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If the team could stick a high-percentage 3pt shooter into the starting SG spot....

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  • #76
    special1 wrote: View Post
    I really wish you adopted this philosophy after year 6 with Bargnani.....lol... You must have some hurt left over - your reasoning are starting to sound like we're still talking about Bargnani!!

    Hard work = Nothing in Matt's world. You can't improve after year 4 in Matt's world. Gotcha. I used to think you were optomistic.....now I wonder if you have a personal hate on for DD. I hope you don't jump back on the DD bandwagon when he proves you wrong. Just continue to wear egg on your face dude.
    Better late than never on Bargnani and I have no hate for DeRozan.

    special1 you have just lived up to your handle.

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    • #77
      special1 wrote: View Post
      I really wish you adopted this philosophy after year 6 with Bargnani.....lol... You must have some hurt left over - your reasoning are starting to sound like we're still talking about Bargnani!!

      Hard work = Nothing in Matt's world. You can't improve after year 4 in Matt's world. Gotcha. I used to think you were optomistic.....now I wonder if you have a personal hate on for DD. I hope you don't jump back on the DD bandwagon when he proves you wrong. Just continue to wear egg on your face dude.
      Just to add to my previous reply to this. I assume the angst from special1 have stemmed from the comment where I said it would be impossible for DD to average 16pts, 5.5rebs, 4.0ast, and 2stl.

      Here is a challenge *no pun intended* to special1 (or anyone else):

      Can anyone find a player in the history of the NBA who after 3 straight seasons of averaging over 35minutes per game (34.8, 35.0, 36.7) has increased their:

      rebounds by 41% (3.9 to 5.5)?
      assists by 60% (2.5 to 4.0)?
      steals 122% (0.9 to 2.0)?



      My views on DD has nothing to do with hate. There is nothing personal against DD. If you want to talk about how he can become a more efficient scorer, I can at least get behind that argument. However, if you want to talk about increasing by the percentages I have listed above, I am sorry, that is impossible in my opinion when he is already averaging 36.7 minutes per game.

      Comment


      • #78
        CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
        1st bold - we've given him 4 seasons, 3 of which he was a primary scorer (this sounds like the Bargnani debate all over again)

        2nd bold - we'd be left with an improved/experienced JV, a healthy KL who should be allowed to play his natural attack style game more often, PLUS an upgraded starting PF who should have a more refined offensive game than AJ and an ability to draw double-teams, PLUS whoever the starting SG is (be it a glue guy like a healthy/improved Fields, an improved Ross or a TBD player). Your analysis of a DeRozan-less starting lineup was definitely incomplete... your DeRozan-bias missed half the non-RG starting lineup!!!
        Well if it isn't the 3 usual suspects.....Nilanka, Matt52, CalgaryRapsFan

        You guys will never give up huh? I'm fairly confident that you will not get your way again. Thanks for convincing half the republic that Rudy Gay was a great acquisition. NOW you say we should trade DD because Rudy does the EXACT (fairly close in my books) same things BUT is WAAYYYY overpaid.

        LOL - I must say that i do get a laugh out of your persistent hate. How many ways can you go about explaining to the rest of us why we should be happy to trade our (paraphrasing your words to get to the point) Shitty but somehow top 2/3 player on our team in Demar Derozan.

        All of a sudden he (OVERPAID as you all claim) is our best asset. Hmmmm..... amazing. He is overpaid, he sucks at everything, even inefficient.....yet he's our best asset.

        Your trade scenarios put us on a treadmill. I have yet to see an actual trade scenario that makes us better. The moment i see Landry Fields starting (without seeing an improved 3 point shot) I start to laugh all over again. Remember your major knock on DD is his 3 point shot.....yet LF can't shoot 3's or is scared to. WOW

        I'm starting to think you want DD out of here soooooo bad because your EGOS couldn't handle it if you were to be proven wrong. Its the only rational reason. Think about it. The most reasonable thing to do is trade Rudy Gay of the two. He's more talented (as you all say).....He's taller, Longer, and a better 3 point shooter (over his career). Yes, he's paid more.... BUT there are other teams who could afford him (do i really have to list reasons why a team would take Rudy for 2 more years?).

        If we're looking to save cap room and maybe rebuild......wouldn't it make more sense to keep the smaller more cap friendly contract????? I call it the BC spin.....explain to us again why it makes more sense to pay 18 million per year instead of 9.5 million per year on ONE player......

        Shouldn't we at least explore possible trades instead of throwing up our hands in the air and saying DD must go?? Obviously, I didn't agree much with you guys BEFORE Rudy came along, BUT now .....

        I'm actually okay with seeing how DD and RG play together for at least 1/2 of the upcoming season without making any drastic changes.
        Last edited by special1; Wed Jun 5, 2013, 06:41 PM.

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        • #79
          Matt52 wrote: View Post
          Better late than never on Bargnani and I have no hate for DeRozan.

          special1 you have just lived up to your handle.

          Thank you Matt52!..... I rarely take your insults to heart. After all you supported Bryan Collangelo and Bargnani up until the 7th year......then all of a sudden you changed like you had a split personality. Maybe you should change your name to special one for hanging in so long....lol

          I mean after 4 years your shitting on DD (who by the way plays an entirely different position than Bargnani) and isn't NEARLY as useless (I mean didnt Demar average more rebounds, assists and FG% than AB - last year?? Also, for their careers DD shoots a higher FG% than Bargs - a freaking 7 footer!!

          Honestly, it's your fault for putting so much faith in the guy. Even a "special one" could see that you can't go all in with this guy. You should probably just let it go......don't take out your mistakes/frustrations on DD. They are not the same dude.
          Last edited by special1; Wed Jun 5, 2013, 06:46 PM. Reason: fixed some errors....changed some ish

          Comment


          • #80
            special1 wrote: View Post
            Thank you Matt52!..... I rarely take your insults to heart. After all you supported Bryan Collangelo and Bargnani up until the 7th year......then all of a sudden you changed like you had a split personality. Maybe you should change your name to special one for hanging in so long....lol

            I mean after 4 years your shitting on DD (who by the way plays an entirely different position than Bargnani) and isn't NEARLY as useless (I mean didnt Demar average more rebounds, assists and FG% than AB - last year and for their careers)??
            As circumstances change, so do opinions.

            For example: I thought you were worth the time conversing with. That has now changed.

            Comment


            • #81
              Matt52 wrote: View Post
              As circumstances change, so do opinions.

              For example: I thought you were worth the time conversing with. That has now changed.
              So mature.....you sound like a cry baby. Go away then. Obviously you only converse with others who agree with you.

              Comment


              • #82
                CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                1st bold - we've given him 4 seasons, 3 of which he was a primary scorer (this sounds like the Bargnani debate all over again)

                2nd bold - we'd be left with an improved/experienced JV, a healthy KL who should be allowed to play his natural attack style game more often, PLUS an upgraded starting PF who should have a more refined offensive game than AJ and an ability to draw double-teams, PLUS whoever the starting SG is (be it a glue guy like a healthy/improved Fields, an improved Ross or a TBD player). Your analysis of a DeRozan-less starting lineup was definitely incomplete... your DeRozan-bias missed half the non-RG starting lineup!!!
                Man, I said this before, before we even discuss letting the bench handle some of the scoring duties maybe we should get a decent bench group together before we start messing around with the starting line-up. That's what I think. Why should we change the starting line-up when our team would probably be pretty damn good if we had better guys on the bench than Lucas, Telfaire, Anderson, Landry, Acy and Gray? That's a fucking terrible bench.
                You come at the King, you best not miss.

                Comment


                • #83
                  How many times this season did our bench come in the game and dig themselves a hole that they would have to climb out of for the rest of the game? Too many.
                  You come at the King, you best not miss.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Im a huge DeRozan fan but im a raptor fan first. Derozan was never a first option besides being thrown to that level because of Bargs injuries and there just not being anyone else to help on offense. I'll just say this hes a second option and alongside a consistent threat like Rudy he can shine. I understand though he is the best asset we have for trade, but the kid has talent and should be dealt high.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Mr.Z wrote: View Post
                      How many times this season did our bench come in the game and dig themselves a hole that they would have to climb out of for the rest of the game? Too many.
                      +1. let's go t-ross. need a capable pg and a capable big.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Mr.Z wrote: View Post
                        Man, I said this before, before we even discuss letting the bench handle some of the scoring duties maybe we should get a decent bench group together before we start messing around with the starting line-up. That's what I think. Why should we change the starting line-up when our team would probably be pretty damn good if we had better guys on the bench than Lucas, Telfaire, Anderson, Landry, Acy and Gray? That's a fucking terrible bench.
                        There was nothing in our conversation about the bench. I absolutely agree that the bench desperately needs to improve.

                        Our conversation was about the starting lineup, comparing what it currently is and what it would look like if DeRozan were traded for an upgraded starting PF. I was just pointing out that your analysis of the revamped starting lineup was incomplete, since you only mentioned 2 of the 4 starters (aside from Gay) in your evaluation.

                        I certainly wasn't saying that a DeRozan for a starting PF (ie: Millsap) trade should be the only roster move made, so there's still plenty of opportunity to address the bench.

                        Ironically, such a trade would actually improve the bench, since Johnson would move into the 2nd unit. A 4th wing would need to be acquired, either to start with Gay (leaving Ross & Fields on the 2nd unit) or to play with the 2nd unit (Fields would likely start, with Ross staying on the 2nd unit).

                        An upgraded backup PG is an absolute necessity, which could possibly be acquired in a Bargnani deal, or with the MLE. I assume between a Bargnani trade and the MLE, both a backup PG and 4th wing can be acquired.

                        Even without any additional moves, the lineup would look something like this, which I think represents improvements in both the starting and 2nd units:

                        C: Valanciunas, Gray
                        PF: Millsap, Johnson, Acy
                        SF: Gay, Fields/4th wing
                        SG: Fields/4th wing, Ross
                        PG: Lowry, backup PG, Lucas
                        Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Thu Jun 6, 2013, 10:36 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          special1 wrote: View Post
                          Well if it isn't the 3 usual suspects.....Nilanka, Matt52, CalgaryRapsFan
                          Serious question: Are you romantically in love with DeRozan? It's ok if you are. I won't judge. It'll just explain a whole lot...

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                            There was nothing in our conversation about the bench. I absolutely agree that the bench desperately needs to improve.

                            Our conversation was about the starting lineup, comparing what it currently is and what it would look like if DeRozan were traded for an upgraded starting PF. I was just pointing out that your analysis of the revamped starting lineup was incomplete, since you only mentioned 2 of the 4 starters (aside from Gay) in your evaluation.

                            I certainly wasn't saying that a DeRozan for a starting PF (ie: Millsap) trade should be the only roster move made, so there's still plenty of opportunity to address the bench.

                            Ironically, such a trade would actually improve the bench, since Johnson would move into the 2nd unit. A 4th wing would need to be acquired, either to start with Gay (leaving Ross & Fields on the 2nd unit) or to play with the 2nd unit (Fields would likely start, with Ross staying on the 2nd unit).

                            An upgraded backup PG is an absolute necessity, which could possibly be acquired in a Bargnani deal, or with the MLE. I assume between a Bargnani trade and the MLE, both a backup PG and 4th wing can be acquired.

                            Even without any additional moves, the lineup would look something like this, which I think represents improvements in both the starting and 2nd units:

                            C: Valanciunas, Gray
                            PF: Millsap, Johnson, Acy
                            SF: Gay, Fields/4th wing
                            SG: Fields/4th wing, Ross
                            PG: Lowry, backup PG, Lucas

                            I know there was nothing in your conversation about the bench. I brought it up on my own. I was simply stating unless Derozan is traded for something along the lines of what you suggested there ^ that I don't think we should change the starting line-up. At least not yet.

                            But am I not allowed to make that vote?
                            You come at the King, you best not miss.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Mr.Z wrote: View Post
                              I know there was nothing in your conversation about the bench. I brought it up on my own. I was simply stating unless Derozan is traded for something along the lines of what you suggested there ^ that I don't think we should change the starting line-up. At least not yet.

                              But am I not allowed to make that vote?
                              The way you brought up the bench and added it to our discussion out of the blue threw me off. We're in complete agreement that the 2nd unit needs a big upgrade. However, I'd rather upgrade the starting lineup and let the depth chart domino effect upgrade the 2nd unit by default, than making upgrading the 2nd unit the top priority.

                              I'm not in favor of trading DeRozan unless an upgraded starting PF who can be part of the core for a number of years is acquired (ie: not even Gasol, since he's too old to be part of the long-term plan). I doubt Gay or Fields are nearly as tradeable, mainly because of their contracts, while Ross's contract is too small to return any significant piece.

                              For me, it's a matter of trading for equal/better talent, while re-allocating the team's salary to other position ($36.3M is currently going to the top-4 wings in 2013-14: RG, DD, TR, LF - roughly 60% of the total team salary cap). It's not hate/disrespect for DeRozan, it's more a matter of him getting caught in the numbers game (especially with his new deal kicking in next season).
                              Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Thu Jun 6, 2013, 12:48 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                I understand this but then it brings us back to the same discussion thats been had a million times; are Fields or Ross capable starters? That 4th wing guy would have to be a pretty damn good player.
                                You come at the King, you best not miss.

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