Page 8 of 16 FirstFirst ... 6 7 8 9 10 ... LastLast
Results 141 to 160 of 317

Thread: Ujiri is trying to get in the draft, who you want?

  1. #141
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario
    Posts
    3,903
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    do you understand what "if" means? why a personal attack on a thought?

    when have I ever said anything but praise for demar? I don't appreciate being lumped in with others. I was commenting on shabazz on a thread about the draft and his hypothetical availability at 13.
    I wasn't that upset. I was trying to be more funny than dramatic. I do agree that DD does get a lot of slack on this forum. Even though his known around the league as a top young SG. You don't get invested to USA mini camp of your not legit.

  2. #142
    Raptors Republic All-Star
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,337
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    this isn't a demar thread and i am not a hater or "picking on demar"
    but you asked for his stats and here they are compared with the other sg in the league and after this you can tell us it's an eye test that matters

    http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/holli...rueShootingPct

    ts% 38th
    asr 53rd
    tor 14th
    usr 11th
    orr 37th
    drr 23rd
    rr 31st
    per 18th
    va (don't know what this is meassuring) 9th
    ewa 9th

    god bless him, he plays his heart out, works the hardest on the team. but as fans if we can't even suggest he is moved "for what we believe to be the better of the team" (i am on here many times saying i'd rather lose Gay then demar) without a squadron of demar fan boys all butthurt and attacking us personally as unintelligent or not knowing what we're talking about, that's riduculous. but ignore everything i post because i just need to vent so anything i say has no merit. i'm blinded with hate.
    Yo, who said I was talking about you? Did I mention your name? If you want me to drag you into this okay. You're amazing at taking stats out of context to prove a point. There's a reason Demar is being invited to Team USA practices for the second year. Same reason Demar played more minutes than any other Raptor. I suspect the people making THOSE decisions have access to WAY better statistical analysis than you will EVER HAVE. They came up with a different conclusion from you. I'll take their analysis, knowledge, analytic data over yours EVERY DAY OF THE YEAR.

    Do you even know what these numbers mean? There are over 400 players in the NBA. Demar is in the top 10% in the league at every category you posted except assist rate, which we can assume is dominated by point guards.

    He is in the top 0.5% players in the statistics of Value Added (VA) -- you know a calculation that asks what his value is to his team in comparison to his teammates?
    And EWA -- ESTIMATED WINS ADDED -- This is an important one for someone who throws numbers without doing their homework. It also proves my point. Good luck with a comeback!

    So what have we learned today? Demar is in the top 10% of NBA players in numerous stats (not to forget the pace he gets to the line, minutes played, durability, etc) and is in the top 0.5% of the league in Value added to his team and Estimated Wins Added.

    Thanks for doing my work. For me It's a good thing I actually know how to read the numbers you're throwing at me.

  3. #143
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,873
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    what comeback? you accused me of nit picking stats, then nit picked different ones, called me stupid a couple of times to show people your superior knowledge and said basketball professionals know more about basketball than I do because I didn't know that before. I thought I was a teacher because I was a tactical genius when it turns out I'm a teacher because I don't know what va is measuring.

    all covered?

  4. #144
    Raptors Republic All-Star
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,337
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    What the hell, it's late and I'm bored. Let's drill deeper into YOUR numbers shall we? If Demar is in the top 10% in every category you have shared with us, so if positions are spread equally in the top 10% of these categories Demar would be in the top 2% of Shooting guards in the NBA. That would mean that according to your numbers Demar is a top 10 Shooting guard EASY.

    Do I think he's top 10? No. But I'm also not on the bandwagon who want him traded. Demar is the type of player successful teams keep. I want every, young, end of bench player who comes to Toronto see that the 2nd highest paid player works as hard as someone trying to get their first pay cheque. THAT'S how you create a team ethos, culture, etc. If people see the guys getting paid in late, bustin' they tail, see people like Bargs being shipped out and boo'd for lackadaisical play, then maybe, MAYBE this team can become something.

  5. #145
    Raptors Republic All-Star
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,337
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    what comeback? you accused me of nit picking stats, then nit picked different ones, called me stupid a couple of times to show people your superior knowledge and said basketball professionals know more about basketball than I do because I didn't know that before. I thought I was a teacher because I was a tactical genius when it turns out I'm a teacher because I don't know what va is measuring.

    all covered?
    I never called you stupid. Stop being sensitive. The stats argue my case not yours. That's all I'm saying. How could I call someone I've never met stupid? That's a non-starter in my books. Everyone in the world has different skills, areas of knowledge...If you interpreted my statement as anything but me arguing my case, my apology.

  6. #146
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,873
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote blackjitsu wrote: View Post
    I never called you stupid. Stop being sensitive. The stats argue my case not yours. That's all I'm saying. How could I call someone I've never met stupid? That's a non-starter in my books. Everyone in the world has different skills, areas of knowledge...If you interpreted my statement as anything but me arguing my case, my apology.
    I'm sorry for misinterpreting then and I do respect your opinion.

  7. #147
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,873
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    again I want zeller, kabongo and Burke in that order if we happen to get into the draft.

  8. #148
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    19,362
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote blackjitsu wrote: View Post
    What the hell, it's late and I'm bored. Let's drill deeper into YOUR numbers shall we? If Demar is in the top 10% in every category you have shared with us, so if positions are spread equally in the top 10% of these categories Demar would be in the top 2% of Shooting guards in the NBA. That would mean that according to your numbers Demar is a top 10 Shooting guard EASY.

    Do I think he's top 10? No. But I'm also not on the bandwagon who want him traded. Demar is the type of player successful teams keep. I want every, young, end of bench player who comes to Toronto see that the 2nd highest paid player works as hard as someone trying to get their first pay cheque. THAT'S how you create a team ethos, culture, etc. If people see the guys getting paid in late, bustin' they tail, see people like Bargs being shipped out and boo'd for lackadaisical play, then maybe, MAYBE this team can become something.
    Those are some liberties in coming to conclusions but what the hell it is early and I'm awake.


    Lets look at the basics first:

    DeRozan is pretty much average to below average in every statistical category when it comes to other NBA SGs except PPG where he has more FGA and less efficiency:

    http://www.thenbageek.com/players/co..._ids[]=318

    Also if you factor in minutes played per game the win shares becomes dreadful as well.



    Question: Does EWA have anything to do with the number of minutes played? Don't you think you are going to get some pretty skewed numbers comparing DeRozan at 36.7mpg to players playing less? DeRozan still looks pretty good at per36mins but he starts looking a lot more average.

    Perfect examples:

    DeRozan to Hayward.
    DD = 36.7mpg for 6.5EWA; Hayward = 29.2mpg for 6.6EWA. per36mpg DD = 6.38; Hayward = 8.14.

    DeRozan to CJ Miles:
    DD = 36.7mpg for 6.5EWA; Miles = 21.0mpg for 3.3EWA. per36mpg DD = 6.38; Miles = 5.66.



    What about DeRozan's net contributions?

    on/off court: -1.4
    http://www.82games.com/1213/1213TOR.HTM

    OffRtg: 102.0
    DefRtg: 104.3
    Net: -2.4
    http://stats.nba.com/playerStats.htm...erMode=PerGame



    I admire and respect DeRozan's work ethic and commitment to his game. However, after 4 seasons in the league with 3 seasons of averaging around 36mpg, he is a known commodity. He might have another level to his game when it comes to efficiency (here is hoping he shed the inefficient volume scorer label) but for all the other areas like rebounding, assists, and defense, he is what he is.

    As for the nitpicking on stats you accused Miekenstien of: pot meet kettle. Any argument can be supported with statistics or debunked with statistics as you did, as Miekenstien did, and as I just did. The difference in the arguments is the passive aggressiveness and emotional attachment you have displayed in drawing conclusions and analyzing data.
    Last edited by mcHAPPY; Thu Jun 13th, 2013 at 08:50 AM. Reason: correction
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  9. #149
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    19,362
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote blackjitsu wrote: View Post
    What the hell, it's late and I'm bored. Let's drill deeper into YOUR numbers shall we? If Demar is in the top 10% in every category you have shared with us, so if positions are spread equally in the top 10% of these categories Demar would be in the top 2% of Shooting guards in the NBA. That would mean that according to your numbers Demar is a top 10 Shooting guard EASY.

    Do I think he's top 10? No. But I'm also not on the bandwagon who want him traded. Demar is the type of player successful teams keep. I want every, young, end of bench player who comes to Toronto see that the 2nd highest paid player works as hard as someone trying to get their first pay cheque. THAT'S how you create a team ethos, culture, etc. If people see the guys getting paid in late, bustin' they tail, see people like Bargs being shipped out and boo'd for lackadaisical play, then maybe, MAYBE this team can become something.
    Just as a follow up to my previous reply to this. The first paragraph is ridiculous. I would like to address the first paragraph:

    DeMar was not in the top 10% of these categories. The link given brought up SGs and 66 players. He was top 10% (6.6) in anything except minutes played.

    If you meant to say top 10, then the only category is VA and EWA - but that is just for SGs - and, as my previous post detailed, it does not account for minutes played.

    Quote blackjitsu wrote: View Post
    He is in the top 0.5% players in the statistics of Value Added (VA) -- you know a calculation that asks what his value is to his team in comparison to his teammates?
    And EWA -- ESTIMATED WINS ADDED -- This is an important one for someone who throws numbers without doing their homework. It also proves my point. Good luck with a comeback!
    The above is from a previous post of yours in this thread.

    Again, fatal flaw in your argument is using the whole league (400 players) as a basis for your assertion that DeMar is in the top 0.5% of players for VA and EWA when the data you have used to come to this conclusion only included 66 shooting guards.

    To put your statements in better context:

    DD is 83rd in VA and tied for 82nd in EWA.

    Of the 344 players listed when you click "All" that puts him in the top 24% which would put him as an average average starter. However if you put the results in to a per36 format, as I did previously, I think it is safe to say he would come in below average. DeRozan, when looking at the entire league, is 5th in total minutes played and tied for 16th in minutes per game.

    To put DeMar in context with the other top 5 mpg players (Durant, Lillard, and Ellis), lets look at ranking on VA and EWA:

    Player - VA - EWA

    Durant - 2nd - 2nd
    Kobe - 3rd - 3rd
    Lillard - 46th - 46th
    Ellis - 52nd - 52nd
    DeMar - 83rd - 82nd
    Last edited by mcHAPPY; Thu Jun 13th, 2013 at 11:04 AM. Reason: correction
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  10. #150
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    2,996
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I could save you guys a lot of stat hunting and math.... DeMar DeRozan does just about everything in an average to slightly above average way. I call it the eye test...and although I love him as a person, he doesn't do anything at an elite level...not one single thing

  11. #151
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    19,362
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote thead wrote: View Post
    I could save you guys a lot of stat hunting and math.... DeMar DeRozan does just about everything in an average to slightly above average way. I call it the eye test...and although I love him as a person, he doesn't do anything at an elite level...not one single thing
    That is very much true.

    The problem, as evident by the pro-DeMar posters, is emotions and biases can cloud the eye test.

    Stats are not the be all and end all but they certainly help validate the conclusions of the eye test.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  12. #152
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    3,063
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Demar for life!

  13. #153
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,873
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    Demar for life!
    hahaha. actually laughing on the bus to work.

  14. Like Rapstor4Life liked this post
  15. #154
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Vancouver, BC.
    Posts
    4,057
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I just want to point out that basketball seems to have become very dependent upon stats, especially analytics. Which I don't disagree with one bit, but maybe we are using it as a measure more than intangibles and heard-work, heart, etc, to judge a certain player.

    I don't know, I feel people are putting much of their judgement upon stats, and it's very obvious when people don't watch a game, and they look at the box score and just assume..

  16. #155
    Raptors Republic Superstar TRex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Jurassic Park
    Posts
    2,981
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I want either a PG or a 3pt shooter that's it.

    Point Guards(in this order):

    MCW
    Larkin
    Schroeder
    Kabongo

    3pt shooters(in this order):

    Bullock
    Rice Jr.
    Karasev
    Crabbe

    This NBA Finals really shows the importance of a 3pt shot.
    Follow me on Twitter - @11_RRyan

  17. #156
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario
    Posts
    3,903
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    I want either a PG or a 3pt shooter that's it.

    Point Guards(in this order):

    MCW
    Larkin
    Schroeder
    Kabongo

    3pt shooters(in this order):

    Bullock
    Rice Jr.
    Karasev
    Crabbe

    This NBA Finals really shows the importance of a 3pt shot.
    I'd like to add Kentavious Caldwell-Pope and Ricardo Ledo to the list of shooters.

  18. #157
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    19,362
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    I'd like to add Kentavious Caldwell-Pope and Ricardo Ledo to the list of shooters.
    KCP is getting a lot of love. Most have him going in the lottery now.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  19. #158
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    19,362
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Ryan Blake, the senior director of NBA scouting operations, offers his take on UNLV power forward Anthony Bennett for the Orlando Sentinel:

    “It would’ve been nice to see him this summer, but the good thing from his standpoint is he got that surgery on the rotator cuff so he can be ready. It wasn’t on his shooting arm.

    “He’s one of the most versatile players around. He’s a guy that can play in the post. He can play a little bit on the wing. In college, at 6-8, 240 he was able to play two positions because he has that versatility. He shoots 38 percent from behind the arc. Although he takes 25 percent of his shots from deep, he had to play in the post. The question is if he’s going to be able to guard small forwards. . . . But he’s so versatile. He can rebound. He can block shots. He can pass the ball as well. He can be one of the better players in a few years that comes out of this draft because of that.

    “A lot of people ask, ‘Does he remind you in a way of Larry Johnson?’ Yes, in a way, he does. Not just because he’s from UNLV. Because he has that versatility as a big man.

    “If you have a guy that can improve on all those things, he’s able to work on those things full-time. He’s in good condition, but he’s going to be in great condition. He’s going to be able to improve his handle. He’s going to be able to get to the basket from the wing. As a go-to guy, I think he’s going to be able to embrace a lot of the other chores: the screening, the spacing. His confidence is just going to really, really rise, and you might find him as a third option early on in the season.”


    http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sport...,0,207957.post
    I can't help but think about Derrick Williams when I read about Bennett. I hope that is wrong.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  20. #159
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    7,837
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I can't help but think about Derrick Williams when I read about Bennett. I hope that is wrong.
    I don't really get that impression at all. To me, Bennett is hands down, easily a PF in the NBA. It's his ability that allowed him to play at the wing a bit, but he's very naturally a PF who's just a tad short. His frame and length are totally fine by NBA standards.

    When I think of Bennett, I think he falls somewhere in a spectrum where Carl Landry (or something like that) is the floor, and something like Barkley is his ceiling (you know, if he fully maximizes his bball and physical abilities). Basically, at worst a bench big who can score (probably better than Landry there) and rebound, and likely a 6th man type. And at best, a nightmare matchup at PF (like Barkley) regardless of height because the combination of size, skill and athleticism is just too much to handle.

    *Mostly responding to the impression the article gives about his versatility. But I don't think he'll have Williams problem. Williams to me was always a natural SF. Bennett plays with a lot more explosiveness and force down low compared to him.
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Mon Jun 17th, 2013 at 08:56 AM.

  21. #160
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    19,362
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    I don't really get that impression at all. To me, Bennett is hands down, easily a PF in the NBA. It's his ability that allowed him to play at the wing a bit, but he's very naturally a PF who's just a tad short. His frame and length are totally fine by NBA standards.

    When I think of Bennett, I think he falls somewhere in a spectrum where Carl Landry (or something like that) is the floor, and something like Barkley is his ceiling (you know, if he fully maximizes his bball and physical abilities). Basically, at worst a bench big who can score (probably better than Landry there) and rebound, and likely a 6th man type. And at best, a nightmare matchup at PF (like Barkley) regardless of height because the combination of size, skill and athleticism is just too much to handle.
    I hope you are right.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

Page 8 of 16 FirstFirst ... 6 7 8 9 10 ... LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •