Raptors/Pacers season series

[feet85]

-ezz_bee Lost 12 out of 29 series, including 8 sweeps
Tied 12 out of 29 series
Won 5 out of 29 series, including 4 sweeps

You Need To understand that Rudy Gay wasn't there for the majority of these games and he makes a huge difference. I honestly think that we could be a top 6 seed in the East next season with the addition of a proper pg rotation (Deven Harris and Ben Uzoh)

[blackjitsu]

Looks at the Raptors bench...Looks at the Pacers bench...

...No, not seeing it...

[Chr1s1anL]

Looks at the Raptors bench...Looks at the Pacers bench...

...No, not seeing it...

Pacers have terrible bench

[blackjitsu]

Pacers have terrible bench

Looks back at the Raptors bench...
...still not seeing it...

[Chr1s1anL]

Looks back at the Raptors bench...
...still not seeing it...

Raptors had a better bench than Pacers

[hotfuzz]

Don't forget that some teams have a notorious habit of playing to the level of competition in the regular season. Miami is very guilty of this, but that doesn't mean that the teams that barely lost to Miami are close to them.

[The Great One]

Raptors lost a lot of games last season because of poor execution late in the game. And coaching IMO has a lot to do with that.

[ezz_bee]

-ezz_bee Lost 12 out of 29 series, including 8 sweeps
Tied 12 out of 29 series
Won 5 out of 29 series, including 4 sweeps

You Need To understand that Rudy Gay wasn't there for the majority of these games and he makes a huge difference. I honestly think that we could be a top 6 seed in the East next season with the addition of a proper pg rotation (Deven Harris and Ben Uzoh)

Now, I do think that I should point out that I was in favour of the gay trade, he provides more TALENT than what we had before, I still think that talent + mental discipline is what wins championships (but I'm well documented on my philosophy elsewhere)... but let's take a look at how the raps did with Gay...

Atlanta 1 1
Boston 1 2
Brooklyn 1 0
Charlotte 1 1
Chicago 2 0
Cleveland 1 1
Denver 1 0
Detroit 1 1
Golden State 0 1
Indiana 1 1
L.A. Clippers 1 0
L.A. Lakers 0 1
Memphis 0 1
Miami 0 2
Milwaukee 0 2
Minnesota 1 0
New Orleans 1 0
New York 2 2
Phoenix 1 0
Washington 2 2

The over record is better with Gay, as we went 18 & 18, but again I would say that there are as many causes for concern as there are reasons to celebrate.

Even with Gay we still split games with Washington, Cleveland, Charlotte and Detroit AND couldn't beat the bucks in TWO (2) critical games.

As to the bold, I do think we have a shot a the 6th seed next year (athough, I think i'm probably a little more skeptical about that outcome than you) however, the fact that we still need some player development plus minor roster tweaks to get to sixth, only helps to highlight my argument that we are a LONG way from the Pacers, who were considered the top two team in the conference almost all season. Even without their most TALANTED player.

Again, looking at the Pacers specifically, without gay we lost by two(2) and won by (2), with him we won by (2), and lost by twelve(12), so in that specific case you can argue that we a better match up with pacers before the Gay trade.

Now i'll be the first to admit that comparing two teams, using only 4 games, 2 with gay and 2 without gay, just isn't that useful in providing enough info to produce meaningful conclusions, what it does help to do though is reinforce that the hypothesis in the OP, that based on the 4 regular season games between the Raps and Pacers, we can conclude that the raps are similar to the Pacers and aren't far from matching their success, is EQUALLY MEANINGLESS.

Don't forget that some teams have a notorious habit of playing to the level of competition in the regular season. Miami is very guilty of this, but that doesn't mean that the teams that barely lost to Miami are close to them.

100% - and I think that the wins against teams like Indy, New York, and Chicago have to be off set by the losses to Charlotte, Detroit, Washington, and Cleveland, either because Toronto is more talented, but played down to their level, or is in actuality only as talented as those teams. Regardless of the cause (which is debatable) the outcome is the same (and NOT debatable).

Raptors lost a lot of games last season because of poor execution late in the game. And coaching IMO has a lot to do with that.

I'm not ready to throw Casey under the bus just yet, and would be happy to see him coach next season. That said, I do think that Frank Vogel is doing an incredible job coaching, and would definitely that when talking about Vogel and Casey, it has to be more of a contrast, than a compare.

So again, sorry to rain on anyone's parade, but the raps, whether you look at them pre gay post gay, are a tier or 3 below the pacers.

[JawsGT]

Don't forget that some teams have a notorious habit of playing to the level of competition in the regular season. Miami is very guilty of this, but that doesn't mean that the teams that barely lost to Miami are close to them.

Agreed, especially in Miami's case. What I got from many Heat games is that they don't turn it on, or play to their highest potential until the fourth quarter. They seem to be content taking it easy through 3 quarters depending on who they were playing of course, and then just turn up the D in the 4th and take over the game. I'm hypothesizing that this was a deliberate approach given that Miami has alot of confidence in their abilty to win close games or to blow them wide open late.

[ezz_bee]

I Miami's case it may also be about not be to strenuous for Wade, and to a lesser extent lebron and bosh