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Thread: Raptors coaching staff makeover

  1. #121
    Raptors Republic Superstar Bendit's Avatar
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    Great article. Thanks for the link.

    Actually, the article would seem to say you don't need great individual talents to run the Triangle, but you do need to get up and down the floor. The Raps can do that. And they need to spend a lot of time working on it. Some of the Raps can do that.
    Thank you...I thought it was a good piece as well.

    Disclaimer: I am no expert on the triangle nor for that matter anything beyond rudimentary practice of the game. The points which stood out for me (though I am not sure getting up the floor quick was a prime need) :

    1. The system is not in use in the current NBA....there must be reasons
    2. Phil Jackson (with help from Tex Winter) was the last coach to use it ...and be successful with it
    3. PJ had Jordan & Pippen & Rodman and Gasol & Kobe & Odom on his two teams
    4. Had a pretty good supporting cast with players like Paxson and Kerr in Chic and admittedly lesser in LA
    5. Good post play is essential by most in the group
    6. Movement without the ball is a must...and of course attention to detail (location)
    7. Good passing an absolute
    8. These teams took a while before becoming successful practioners (and used experienced bb/high iq players)
    9. Point forward (non traditional pg) ...Kobe, Pippen, Jordan, Odom had the ball in their hands quite a bit and initiated
    10. I think the ref. to the non-reqt of great indiv. talent pertained to the supporting cast in principle and their athleticism but as I noted the players with the ball in their hands most were anything but it seems.

    Seeing as how recent history shows that only 2 teams played this system at a championship level and used some of the best players in history and one coach (and no one else uses it)... gives me pause that in actuality it is a difficult system to perfect and sustain especially with the movement of players from teams in today's NBA.

    Our own "big 3" would be JV, Gay and Lowry. JV is raw and with some post skills and an offensive game still in development. I am not Lowry and Gay are great passers or have post games which stand out either...except in a mismatch. DD is pretty much the same. In a nutshell my own sense says our team as constituted would have trouble.

  2. #122
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    Thank you...I thought it was a good piece as well.

    Disclaimer: I am no expert on the triangle nor for that matter anything beyond rudimentary practice of the game. The points which stood out for me (though I am not sure getting up the floor quick was a prime need) :

    1. The system is not in use in the current NBA....there must be reasons
    2. Phil Jackson (with help from Tex Winter) was the last coach to use it ...and be successful with it
    3. PJ had Jordan & Pippen & Rodman and Gasol & Kobe & Odom on his two teams
    4. Had a pretty good supporting cast with players like Paxson and Kerr in Chic and admittedly lesser in LA
    5. Good post play is essential by most in the group
    6. Movement without the ball is a must...and of course attention to detail (location)
    7. Good passing an absolute
    8. These teams took a while before becoming successful practioners (and used experienced bb/high iq players)
    9. Point forward (non traditional pg) ...Kobe, Pippen, Jordan, Odom had the ball in their hands quite a bit and initiated
    10. I think the ref. to the non-reqt of great indiv. talent pertained to the supporting cast in principle and their athleticism but as I noted the players with the ball in their hands most were anything but it seems.

    Seeing as how recent history shows that only 2 teams played this system at a championship level and used some of the best players in history and one coach (and no one else uses it)... gives me pause that in actuality it is a difficult system to perfect and sustain especially with the movement of players from teams in today's NBA.

    Our own "big 3" would be JV, Gay and Lowry. JV is raw and with some post skills and an offensive game still in development. I am not Lowry and Gay are great passers or have post games which stand out either...except in a mismatch. DD is pretty much the same. In a nutshell my own sense says our team as constituted would have trouble.
    I guess we can all agree Kurt Rambis was not successful with it? lol
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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  3. #123
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    I honestly think we the players they had they could have run ANY offense and had success. Show me an offense that makes a shit team better

  4. #124
    Raptors Republic Superstar Bendit's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I guess we can all agree Kurt Rambis was not successful with it? lol
    Thank you for reminding me of KR. I forgot about him. I now remember how frustrated he got in some q&a/s when the matter came up.

  5. #125
    Raptors Republic Superstar Bendit's Avatar
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    Quote thead wrote: View Post
    I honestly think we the players they had they could have run ANY offense and had success. Show me an offense that makes a shit team better
    Quite true. I suspect however that the triangle offense's best attribute is that it is difficult to defend.

  6. #126
    Raptors Republic Starter jimmie's Avatar
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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    Quite true. I suspect however that the triangle offense's best attribute is that it is difficult to defend.
    The triangle's most challenging aspect is that it is difficult to do well, and requires "smart/high IQ" and also unselfish players who can move the ball quickly and to the right places. I think that's why it takes time to establish it, and why it's not in use by more teams.
    Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

  7. #127
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote jimmie wrote: View Post
    The triangle's most challenging aspect is that it is difficult to do well, and requires "smart/high IQ" and also unselfish players who can move the ball quickly and to the right places. I think that's why it takes time to establish it, and why it's not in use by more teams.
    I would add that it also requires good chemistry, which is hard to develop in this era of high roster turnover.

  8. #128
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Default Picks & Cash

    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    Not that I know of but if there is no rule against it there can be a first time. Pro sports tends use draft picks as penalty/compensation for wrongs committed by orgs. Not the same but the BluJays manager bolted to the RSox in return for a player last year.
    I think it's rare in the NBA but, you're on to something in this case:

    The Clippers, sources said, are willing to surrender cash and multiple draft picks to secure Rivers' services
    Source: ESPN.com

    You called it.

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  10. #129
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Default Casey is officially bizack

    Toronto Raptors President and General Manager, Basketball Operations Masai Ujiri announced Wednesday that Head Coach Dwane Casey will return for the 2013-14 season.

    “I’m excited about moving forward and growing this team with Coach Casey,” said Ujiri.

    Casey is in the final year of a contract extension signed following the 2011-12 campaign.

    An announcement will be made in the future regarding the club’s assistant coaching staff.
    which leads to this...

    from http://blog.raptors.com/a-few-minute...m-masai-ujiri/

    JS: Any updates on the status of head coach Dwane Casey or potential changes to his staff?

    MU: Things are on the move and we’re still going through the process. We’ll figure it out and I know that’s a wide-ranging answer. Things have gone well with Coach, we’ve had tons and tons of meetings, we have dinner tonight [Tuesday] with Rudy Gay, so we’re moving the right way. As those decisions [with assistants] need to be made, we will make them the best way we feel is heading in the right direction for the organization.
    something tells me Casey is going to have a new gaggle of assistants.
    @jerboat

  11. #130
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    which leads to this...

    from http://blog.raptors.com/a-few-minute...m-masai-ujiri/



    something tells me Casey is going to have a new gaggle of assistants.

    Now that Casey is in charge, I hope he gets a clean slate.

    No more front office politics interfering.

    Lets see what you have Casey.

    Go back to year 1 defense and get an assistant in who you can trust to take an active role on the offensive end.... essentially the opposite role he had in Dallas with Carlisle.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  12. #131
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    I've said it before and i'll say it again, bring in Brian Shaw to run the offense, gonna cost you ca$$$$h but hey if that's what it takes, that's what it takes.
    @jerboat

  13. #132
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    I've said it before and i'll say it again, bring in Brian Shaw to run the offense, gonna cost you ca$$$$h but hey if that's what it takes, that's what it takes.
    Woodson is to D'Antoni as Shaw would be to Casey????


    I'd be all for it but it certainly would not help Casey's lame duck status. Might create a bit of a toxic environment too.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  14. #133
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    So happy about this!

  15. #134
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    Default Casey is the coach

    So, it is official - Casey will return to the bench for the beginning of 2013-2014 campaign. Will he finish it remains to be seen. I surely hope so...

    Source:
    http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm

  16. #135
    Raptors Republic Superstar isaacthompson's Avatar
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    Better link: http://blog.raptors.com/press-releas...as-head-coach/

    Toronto Raptors President and General Manager, Basketball Operations Masai Ujiri announced Wednesday that Head Coach Dwane Casey will return for the 2013-14 season.

    “I’m excited about moving forward and growing this team with Coach Casey,” said Ujiri.

    Casey is in the final year of a contract extension signed following the 2011-12 campaign.

    An announcement will be made in the future regarding the club’s assistant coaching staff.
    Regardless, I don't think this should surprise anyone. Ujiri seems to be quite fond of Casey.
    Writer for RaptorsWatch.com

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  17. #136
    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Casey got far too much credit in year one and far too much blame in year 2. He strikes me as an average coach who doesn't make you much better than, nor does he make you much worse, your talent. In other words, he's the same as about 80% of the coaches in the NBA. Unless you're replacing him with someone who is much, much better, I never saw the point of firing him at the moment.

    In Casey's favour, he should have a much better JV, a motivated Lowry (CONTRACT YEAR!), a healthy Rudy Gay and, presumably, Ujiri is going to get the roster some help. Unless, of course, everyone gets traded next week....

  18. #137
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    You left out hopefully no Bargnani Bullshit....

  19. #138
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    A lot of that Bargnani bullshit came from upstairs and BC not wanting to quit on Italian Lebron. Mitchell admitted as much and it was more than evident during this past season

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  21. #139
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    I guess once Jerry Sloan was not available, Masai said, "Ahhhh f*ck it. Dwane you get another year."





    joking
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  22. #140
    Raptors Republic Superstar Bendit's Avatar
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    Casey coming back seemed like the only logical thing to do seeing the team is still in a transitional/evaluation mode. Casey also has a year left so, why not, especially since DC & MU seem to have no major philosophical differences (they had a few meetings I read). MU will also have the opportunity to check him out personally... especially the in game management moves and feel for ebb & flows, time outs and substitutions etc.

    Re an offensive asst coach hire...why not someone from the Nuggets' Karl staff who raved about a few of his coaches as being HC material.

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