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Thread: Ujiri is trying to get in the draft, who you want?

  1. #221
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    Quote JordanMariam14 wrote: View Post
    GUYS. And girls if there are any.

    Dennis Schroeder, or Myck Kabongo?

    Who would you rather have as our backup PG?

    And is there a way we can get the Mavs' 13th?

    If not what picks are we able to get in this draft? (1st and 2nd)
    Straight up, I'd rather have Schroeder. However, I don't think there's a massive difference in upside between the two. Given that you probably need a lottery pick to grab Schroeder and only a late first to grab Kabongo, Kabongo is probably the better value pick.

  2. #222
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    myck

    i think myck will be the second best pg from this class after burke

    and again

    zeller, burke, kabongo is my order
    For The Win

  3. #223
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    Quote JordanMariam14 wrote: View Post
    GUYS. And girls if there are any.

    Dennis Schroeder, or Myck Kabongo?

    Who would you rather have as our backup PG?
    Myck Kabongo (or his brother Christian) can both be gotten much more cheaply than Schroeder can. Myck should go somewhere in the 30-40 range - which means a high second pick. Those can be gotten relatively cheaply. Schroeder will go top-15 if not higher and you're going to have to give up more for that. For example:

    And is there a way we can get the Mavs' 13th?
    Right now the rumour is that Dallas is talking to Cleveland about sending them the 13th and Shawn Marion for Cleveland's 19th. This way Dallas clears off Marion's hefty salary in order to chase Dwight Howard, and the only cost to them is a minor downgrade to their pick.

    If we want Dallas' pick, then we probably have to do slightly better than that, and I don't think we can. The Rudy trade killed our money flexibility that lets us satisfy Dallas' needs.

    If not what picks are we able to get in this draft? (1st and 2nd)
    Don't think about picks per se. Think about what we want to get with the picks, what we want to give up for the picks, and how we want to use those picks.

    So, to answer those questions in order:

    1. Unlike many teams, we already have our center for the foreseeable future in Jonas, and if we can't get Bennett then we aren't going to use the pick on a low-end power forward because Amir is a decent starting PF and it's a pretty deep position around the league so it can be had more easily than most. What we want is either a starting point guard (if we trade Lowry) or a backup (if we keep him), a starting shooting guard (if we trade DeMar) or a backup (if we keep him), and maybe a starting small forward (if we trade Rudy). So the major candidates, reading through this thread, are (in rough draft order) Otto Porter, Victor Oladipo, Anthony Bennett, Trey Burke, Michael Carter-Williams, Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, CJ McCollum, Dennis Schroeder, Giannis Adetokunbo and the Kabongos. I'd add Ricky Ledo and Nate Wolters to that list (both before the Kabongos but after everyone else).

    2. There are two theories towards trading away players right now: get rid of only the trash (Bargnani, Kleiza, maybe Fields), or do a more full-scale rebuild (which would involve trading one or more of Rudy, Lowry, DeMar or Ross as well as aiming to extract value from Bargnani/Kleiza/Fields). (We also still control the draft rights to Tomislav Zubcic, don't forget, and he's starting to look like a viable PF project.)

    If we can get a pick straight-up for Bargnani without taking garbage back (which is possible, but unlikely), it'll be a second-rounder to a team that's willing to gamble on him. Ditto Fields. Kleiza's expiring contract means we take on some garbage and maybe get a low pick in exchange. Lowry went for a first-rounder last time; he probably still can go for such this time, but not a high-end pick. DeMar has a lot of value around the league and as such would probably be an asset+pick in trade. Rudy has the most value, but his salary means we pretty much have to accept that we take back at least some trash (and hopefully a decent player) along with the picks he would bring us.

    And, of course, there is always the option of simply buying a low-end pick outright with cash or with Zubcic's draft rights. Second-rounders this year are not valued terribly highly.

    3. Looking at what we want and what we can do: we can probably get Myck Kabongo via a simple cash-for-second-rounder trade; if we traded away Bargnani and took back nothing to get Kabongo, I would consider that a major coup. We can also likely get a Kabongo-enabling pick in any trade involving one of our Big Four tradeable assets (Rudy/Lowry/DeMar/Ross) as a little side benefit. So I think we should strongly look towards getting Kabongo: he has a lot of upside as a pass-first floor general, and his upside is all the more impressive when you compare it to how little we would have to give up to get that pick. The fact that he is Canadian is important too: we should want good, young Canadian players playing for the Raptors.

    Given all of the arguments for Kabongo, I tend to be very less interested in the higher-up PG prospects in this draft. Burke and MCW are both going to be moderately expensive and you come up against the question of how much you want to expend for someone who may well not be any improvement over Kabongo - or Kyle Lowry, for that matter.

    Anthony Bennett, Victor Oladipo, Otto Porter and Trey Burke: are probably not gettable unless you're willing to trade Rudy (who I think is the only asset we have who can get us a top-four pick right now; none of the top-four teams are going to be interested in our other assets unless we take some of their trash). I'd be willing to do a Bennett-for-Rudy trade to Cleveland or Washington, but I don't think Orlando or Charlotte go for it: Orlando has Tobias Harris and Charlotte has MKG, and neither is in win-now mode. Cleveland and Washington, though - they both want to make the playoffs and neither one of them has a top-quality small forward. That might be doable. But in order for them to take on Rudy's salary, we'd have to take back some trash salary from either team: Cleveland probably sends us a mix of Alonzo Gee, Marrese Speights and Tyler Zeller, Washington sends us Trevor Ariza and Jan Vesely or maybe Nene. That's painful (especially Nene), and I don't think Cleveland or Washington particularly WANT to give up their picks - especially Washington, who can just get Otto Porter themselves anyway, since Porter already has a lot of Rudy's game for 1/8th the price once you pay him.

    KCP and Schroeder: They're players whose picks are gettable but I'm not sure what we offer Portland/Detroit/Minnesota/Philly/OKC/Dallas. Portland might want some reasonably priced bench players - Ross? Acy? - but I don't think they'll give up the chance to draft another talented young role player. Detroit is rebuilding and won't want to ship picks, especially when they might not get a 2014 pick (Charlotte has it top-8 protected). Minnesota is interested in DeMar but they're also the most likely to draft KCP, who obliviates their need for DeMar. OKC doesn't want any of our assets. Dallas: see above. And Philly can't trade their pick this year because their 2014 pick is traded on a protected basis.

    Adetokoubo, Ledo and Wolters: Now we're in the 20s. There are options here: Cleveland's #19, Utah's #21, Brooklyn's #22, New York's #24. Cleveland and Utah would probably trade their second picks in this draft relatively cheaply. New York and Brooklyn both have lots of players they would like to unload for Lowry and/or Kleiza's expiring contracts: are we willing to take on Marcus Camby or Steve Novak for a few years? Maybe we trade both Lowry and Kleiza to Brooklyn for Gerald Wallace? That's probably what it takes here, because New York and Brooklyn are so overloaded with salaries that rookie exemptions are one of the few ways they can add to their rosters at all.

    So, to sum up: Myck Kabongo and Giannis Adetokoubo are the most obtainable players for us in this draft. We can get them relatively cheaply. If we're willing to expend more serious assets, we might as well go big and aim for Anthony Bennett.

  4. #224
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    We could send Lowry for the Utah's 14th
    Lucas for the Mav's 13th

    then let Schroeder / Larkin / MCW (2 of the 3 drafted back to back) battle for the starting spot

  5. #225
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote connected wrote: View Post
    We could send Lowry for the Utah's 14th
    Lucas for the Mav's 13th

    then let Schroeder / Larkin / MCW (2 of the 3 drafted back to back) battle for the starting spot
    These kids have potential but right Kyle Lowry is better than all of them. That's also fun if you think Casey would start a rookie point guard.

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  7. #226
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Not sure if I am creating something in my fixated mind but..... here goes....


    There are a lot of close relationships between the Raptors, Bucks, and Kings.


    Raptors:
    - New assistant GM is currently with Bucks
    - New Sacramento GM is was with with Nuggets/Ujiri
    - jammed on wings with overpaid and/or overlapping talent.

    Bucks:
    - current assistant GM about to join Raps
    - Ellis is an UFA and new SAC ownership used to be part owner of W's and big Monta fan
    - starting and backup SG (Ellis/Redick) likely to bolt via UFA
    - Jennings and DD history

    Kings:
    - new GM was assistant to Ujiri
    - new coach was assistant in GS when Ellis played, good relationship
    - new ownership a fan of Ellis from minority ownership in GS days
    - cap space to sign Ellis



    There just seems, IN MY OPINION, to be too many relationships and too many assets that could benefit each team.


    Assets Raptors could conceivably have interest in from:
    - Bucks:
    a) #15/#43
    b) Dunleavy via S&T
    c) Ilyasova

    - Kings:
    a) Thompson
    b) Freddette
    c) #7/#36
    d) Patterson
    e) Thornton


    Assets Bucks and Kings might have interest in from Toronto:
    a) DeRozan
    b) willingness to take a bad contract? (Salmons, Hayes, Mbah a Moute, Gooden)
    c) Gray (both need legit backup C)
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  8. #227
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    These kids have potential but right Kyle Lowry is better than all of them. That's also fun if you think Casey would start a rookie point guard.
    I think if Masai is going to go for 'blow it up' option then it would be a tactical/unfair way to put pressure on casey and end up with a higher pick in 2014 ... but I'm suggesting it simply because I don't think Lowry is our answer at PG ... we'll see if Lowry -15 pounds + training camp = better fit

  9. #228
    Raptors Republic Superstar TRex's Avatar
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    Report: Mclemore's draft stock is reportedly slipping after some unimpressive workouts.

    What would it take to get this guy without giving up Gay, JV and DD?
    Follow me on Twitter - @11_RRyan

  10. #229
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    Report: Mclemore's draft stock is reportedly slipping after some unimpressive workouts.

    What would it take to get this guy without giving up Gay, JV and DD?
    I don't understand the appeal of obtaining McLemore while holding on to DD and to a lesser extent Gay.

    There are only so many minutes to go around.

    McLemore compliments both Gay and to a lesser extent DD much more than DD and Gay do anything for the other.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  11. #230
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    If McLemore or Bennett are available at 7 that would be interesting.

    Also meant to say in earlier post that Sacramento keep looking at Shabazz who has fallen hard to the mid teens while Milwaukee reportedly was high on KCP recently. No way KCP reaches 15.


    So even forgetting Toronto for a minute, it might appear MIL and SAC could become trade partners.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  12. #231
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    There are a lot of close relationships between the Raptors, Bucks, and Kings.


    Add one more penny to the thoughts...

    The new GM of the Nuggets, Tim Connelly, claims Masai as a friend and gave him a few props during his intro. They apparently did a lot of scouting internationally. TC is also involved with Basketball without Borders.

  13. #232
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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    Add one more penny to the thoughts...

    The new GM of the Nuggets, Tim Connelly, claims Masai as a friend and gave him a few props during his intro. They apparently did a lot of scouting internationally. TC is also involved with Basketball without Borders.
    I can actually see a trade between SAC/MIL/TOR.... not seeing anything with DEN - of course, that means NOTHING. Although Nuggets are thin at PF.


    Interesting how small the NBA really is.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  14. #233
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Call me crazy but I think Bargs will be moved trade night and perhaps Klieza in some sort of 2nd rounder deal.

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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    Call me crazy but I think Bargs will be moved trade night and perhaps Klieza in some sort of 2nd rounder deal.
    I doubt it but far from a crazy thought. It will really depend on how teams actually judge this draft vs what's being said. Only 10 kids have been invited to the green room so far so who knows how this draft is actually being evaluated...


    Last edited by blackjitsu; Sun Jun 23rd, 2013 at 10:51 PM.

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  17. #235
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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    Report: Mclemore's draft stock is reportedly slipping after some unimpressive workouts.

    What would it take to get this guy without giving up Gay, JV and DD?
    here's a thing ben mclemore once said:

    "it’s hard to play basketball when nothing is inside of you”

    alright now who all is still excited about ben mclemore?

  18. #236
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    I don't think there's any way Bennett falls past #3. The more i think about it the more i'd love him on the team, too. Despite all that stuff i said about him way back. I'm hot for him. Real hot.
    @jerboat

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    Quote chris wrote: View Post
    here's a thing ben mclemore once said:

    "it’s hard to play basketball when nothing is inside of you”

    alright now who all is still excited about ben mclemore?
    Did he just call himself Tin Man?

  20. #238
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    That quote just made me burst out laughing, causing water to shoot out my nose. Thanks for that, Ben McLemore.
    @jerboat

  21. #239
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    I understand, there is a daily avalanche of fan-mail filled with ideas that will guarantee a championship...

    Well, this is my humble hat being thrown in - the Toronto Raptors would be wise to acquire a high draft pick to take Victor Oladipo. His work ethic and athletic ability suggest that his rapid development is a trend that should continue.

    In the short term, he and JV form a defensive tandem that also boast the heart and hard work that Toronto sports fans love to cheer for...in the long term, those traits also happen to be essential to the pedigree of championship contender. Not to mention that these are two young men you can trust to act as ambassadors of the Raptors brand.

    Oladipo's the diamond in the much maligned rough of the 2013 draft. He could be our Russell Westbrook-like perimeter ace, but without the antics. Surely, that type of prospect would be worthy of a trade involving anyone from the Raptors core not named Jonas.

  22. #240
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    i agree Oladipo is going to be a heck of a player. If they want guys who are going to play defense and never stop fighting he's certainly what the doctor ordered.

    @jerboat

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