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Thread: Does anyone know who Warren LeGarie is?

  1. #1
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    Default Does anyone know who Warren LeGarie is?

    Was listening to today's segment on the McCown show on Fan590 with ex Raptor coach Butch Carter and the discussion turned to George Karl and the Raptors troubles. Included in this was the LeGarie name who happens to be one of the more powerful agents of coaches and management personnel in the NBA.

    And then I was floored...LeGarie apparently is/was agent for 11 management and coaching employees of the Raptors this past season. This would include BC, Stefanski, Casey and all his coaches. For those into conspiracy possibilities and conflict of interest situations in decision making on all basketball matters....take it away!!

    Is this healthy? Can there be honest disagreement among these employees? Could there be decisions made that were of the back scratching variety and ultimately not in the best interests of the Raptors? I thought I'd put this out there and include a relatively old (2010) piece by Peter Vecsey (not one I particularly care for) who has an illuminating view of LeGarie's style. The radio segment might be available on the Sportsnet site later if anyone wants to listen.

    http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/nets/...78nbCES72MvHDM

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    And then I was floored...LeGarie apparently is/was agent for 11 management and coaching employees of the Raptors this past season. This would include BC, Stefanski, Casey and all his coaches. For those into conspiracy possibilities and conflict of interest situations in decision making on all basketball matters....take it away!!
    Oh come on, all they want is a New Basketball Order.

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    Raptors Republic Starter phez's Avatar
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    i was listening to this too.

    at first i was like OMG ALIENS. but then i was like, i really have no idea what this actually means for the roster.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Clean house.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Quote phez wrote: View Post
    i was listening to this too.

    at first i was like OMG ALIENS. but then i was like, i really have no idea what this actually means for the roster.
    I'd rather stay away from the conspiracies. My initial thoughts are...BC was a client who then hires Casey (was this his first choice?), Casey then gets hires other clients to fill out his staff (was this on the agency's wishes to keep their stable employed?), how about playing certain players instead of others because of a quid pro quo if the LeGarie agency has a relationship with another allied player agency. One needs only take the total # of front office personnel and scouts and extrapolate the number 11 in terms of a percentage. Who is really running the team...not because BC is corrupt but pressures are brought to bear thru subtle and not so subtle suggestions down the food chain of stable mates. Did BC pay Stefanski more than the market rate? This is fundamentally unhealthy in my view purely in terms of good management practices.
    Last edited by Bendit; Thu Jun 6th, 2013 at 06:27 PM.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star tucas's Avatar
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    I read an article somewhere saying that 90% of the nba were with 7 different agents. If the same thing were true with management and coaches I wouldn't be surprised. I imagine if you look at teams 5 or 6 players could all have the same agent. Same thing could be true with coaching/management.

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    Is Casey really a BC guy? Defense? Hard work? Pounding rocks? I don't think these are part of a conspiracy, but if BC was stumped on how to right the ship, maybe he went to his manager for advice? It was alarming to hear. Gotta love Butch. When he's not trying to get a job, he's starting up conspiracies.

    The thing that interested me was that the player he thinks with the worst contract not named Bargnani is Fields NOT Demar. Made a lot of sense. IF MU sees the team the same way Butch does, and the bench needs to get younger, jettisoning LF so that Ross can become the 6th man will be a telling step.

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    It is unfortunate about LF's elbow troubles. Looks like BC and his guys did not do adequate due diligence on his troubles which I gather he had begin in NY. That said BC then compounded it with the contract. I was a LF fan when he first started with the Knicks...just the way he played as a rookie and team guy out and out. But if the surgery does not take Butch is of course absolutely right. He is also correct in that Ross needs playing time and/or defined role to show whether he has the goods to stay. He certainly did not show it last season but we was yin-yanged. It's going to be interesting to see how MU goes about recontructing the team. I do find Butch has a good mind on the game & business of basketball.

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    Quote tucas wrote: View Post
    I read an article somewhere saying that 90% of the nba were with 7 different agents. If the same thing were true with management and coaches I wouldn't be surprised. I imagine if you look at teams 5 or 6 players could all have the same agent. Same thing could be true with coaching/management.
    I was of course quite aware of the player/agent dynamic and its the same in all sports...agencies build stables with as many stars as possible but I was unaware of the similarity on the management side. I feel though there is a difference. If for example all 3 point guards on an NBA team were with a single agent there would still be a compete level between the 3 to be top dog (starting pg eg.). If however the coaching staff had a coaching disagreement among the assts or even with the HC how would this be handled considering there is no measuring metric brought about by play competition as with players. This might be swept under because of the agency affiliation and in my view not in the best interests of the team. The problem here of course is that BC, Stefanski, Casey and all his staff are with the same agent. This is odd.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Well, they just fired Stefanski and Colangelo, so there's that.

    After Butch Carter started suing players I found it hard to take him seriously. He's a great interview but he's a bit of a nut.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star ezz_bee's Avatar
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    Agents work for their CLIENTS... not the other way around. Yes, agent could say to GM who is his CLIENT, you should look at so and so to be your next head coach. The onus of due diligence is still on the GM.

    Is their a potential conflict of interest by a gm and coach who have the same agent? ABSOLUTELY, does this have an affect on what happens on the court? I don't see how.

    Let's say for a moment that your a head coach, (Like george karl) and your agent (who isn't your boss) tells you to play Javale McGee. What do you do?

    Well what did Karl (reportedly do) when he was told to play Javale McGee by MGMT/Owners (WHO ARE DEFINITELY his boss) of the nuggets? He DIDN'T play McGee. If Karl isn't afraid to stand up to his boss, I doubt that he'd succumb to the pressure of his agent.

    But again, what would you do if you were a Head coach and your agent gave you an ultimatum. Play player X a certain amount of minutes, or I'll no longer represent you in contract negotiations. I'm pretty sure I'd say something along the lines of, "well I'm sure there's AT LEAST 7 other agencies who would LOVE to get a cut of my salary, WITHOUT trying to dictate how I do my job, so don't worry about it. Because your fired, now get the F*CK out of my gym.

    I can definitely see GMs pressuring coaches to play certain players, either to develop them or raise their stock so they can be traded. But coaches are a VERY protective bunch and as a group do not like outsiders telling them how to do their job... for example see

    Coangelo-Mitchell-Bargnani
    Nuggets-Karl-McGee
    Hollins-Hollinger


    There's no conspiracy theory here. In the GM Coach relationship the agent is financially incentivized to get the coach the max amount of money. Because the amount a coach makes does not have a direct and inversely proportional relationship to what a gm makes, his allegiance is pretty clear, get the coach the most money.

    Now when her represents the gm with the owners or the board or whoever, he's incentivized financially to get the GM the maximum amount possible.

    Even if these two negotiations are happening at the same time (ie Denver now needs a new head coach AND a new GM) the contract negotiations for both are COMPLETELY separate.

    The only downside I see, is that the Agent can say to the GM, I got you a lot of money, and I'm going to get you a lot more for you next contract negotiation, so give this guy what we're asking for.

    Now the GM has to stay within certain limits as denoted by board/owner/budget, but let's say the GM does inflate the coaches contract? Who loses out? The owners. It doesn't affect the play on the court.

    Now, let's say the same thing happens with a player.

    Let's assume that Coangelo, Derozan, Bargnani, and Fields all belong to the agent. Let's also assume that the agent of all these players pressured coangelo to meet his ask. Does this affect the play on the court? OF course, having a lot of salary tied up in contracts are not valuable puts you at a disadvantage vs. teams that don't do that.

    But what's the outcome?

    The GM gets fired. Any coach or GM who is pressured by their agent to make decisions that adversely affect on court production become a serious risk of getting fired. Any coach or GM who doesn't make what he believes to be the best basket-ball decisions, is probably with out a job pretty quickly, since there's evidence that a lot of gms and coaches get fired for not producing even though they are trying to make the best basketball decisions.


    I just don't see there being a lot of change caused by agents and in the case that the agents do have influence that influence is probably going to be corrected relatively quickly. (Within a couple of years or so).

    EDIT: 11 also sounds like a big number, but how many people at MLSE fit into that category? 15, 20, 100?
    Last edited by ezz_bee; Fri Jun 7th, 2013 at 05:25 AM.
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