i think myck will be the second best pg from this class after burke
zeller, burke, kabongo is my order
pg, sg, sf, pf, c 84/85 magic johnson 23.5 ppg on .561 shooting 8 rpg 16.2 apg 1.9 stl
pg 14/15 steph curry 23.8 ppg .443 from 3 7.7 apg 2 stl .638 ts%
pf 73/74 bob mcAdoo 30.6 ppg .547 shooting 15.1 rpg 1.2 stl 3.3 blk 43 min
Right now the rumour is that Dallas is talking to Cleveland about sending them the 13th and Shawn Marion for Cleveland's 19th. This way Dallas clears off Marion's hefty salary in order to chase Dwight Howard, and the only cost to them is a minor downgrade to their pick.And is there a way we can get the Mavs' 13th?
If we want Dallas' pick, then we probably have to do slightly better than that, and I don't think we can. The Rudy trade killed our money flexibility that lets us satisfy Dallas' needs.
Don't think about picks per se. Think about what we want to get with the picks, what we want to give up for the picks, and how we want to use those picks.If not what picks are we able to get in this draft? (1st and 2nd)
So, to answer those questions in order:
1. Unlike many teams, we already have our center for the foreseeable future in Jonas, and if we can't get Bennett then we aren't going to use the pick on a low-end power forward because Amir is a decent starting PF and it's a pretty deep position around the league so it can be had more easily than most. What we want is either a starting point guard (if we trade Lowry) or a backup (if we keep him), a starting shooting guard (if we trade DeMar) or a backup (if we keep him), and maybe a starting small forward (if we trade Rudy). So the major candidates, reading through this thread, are (in rough draft order) Otto Porter, Victor Oladipo, Anthony Bennett, Trey Burke, Michael Carter-Williams, Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, CJ McCollum, Dennis Schroeder, Giannis Adetokunbo and the Kabongos. I'd add Ricky Ledo and Nate Wolters to that list (both before the Kabongos but after everyone else).
2. There are two theories towards trading away players right now: get rid of only the trash (Bargnani, Kleiza, maybe Fields), or do a more full-scale rebuild (which would involve trading one or more of Rudy, Lowry, DeMar or Ross as well as aiming to extract value from Bargnani/Kleiza/Fields). (We also still control the draft rights to Tomislav Zubcic, don't forget, and he's starting to look like a viable PF project.)
If we can get a pick straight-up for Bargnani without taking garbage back (which is possible, but unlikely), it'll be a second-rounder to a team that's willing to gamble on him. Ditto Fields. Kleiza's expiring contract means we take on some garbage and maybe get a low pick in exchange. Lowry went for a first-rounder last time; he probably still can go for such this time, but not a high-end pick. DeMar has a lot of value around the league and as such would probably be an asset+pick in trade. Rudy has the most value, but his salary means we pretty much have to accept that we take back at least some trash (and hopefully a decent player) along with the picks he would bring us.
And, of course, there is always the option of simply buying a low-end pick outright with cash or with Zubcic's draft rights. Second-rounders this year are not valued terribly highly.
3. Looking at what we want and what we can do: we can probably get Myck Kabongo via a simple cash-for-second-rounder trade; if we traded away Bargnani and took back nothing to get Kabongo, I would consider that a major coup. We can also likely get a Kabongo-enabling pick in any trade involving one of our Big Four tradeable assets (Rudy/Lowry/DeMar/Ross) as a little side benefit. So I think we should strongly look towards getting Kabongo: he has a lot of upside as a pass-first floor general, and his upside is all the more impressive when you compare it to how little we would have to give up to get that pick. The fact that he is Canadian is important too: we should want good, young Canadian players playing for the Raptors.
Given all of the arguments for Kabongo, I tend to be very less interested in the higher-up PG prospects in this draft. Burke and MCW are both going to be moderately expensive and you come up against the question of how much you want to expend for someone who may well not be any improvement over Kabongo - or Kyle Lowry, for that matter.
Anthony Bennett, Victor Oladipo, Otto Porter and Trey Burke: are probably not gettable unless you're willing to trade Rudy (who I think is the only asset we have who can get us a top-four pick right now; none of the top-four teams are going to be interested in our other assets unless we take some of their trash). I'd be willing to do a Bennett-for-Rudy trade to Cleveland or Washington, but I don't think Orlando or Charlotte go for it: Orlando has Tobias Harris and Charlotte has MKG, and neither is in win-now mode. Cleveland and Washington, though - they both want to make the playoffs and neither one of them has a top-quality small forward. That might be doable. But in order for them to take on Rudy's salary, we'd have to take back some trash salary from either team: Cleveland probably sends us a mix of Alonzo Gee, Marrese Speights and Tyler Zeller, Washington sends us Trevor Ariza and Jan Vesely or maybe Nene. That's painful (especially Nene), and I don't think Cleveland or Washington particularly WANT to give up their picks - especially Washington, who can just get Otto Porter themselves anyway, since Porter already has a lot of Rudy's game for 1/8th the price once you pay him.
KCP and Schroeder: They're players whose picks are gettable but I'm not sure what we offer Portland/Detroit/Minnesota/Philly/OKC/Dallas. Portland might want some reasonably priced bench players - Ross? Acy? - but I don't think they'll give up the chance to draft another talented young role player. Detroit is rebuilding and won't want to ship picks, especially when they might not get a 2014 pick (Charlotte has it top-8 protected). Minnesota is interested in DeMar but they're also the most likely to draft KCP, who obliviates their need for DeMar. OKC doesn't want any of our assets. Dallas: see above. And Philly can't trade their pick this year because their 2014 pick is traded on a protected basis.
Adetokoubo, Ledo and Wolters: Now we're in the 20s. There are options here: Cleveland's #19, Utah's #21, Brooklyn's #22, New York's #24. Cleveland and Utah would probably trade their second picks in this draft relatively cheaply. New York and Brooklyn both have lots of players they would like to unload for Lowry and/or Kleiza's expiring contracts: are we willing to take on Marcus Camby or Steve Novak for a few years? Maybe we trade both Lowry and Kleiza to Brooklyn for Gerald Wallace? That's probably what it takes here, because New York and Brooklyn are so overloaded with salaries that rookie exemptions are one of the few ways they can add to their rosters at all.
So, to sum up: Myck Kabongo and Giannis Adetokoubo are the most obtainable players for us in this draft. We can get them relatively cheaply. If we're willing to expend more serious assets, we might as well go big and aim for Anthony Bennett.
We could send Lowry for the Utah's 14th
Lucas for the Mav's 13th
then let Schroeder / Larkin / MCW (2 of the 3 drafted back to back) battle for the starting spot
Not sure if I am creating something in my fixated mind but..... here goes....
There are a lot of close relationships between the Raptors, Bucks, and Kings.
- New assistant GM is currently with Bucks
- New Sacramento GM is was with with Nuggets/Ujiri
- jammed on wings with overpaid and/or overlapping talent.
- current assistant GM about to join Raps
- Ellis is an UFA and new SAC ownership used to be part owner of W's and big Monta fan
- starting and backup SG (Ellis/Redick) likely to bolt via UFA
- Jennings and DD history
- new GM was assistant to Ujiri
- new coach was assistant in GS when Ellis played, good relationship
- new ownership a fan of Ellis from minority ownership in GS days
- cap space to sign Ellis
There just seems, IN MY OPINION, to be too many relationships and too many assets that could benefit each team.
Assets Raptors could conceivably have interest in from:
b) Dunleavy via S&T
Assets Bucks and Kings might have interest in from Toronto:
b) willingness to take a bad contract? (Salmons, Hayes, Mbah a Moute, Gooden)
c) Gray (both need legit backup C)
"You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"Bruno Caboclo
Report: Mclemore's draft stock is reportedly slipping after some unimpressive workouts.
What would it take to get this guy without giving up Gay, JV and DD?
"You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"Bruno Caboclo
If McLemore or Bennett are available at 7 that would be interesting.
Also meant to say in earlier post that Sacramento keep looking at Shabazz who has fallen hard to the mid teens while Milwaukee reportedly was high on KCP recently. No way KCP reaches 15.
So even forgetting Toronto for a minute, it might appear MIL and SAC could become trade partners.
"You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"Bruno Caboclo
Call me crazy but I think Bargs will be moved trade night and perhaps Klieza in some sort of 2nd rounder deal.
Green room invitees: Noel, Oladipo, Porter, Len, Bennett, McLemore, Burke, Carter-Williams, McCollum & Zeller.— Chad Ford (@chadfordinsider) June 23, 2013
Last edited by blackjitsu; Sun Jun 23rd, 2013 at 09:51 PM.
I don't think there's any way Bennett falls past #3. The more i think about it the more i'd love him on the team, too. Despite all that stuff i said about him way back. I'm hot for him. Real hot.
That quote just made me burst out laughing, causing water to shoot out my nose. Thanks for that, Ben McLemore.
I understand, there is a daily avalanche of fan-mail filled with ideas that will guarantee a championship...
Well, this is my humble hat being thrown in - the Toronto Raptors would be wise to acquire a high draft pick to take Victor Oladipo. His work ethic and athletic ability suggest that his rapid development is a trend that should continue.
In the short term, he and JV form a defensive tandem that also boast the heart and hard work that Toronto sports fans love to cheer for...in the long term, those traits also happen to be essential to the pedigree of championship contender. Not to mention that these are two young men you can trust to act as ambassadors of the Raptors brand.
Oladipo's the diamond in the much maligned rough of the 2013 draft. He could be our Russell Westbrook-like perimeter ace, but without the antics. Surely, that type of prospect would be worthy of a trade involving anyone from the Raptors core not named Jonas.
i agree Oladipo is going to be a heck of a player. If they want guys who are going to play defense and never stop fighting he's certainly what the doctor ordered.
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