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Thread: If the team could stick a high-percentage 3pt shooter into the starting SG spot....

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Default If the team could stick a high-percentage 3pt shooter into the starting SG spot....

    If you believe DD is going to get a 3pt shot or DD and Gay are going to set the league on fire, then what comes next is likely to infuriate you - sorry about that.

    Unfortunately the first paragraph of what follows essentially summarizes why the pairing of DD/Gay is likely to fail. Add to that they are the 1st and 2nd highest paid wings on a team that currently has 71% of its cap devoted to inefficient (Gay, DD) or flawed (post injury Fields) or unproven (Ross) or damaged (Kleiza) players then something has to give. For those still in denial or experiencing anger, remember that a big talking piece for Colangelo was the pairing of DD/Gay - and he is now on the business side of the franchise with his successor just cleaning house of his hirings/holdovers of the last 7 years.

    This bit of a Tim Chisholm article (he has started his own site/blog, be sure to check it out threeinthekey.ca) has been stuck in my head for days - especially the bold sections.

    Really, though, when you are talking about Toronto’s wings what you are really talking about is Rudy Gay and DeMar DeRozan. They eat up 71% of the teams minutes on the wings, eat up 38.2% of the team’s shot attempts per game and together eat up half of the team’s salary cap. Both are high-volume (6th and 10th in FGA per game for swingmen), low-efficiency (120th and 93rd in TS% for swingmen) scorers and neither one is particularly adept at creating good shots for themselves or others. It is very hard to imagine this team succeeding in the long run with these two teamed up on the wings which makes it hard to envision Ujiri maintaining this pairing for any notable length of time.

    If the two are to be split up, it makes the most sense to these eyes to keep Gay and move DeRozan along. Gay is a superior defender to DeRozan, he has shown in the past an ability to hit threes and his contract is half as long as DeRozan’s is, ending in the summer of 2015. Plus, because DeRozan is younger and makes less money per year, he would presumably be the easier of the two to move.

    One of the big reasons to push for a split, though, isn’t about money or efficiency, it’s about shot allocation. Going into next season the team has to find far more shots for Jonas Valanciunas (7.3 FGA per game after the Gay trade) and probably should find more shots for Kyle Lowry (8.4 FGA per game post trade). If you take shot attempts away from DeRozan he won’t give you much in the other areas of the game. Better to explore the market for his services, especially in a summer when so many teams have money to spend on a weak free agent class, than to retain him and simply reduce his role in the structure of the offense. An offense centered around Valanciunas-Gay-Lowry could be potent if balanced right, especially if the team could stick a high-percentage three-point shooter into the starting shooting guard spot. Team them with the ever-improving Amir Johnson and a bench that has actual NBA talent on it and Ujiri may just have the beginnings of an interesting ball club.

    http://threeinthekey.ca/where-to-fir...st-priorities/

    I have read a number of times on these forums from those in favour of sticking with DD and/or DD-Gay pairing the question: well, if DD doesn't start, who does?

    To that I provide this list of possibilities.

    In house:
    Fields
    Ross

    Both have flaws and question marks. Anyone saying those guys can't or shouldn't start have a sound foundation because they both have their own advantages and disadvantages with both relying on the promise of one thing or another (Fields return to health, Ross developing).


    Out source:
    Kyle Korver (free agent)
    Jared Dudley (trade block)
    Mike Dunleavy (free agent)
    JJ Redick (free agent)
    Willie Green (non-guaranteed)
    Kevin Martin (free agent)


    Before the expected negative responses, please look at this and do the following, sort by:

    1) WP48
    2) PoP48
    3) Wins
    4) 3pt%
    5) eFG%
    6) TS%
    7) PPS (while you can't sort it you can get the idea pretty quick)

    If you did 1 through 7 above, a common theme likely emerged. With the exception of WP48 (Fields was 3rd), PoP48 (Fields was 3rd), Wins (Green was 8th in just over 1/3 the minutes of DD *3.4 vs 2.0*), and PPS (DD 6th with 1.21 and Green 7th with 1.17) the Raptors players were in the bottom 3 for nearly every category.


    The reality is all of these players are better suited to start at SG than DD (only question for me is Dunleavy). With only the MLE to offer, Redick and Martin are likely not attainable without sign and trades (and getting player and 2 teams to agree is unlikely). The two players I would target are Dudley and Korver.

    If Ross develops, great, you can move one of these guys to the bench. If Landry gets his shot back, great, you can move one of these guys to the bench. Or you could keep starting one of these guys. Either way you just solidified a weak bench.


    What is the point of this? No, it is not to infuriate DD's fans. The point is to highlight Tim Chisholm's bold in the final paragraph while also highlighting there are a few players available (and possibly easily attainable) who fit much better than DeRozan, likely coming at much less cost.

    The reality is this roster was built around and for Bargnani. It is why DD was selected in 2009 - his shooting, or lack thereof, was not a concern because Bargnani balanced him on the court. Unless you have a stretch 4 who can hit 3s consistently, you can't continue on with DD starting at SG. I think the odds of getting a stretch 4 who can hit 3s is much less likely than getting one of the players I listed above.


    **Other than Dudley, I did not even look in to other possible trades nor did I look at the draft. I tried to stick to free agency as much as possible to keep the possible replacements as real as possible.**
    Last edited by mcHAPPY; Mon Jun 3rd, 2013 at 07:49 PM.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Sign Redick if possible, trade DeRozan + Bargnani for a big. Or, move Fields into starting lineup, bring DeRozan in off the bench as the sixth man with the green light to strengthen the bench without any moves.

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    Raptors Republic Starter OzRapFan's Avatar
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    I like Demar but I agree he should be used as trade fodder with Bargs because his skilled are now redundant somewhat , we need a 2 who can defend and hit the corner .

    If Fields can find his shot he would be perfect for the job, if not a cheap young guy like Iman Shumpert comes to mind or a cheap vet like Kelenna Azubuike

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    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote OzRapFan wrote: View Post
    I like Demar but I agree he should be used as trade fodder with Bargs because his skilled are now redundant somewhat , we need a 2 who can defend and hit the corner .

    If Fields can find his shot he would be perfect for the job, if not a cheap young guy like Iman Shumpert comes to mind or a cheap vet like Kelenna Azubuike
    New York isn't going to consider letting go of Shumpert.

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    You could probably sign and trade JJ for Demar straight, so why would you add Demar to a Bargnani trade? Haven't we already had that argument in every other thread? Trade Demar? You're better off trading Demar separate from Bargs. I want to see what's gotten for Bargs, not a fan, but really there's only 2 of those guys I'm interested in: JJ, and Martin. You guys hate Demar's defense? Only Dudley and Green are as good/better than Demar on that end. JJ doesn't screw up, the rest of them...good luck with that.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    If you believe DD is going to get a 3pt shot or DD and Gay are going to set the league on fire, then what comes next is likely to infuriate you - sorry about that.

    Unfortunately the first paragraph of what follows essentially summarizes why the pairing of DD/Gay is likely to fail. Add to that they are the 1st and 2nd highest paid wings on a team that currently has 71% of its cap devoted to inefficient (Gay, DD) or flawed (post injury Fields) or unproven (Ross) or damaged (Kleiza) players then something has to give. For those still in denial or experiencing anger, remember that a big talking piece for Colangelo was the pairing of DD/Gay - and he is now on the business side of the franchise with his successor just cleaning house of his hirings/holdovers of the last 7 years.

    This bit of a Tim Chisholm article (he has started his own site/blog, be sure to check it out threeinthekey.ca) has been stuck in my head for days - especially the bold sections.




    I have read a number of times on these forums from those in favour of sticking with DD and/or DD-Gay pairing the question: well, if DD doesn't start, who does?

    To that I provide this list of possibilities.

    In house:
    Fields
    Ross

    Both have flaws and question marks. Anyone saying those guys can't or shouldn't start have a sound foundation because they both have their own advantages and disadvantages with both relying on the promise of one thing or another (Fields return to health, Ross developing).


    Out source:
    Kyle Korver (free agent)
    Jared Dudley (trade block)
    Mike Dunleavy (free agent)
    JJ Redick (free agent)
    Willie Green (non-guaranteed)
    Kevin Martin (free agent)


    Before the expected negative responses, please look at this and do the following, sort by:

    1) WP48
    2) PoP48
    3) Wins
    4) 3pt%
    5) eFG%
    6) TS%
    7) PPS (while you can't sort it you can get the idea pretty quick)

    If you did 1 through 7 above, a common theme likely emerged. With the exception of WP48 (Fields was 3rd), PoP48 (Fields was 3rd), Wins (Green was 8th in just over 1/3 the minutes of DD *3.4 vs 2.0*), and PPS (DD 6th with 1.21 and Green 7th with 1.17) the Raptors players were in the bottom 3 for nearly every category.


    The reality is all of these players are better suited to start at SG than DD (only question for me is Dunleavy). With only the MLE to offer, Redick and Martin are likely not attainable without sign and trades (and getting player and 2 teams to agree is unlikely). The two players I would target are Dudley and Korver.

    If Ross develops, great, you can move one of these guys to the bench. If Landry gets his shot back, great, you can move one of these guys to the bench. Or you could keep starting one of these guys. Either way you just solidified a weak bench.


    What is the point of this? No, it is not to infuriate DD's fans. The point is to highlight Tim Chisholm's bold in the final paragraph while also highlighting there are a few players available (and possibly easily attainable) who fit much better than DeRozan, likely coming at much less cost.

    The reality is this roster was built around and for Bargnani. It is why DD was selected in 2009 - his shooting, or lack thereof, was not a concern because Bargnani balanced him on the court. Unless you have a stretch 4 who can hit 3s consistently, you can't continue on with DD starting at SG. I think the odds of getting a stretch 4 who can hit 3s is much less likely than getting one of the players I listed above.


    **Other than Dudley, I did not even look in to other possible trades nor did I look at the draft. I tried to stick to free agency as much as possible to keep the possible replacements as real as possible.**
    All these dudes are worst defenders than DD. I've said before I don't care about the offensive. All I care about is the defense. Post trade that starting line up top10 in defense. If they can play D than that takes way from their offensive problem. People making it seem like are offensive was terrible after the trade. If remember it was still pretty good after the trade. The D needs to step up. That staring line up was starting to show defensive chemistry. The offense will take care of it self. You guys are worrying about the wrong side of the ball.

    People on this forum always talk about how Rudy help DD get better looks but never vice versa. If you check post trade Rudy's the one who efficiency numbers went up. Came to Toronto shooting .411 FG. Ended with .435 FG. Haven't we seen this show before in Memphis with Rudy being the only wing scoring option in a starting lineup? How did that workout the last couple of years in Memphis.

    I'm going to stick to my story. Unless you get back a proven capable starting PF back. You do not trade DD. Procductive wing players don't fall out the sky guys

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    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    Derozan for Paul Milsap
    (Utah would pull it in a heart beat)

    Bargnani for Ben Gordon
    (rumored earlier in the year)

    Sign Jarrat Jack/Nate Robinson in Free Agency with MLE

    Lowry/Jack
    Gordon/Ross
    Gay/Fields
    Milsap/ Amir
    Val

    Gordon is a +40% 3pt shooter, with an expiring 13 Mil contract.
    By next season, hopefully we can know if Ross is capable of starting, and then shed 13 Mil for free agency in 2014!
    Paul Milsap can do everything INCLUDING hit the 3. He would compliment Gay and Val very well.
    The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

  8. #8
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    All these dudes are worst defenders than DD. I've said before I don't care about the offensive. All I care about is the defense. Post trade that starting line up top10 in defense. If they can play D than that takes way from their offensive problem. People making it seem like are offensive was terrible after the trade. If remember it was still pretty good after the trade. The D needs to step up. That staring line up was starting to show defensive chemistry. The offense will take care of it self. You guys are worrying about the wrong side of the ball.

    People on this forum always talk about how Rudy help DD get better looks but never vice versa. If you check post trade Rudy's the one who efficiency numbers went up. Came to Toronto shooting .411 FG. Ended with .435 FG. Haven't we seen this show before in Memphis with Rudy being the only wing scoring option in a starting lineup? How did that workout the last couple of years in Memphis.

    I'm going to stick to my story. Unless you get back a proven capable starting PF back. You do not trade DD. Procductive wing players don't fall out the sky guys
    Bold 1: It is with a grain of salt taken to compare Off/DefRtgs across different teams but for shits and giggles:

    Player/OffRtg/DefRtg/Net (all stats from stat.nba.com)

    DD/102.0/104.3/-2.4
    Korver/105.7/101.3/+4.4
    Dudley/99.2/103.4/-4.2
    Dunleavy/102.9/101.8/+1.0
    Redick/104.4/106.4/-2.0
    Green/107.4/103.0/+4.4
    Martin/112.7/101.0/+11.6

    With the exception of Redick, all these guys have a better DefRtg. I can't say with certainty about the other players, but we know DD is never asked to guard the other teams best perimeter threat.

    On/Off net might also give an indicator of value added (again, grain of salt needed but it helps give an indication):

    Player/On/Off/Net (all stats from 82games.com)

    DD/-1.8/-0.4/-1.4
    Korver/+4.2/-4.6/+8.8
    Dudley/-2.8/-10.8/+8.0
    Dunleavy/+2.3/-5.2/+7.5
    Redick/+0.2/-1.9/+2.2
    Green/+3.7/+7.6/-3.9
    Martin/+9.8/+8.4/+1.4

    Except Green and DD, all players were net positive on the court. Again take the grain of salt but it is interesting.

    Bold 2: It was pretty bad. From February 1st on they were 21st in offensive rating.

    Bold 3: Tony Allen was his starting wing mate in Memphis who shot 12.5% from 3 and had a PPS of 1.11. A deep threat would open things much more for Gay, in my opinion, not allowing teams to jam the paint/lanes.

    Bold 4: Every player I listed is more productive and/or more efficient than DeRozan and they could come anywhere from 40 to 80% less than DD.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    I'd love to move either one of the wings for a 3 point shooter, and it makes sense that Demar should be the one to be traded since he's not as talented as Gay, but none of the players on the list are starters imo. I would rather go after someone like Gordon Hayward or even Alec Burks from Utah to replace DeMar. There has to be someone else on the team that can help carry the offense when Gay is struggling or defenses are focusing on him. I don't think JV is there yet and Lowry is so inconsistent.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    I'd love to move either one of the wings for a 3 point shooter, and it makes sense that Demar should be the one to be traded since he's not as talented as Gay, but none of the players on the list are starters imo. I would rather go after someone like Gordon Hayward or even Alec Burks from Utah to replace DeMar. There has to be someone else on the team that can help carry the offense when Gay is struggling or defenses are focusing on him. I don't think JV is there yet and Lowry is so inconsistent.
    The problem is those guys are under contract (like Dudley) but may not be available. If we were choosing who we want, I'd be going after Danny Green or Wesley Matthews or Sefolosha.

    As for starting:

    Hayward started 27 of 72 (29mpg)
    Korver 60 of 74 (30mpg)
    Dudley 50 of 79 (28mpg)
    Dunleavy 3 of 75 (26mpg)
    Redick 13 of 78 (30mpg)
    Green 60 of 72 (17mpg)
    Martin 0 of 77 (28mpg)

    SG is such a weak spot in the NBA right now.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    The problem is those guys are under contract (like Dudley) but may not be available. If we were choosing who we want, I'd be going after Danny Green or Wesley Matthews or Sefolosha.

    As for starting:

    Hayward started 27 of 72 (29mpg)
    Korver 60 of 74 (30mpg)
    Dudley 50 of 79 (28mpg)
    Dunleavy 3 of 75 (26mpg)
    Redick 13 of 78 (30mpg)
    Green 60 of 72 (17mpg)
    Martin 0 of 77 (28mpg)

    SG is such a weak spot in the NBA right now.
    That's an interesting statement and I wonder if it played a part in DeMar's new contract. Is he perceived as a bright spot at that position around the league?

    But back to the thread....I think on an even playing feild any trade involving Demar and either of the players on the list straight up is one sided for the team that gets DeMar. Since none of those guys with maybe Martin as the exception is a starter I would hold onto DeMar and look to trade for someone with atleast the potential to be a decent starter. Gay just hasn't shown that he can be a guy that can consistently carry a team, so replacing DD with any of the guys from the list just weakens the team imo.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    That's an interesting statement and I wonder if it played a part in DeMar's new contract. Is he perceived as a bright spot at that position around the league?
    I would say no. I think it is another case of Colangelo over valuing his own assets or over estimating market value.

    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    But back to the thread....I think on an even playing feild any trade involving Demar and either of the players on the list straight up is one sided for the team that gets DeMar. Since none of those guys with maybe Martin as the exception is a starter I would hold onto DeMar and look to trade for someone with atleast the potential to be a decent starter. Gay just hasn't shown that he can be a guy that can consistently carry a team, so replacing DD with any of the guys from the list just weakens the team imo.
    Don't forget the part from the Chisholm article:

    An offense centered around Valanciunas-Gay-Lowry could be potent if balanced right, especially if the team could stick a high-percentage three-point shooter into the starting shooting guard spot.
    These guys are all situational/role players. The Raptors need to inject balance and efficiency in to their starting lineup.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    Basketball has clear winners every night --
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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Would the Blazers entertain offers for Matthews? I like Redick but he's not starter material in my opinion, but is an excellent bench player.

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    Raptors Republic Starter special1's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    That's an interesting statement and I wonder if it played a part in DeMar's new contract. Is he perceived as a bright spot at that position around the league?

    But back to the thread....I think on an even playing feild any trade involving Demar and either of the players on the list straight up is one sided for the team that gets DeMar. Since none of those guys with maybe Martin as the exception is a starter I would hold onto DeMar and look to trade for someone with atleast the potential to be a decent starter. Gay just hasn't shown that he can be a guy that can consistently carry a team, so replacing DD with any of the guys from the list just weakens the team imo.

    The bold sums up my opinion on this thread......

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    If Phoenix would do a Bargnani for Scola and Dudley, I'm all for it.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    That would be like Christmas, your birthday and your income tax refund all landing on the same day.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote special1 wrote: View Post
    The bold sums up my opinion on this thread......


    Who is to say DeMar is traded for any of these players? The reason why I went with these players is because they are all easily attainable assuming they wish to play in Toronto (minus Dudley as he is with another team and Martin will likely cost too much).

    Your best five is often not the best five players.

    The Raptors are a collection of pieces that don't fit together... like Pete Rose:

    Last edited by mcHAPPY; Tue Jun 4th, 2013 at 12:01 PM.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    Raptors Republic Starter special1's Avatar
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    I'm sorry but they players MATT52 listed above are good shooters, but so was Jason Kapono...... Willie Green?? Are you serious? Please tell me you meant Danny or Jeff. Demar is currently/will be better than ALL of the players you listed above. It's nice when you get to play on the Clippers, Hawks, Thunder.....I wonder how these guys will look playing for the Raptors. Sure MAYBE they may make good fits (debateable)....BUT Do you really expect the Raptors to compete for a championship next year Matt52??

    What makes you think anyone of those players won't walk when they become free agents?? Do they even want to play in Toronto?? LOL Thats the part that gets me with these posters always throwing around DD's name in trades.

    Is DD the only good player on this team??
    Is he really the ONLY way we can improve our roster?

    I would argue that he's our best asset for a reason!! He has a mix of youth/potential/work ethic/scoring ability that NO ONE ELSE on our team has. If he's as horrible as MATT52 makes him out to be - WHY on earth would anyone else want DD??

    Please keep in mind that MATT52 was begging for the Rudy Gay trade (a guy that's basically a DD clone (with length) and costs twice as much.....lol The Collangelo school of team building at its best.....rash/quick decisions and constant turnover.

    Why on earth would we trade our best player (debateable) for older bench players / role players??? LOL

    Matt52 - If you want to impress me....PLEASE come up with trade scenarios for Bargnani, Fields, Kleiza or even Rudy Gay. That would be very interesting to see. ANY scenario where DD goes and the guys above are still around with a few bench players added would be unacceptable.

    If Fields is as good as you think he is, why can't he fetch us a decent role player or two? Isn't he healed now?

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote special1 wrote: View Post
    I'm sorry but they players MATT52 listed above are good shooters, but so was Jason Kapono...... Willie Green?? Are you serious? Please tell me you meant Danny or Jeff. Demar is currently/will be better than ALL of the players you listed above. It's nice when you get to play on the Clippers, Hawks, Thunder.....I wonder how these guys will look playing for the Raptors. Sure MAYBE they may make good fits (debateable)....BUT Do you really expect the Raptors to compete for a championship next year Matt52??

    What makes you think anyone of those players won't walk when they become free agents?? Do they even want to play in Toronto?? LOL Thats the part that gets me with these posters always throwing around DD's name in trades.

    Is DD the only good player on this team??
    Is he really the ONLY way we can improve our roster?

    I would argue that he's our best asset for a reason!! He has a mix of youth/potential/work ethic/scoring ability that NO ONE ELSE on our team has. If he's as horrible as MATT52 makes him out to be - WHY on earth would anyone else want DD??

    Please keep in mind that MATT52 was begging for the Rudy Gay trade (a guy that's basically a DD clone (with length) and costs twice as much.....lol The Collangelo school of team building at its best.....rash/quick decisions and constant turnover.

    Why on earth would we trade our best player (debateable) for older bench players / role players??? LOL

    Matt52 - If you want to impress me....PLEASE come up with trade scenarios for Bargnani, Fields, Kleiza or even Rudy Gay. That would be very interesting to see. ANY scenario where DD goes and the guys above are still around with a few bench players added would be unacceptable.

    If Fields is as good as you think he is, why can't he fetch us a decent role player or two? Isn't he healed now?
    First, I don't think Matt was suggesting that the only roster move should be a straight-up trade of DeRozan for one of the players he listed. My assumption was that one of those players would be a decent replacement, should DeRozan wind up being traded (to address another need).

    Second, I think Matt (and others) are discussing DeRozan trades because DeRozan is likely the best trade asset the Raptors have, at least in terms of perceived value from other teams. Nobody is saying that he is the top priority to be traded in terms of value to the Raptors. Discussion of trades for Bargnani has been extremely well covered and the main reason why guys like Fields/Kleiza/Gay have not been discussed is because they're likely highly untradeable (exact opposite case of DeRozan) and we have no idea what their trade value might be (whereas most DeRozan scenarios have him being traded for all-star or at least near all-star level talent).

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote special1 wrote: View Post
    I'm sorry but they players MATT52 listed above are good shooters, but so was Jason Kapono...... Willie Green?? Are you serious? Please tell me you meant Danny or Jeff. Demar is currently/will be better than ALL of the players you listed above. It's nice when you get to play on the Clippers, Hawks, Thunder.....I wonder how these guys will look playing for the Raptors. Sure MAYBE they may make good fits (debateable)....BUT Do you really expect the Raptors to compete for a championship next year Matt52??

    What makes you think anyone of those players won't walk when they become free agents?? Do they even want to play in Toronto?? LOL Thats the part that gets me with these posters always throwing around DD's name in trades.

    Is DD the only good player on this team??
    Is he really the ONLY way we can improve our roster?

    I would argue that he's our best asset for a reason!! He has a mix of youth/potential/work ethic/scoring ability that NO ONE ELSE on our team has. If he's as horrible as MATT52 makes him out to be - WHY on earth would anyone else want DD??

    Please keep in mind that MATT52 was begging for the Rudy Gay trade (a guy that's basically a DD clone (with length) and costs twice as much.....lol The Collangelo school of team building at its best.....rash/quick decisions and constant turnover.

    Why on earth would we trade our best player (debateable) for older bench players / role players??? LOL

    Matt52 - If you want to impress me....PLEASE come up with trade scenarios for Bargnani, Fields, Kleiza or even Rudy Gay. That would be very interesting to see. ANY scenario where DD goes and the guys above are still around with a few bench players added would be unacceptable.

    If Fields is as good as you think he is, why can't he fetch us a decent role player or two? Isn't he healed now?

    You cra cra

    All of your questions have been answered before and it is clear you are not reading my posts based on a number of the questions. I've put a lot of trade scenarios up for a lot of different players.

    What makes you so emotional towards DeRozan?
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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