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Ujiri is trying to get in the draft, who you want?

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  • TRex wrote: View Post
    I want no part of Muhammad. Another one dimensional player. And Bullock at 12-15 is way too high.

    If the Raps somehow gets into that 12-15 range. They need to take either MCW, Larkin or Schroeder.
    at least Mohammed can shoot though. if dd were to be traded Mohammed is a good replacement. his defense won't be worse than demars and his shooting/driving will help. it's not like dd is a passer also .

    I think at 13 it's similar to when Davis fell to us and becomes best player available.

    http://www.nbadraft.net/players/shabazz-muhammad

    is just one write up but those strenghts are things this team craves besides brawndo.

    Comment


    • Miekenstien wrote: View Post
      at least Mohammed can shoot though. if dd were to be traded Mohammed is a good replacement. his defense won't be worse than demars and his shooting/driving will help. it's not like dd is a passer also .

      I think at 13 it's similar to when Davis fell to us and becomes best player available.

      http://www.nbadraft.net/players/shabazz-muhammad

      is just one write up but those strenghts are things this team craves besides brawndo.
      This post extremely DISRECPECTFUL! Ppl in this forum really don't give DD his credit. I don't know even where to start.
      @Chr1st1anL

      Comment


      • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
        This post extremely DISRECPECTFUL! Ppl in this forum really don't give DD his credit. I don't know even where to start.
        do you understand what "if" means? why a personal attack on a thought?

        when have I ever said anything but praise for demar? I don't appreciate being lumped in with others. I was commenting on shabazz on a thread about the draft and his hypothetical availability at 13.

        Comment


        • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
          This post extremely DISRECPECTFUL! Ppl in this forum really don't give DD his credit. I don't know even where to start.
          First, you're assuming that the people making these ridiculous statements have played basketball at a junior high level, or higher and understand what they are looking at. They don't. There's no point getting stressed because so many people have so little clue how good Demar is. It would help if they actually compared his stats to other SGs in the league, but that would destroy the irrational disrespect created after their "God" Andrea failed them. Just let it go. They need to vent.

          Comment


          • blackjitsu wrote: View Post
            First, you're assuming that the people making these ridiculous statements have played basketball at a junior high level, or higher and understand what they are looking at. They don't. There's no point getting stressed because so many people have so little clue how good Demar is. It would help if they actually compared his stats to other SGs in the league, but that would destroy the irrational disrespect created after their "God" Andrea failed them. Just let it go. They need to vent.

            this isn't a demar thread and i am not a hater or "picking on demar"
            but you asked for his stats and here they are compared with the other sg in the league and after this you can tell us it's an eye test that matters

            http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/holli...rueShootingPct

            ts% 38th
            asr 53rd
            tor 14th
            usr 11th
            orr 37th
            drr 23rd
            rr 31st
            per 18th
            va (don't know what this is meassuring) 9th
            ewa 9th

            god bless him, he plays his heart out, works the hardest on the team. but as fans if we can't even suggest he is moved "for what we believe to be the better of the team" (i am on here many times saying i'd rather lose Gay then demar) without a squadron of demar fan boys all butthurt and attacking us personally as unintelligent or not knowing what we're talking about, that's riduculous. but ignore everything i post because i just need to vent so anything i say has no merit. i'm blinded with hate.

            Comment


            • Miekenstien wrote: View Post
              do you understand what "if" means? why a personal attack on a thought?

              when have I ever said anything but praise for demar? I don't appreciate being lumped in with others. I was commenting on shabazz on a thread about the draft and his hypothetical availability at 13.
              I wasn't that upset. I was trying to be more funny than dramatic. I do agree that DD does get a lot of slack on this forum. Even though his known around the league as a top young SG. You don't get invested to USA mini camp of your not legit.
              @Chr1st1anL

              Comment


              • Miekenstien wrote: View Post
                this isn't a demar thread and i am not a hater or "picking on demar"
                but you asked for his stats and here they are compared with the other sg in the league and after this you can tell us it's an eye test that matters

                http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/holli...rueShootingPct

                ts% 38th
                asr 53rd
                tor 14th
                usr 11th
                orr 37th
                drr 23rd
                rr 31st
                per 18th
                va (don't know what this is meassuring) 9th
                ewa 9th

                god bless him, he plays his heart out, works the hardest on the team. but as fans if we can't even suggest he is moved "for what we believe to be the better of the team" (i am on here many times saying i'd rather lose Gay then demar) without a squadron of demar fan boys all butthurt and attacking us personally as unintelligent or not knowing what we're talking about, that's riduculous. but ignore everything i post because i just need to vent so anything i say has no merit. i'm blinded with hate.
                Yo, who said I was talking about you? Did I mention your name? If you want me to drag you into this okay. You're amazing at taking stats out of context to prove a point. There's a reason Demar is being invited to Team USA practices for the second year. Same reason Demar played more minutes than any other Raptor. I suspect the people making THOSE decisions have access to WAY better statistical analysis than you will EVER HAVE. They came up with a different conclusion from you. I'll take their analysis, knowledge, analytic data over yours EVERY DAY OF THE YEAR.

                Do you even know what these numbers mean? There are over 400 players in the NBA. Demar is in the top 10% in the league at every category you posted except assist rate, which we can assume is dominated by point guards.

                He is in the top 0.5% players in the statistics of Value Added (VA) -- you know a calculation that asks what his value is to his team in comparison to his teammates?
                And EWA -- ESTIMATED WINS ADDED -- This is an important one for someone who throws numbers without doing their homework. It also proves my point. Good luck with a comeback!

                So what have we learned today? Demar is in the top 10% of NBA players in numerous stats (not to forget the pace he gets to the line, minutes played, durability, etc) and is in the top 0.5% of the league in Value added to his team and Estimated Wins Added.

                Thanks for doing my work. For me It's a good thing I actually know how to read the numbers you're throwing at me.

                Comment


                • what comeback? you accused me of nit picking stats, then nit picked different ones, called me stupid a couple of times to show people your superior knowledge and said basketball professionals know more about basketball than I do because I didn't know that before. I thought I was a teacher because I was a tactical genius when it turns out I'm a teacher because I don't know what va is measuring.

                  all covered?

                  Comment


                  • What the hell, it's late and I'm bored. Let's drill deeper into YOUR numbers shall we? If Demar is in the top 10% in every category you have shared with us, so if positions are spread equally in the top 10% of these categories Demar would be in the top 2% of Shooting guards in the NBA. That would mean that according to your numbers Demar is a top 10 Shooting guard EASY.

                    Do I think he's top 10? No. But I'm also not on the bandwagon who want him traded. Demar is the type of player successful teams keep. I want every, young, end of bench player who comes to Toronto see that the 2nd highest paid player works as hard as someone trying to get their first pay cheque. THAT'S how you create a team ethos, culture, etc. If people see the guys getting paid in late, bustin' they tail, see people like Bargs being shipped out and boo'd for lackadaisical play, then maybe, MAYBE this team can become something.

                    Comment


                    • Miekenstien wrote: View Post
                      what comeback? you accused me of nit picking stats, then nit picked different ones, called me stupid a couple of times to show people your superior knowledge and said basketball professionals know more about basketball than I do because I didn't know that before. I thought I was a teacher because I was a tactical genius when it turns out I'm a teacher because I don't know what va is measuring.

                      all covered?
                      I never called you stupid. Stop being sensitive. The stats argue my case not yours. That's all I'm saying. How could I call someone I've never met stupid? That's a non-starter in my books. Everyone in the world has different skills, areas of knowledge...If you interpreted my statement as anything but me arguing my case, my apology.

                      Comment


                      • blackjitsu wrote: View Post
                        I never called you stupid. Stop being sensitive. The stats argue my case not yours. That's all I'm saying. How could I call someone I've never met stupid? That's a non-starter in my books. Everyone in the world has different skills, areas of knowledge...If you interpreted my statement as anything but me arguing my case, my apology.
                        I'm sorry for misinterpreting then and I do respect your opinion.

                        Comment


                        • again I want zeller, kabongo and Burke in that order if we happen to get into the draft.

                          Comment


                          • blackjitsu wrote: View Post
                            What the hell, it's late and I'm bored. Let's drill deeper into YOUR numbers shall we? If Demar is in the top 10% in every category you have shared with us, so if positions are spread equally in the top 10% of these categories Demar would be in the top 2% of Shooting guards in the NBA. That would mean that according to your numbers Demar is a top 10 Shooting guard EASY.

                            Do I think he's top 10? No. But I'm also not on the bandwagon who want him traded. Demar is the type of player successful teams keep. I want every, young, end of bench player who comes to Toronto see that the 2nd highest paid player works as hard as someone trying to get their first pay cheque. THAT'S how you create a team ethos, culture, etc. If people see the guys getting paid in late, bustin' they tail, see people like Bargs being shipped out and boo'd for lackadaisical play, then maybe, MAYBE this team can become something.
                            Those are some liberties in coming to conclusions but what the hell it is early and I'm awake.


                            Lets look at the basics first:

                            DeRozan is pretty much average to below average in every statistical category when it comes to other NBA SGs except PPG where he has more FGA and less efficiency:

                            http://www.thenbageek.com/players/co..._ids[]=318

                            Also if you factor in minutes played per game the win shares becomes dreadful as well.



                            Question: Does EWA have anything to do with the number of minutes played? Don't you think you are going to get some pretty skewed numbers comparing DeRozan at 36.7mpg to players playing less? DeRozan still looks pretty good at per36mins but he starts looking a lot more average.

                            Perfect examples:

                            DeRozan to Hayward.
                            DD = 36.7mpg for 6.5EWA; Hayward = 29.2mpg for 6.6EWA. per36mpg DD = 6.38; Hayward = 8.14.

                            DeRozan to CJ Miles:
                            DD = 36.7mpg for 6.5EWA; Miles = 21.0mpg for 3.3EWA. per36mpg DD = 6.38; Miles = 5.66.



                            What about DeRozan's net contributions?

                            on/off court: -1.4
                            http://www.82games.com/1213/1213TOR.HTM

                            OffRtg: 102.0
                            DefRtg: 104.3
                            Net: -2.4
                            http://stats.nba.com/playerStats.htm...erMode=PerGame



                            I admire and respect DeRozan's work ethic and commitment to his game. However, after 4 seasons in the league with 3 seasons of averaging around 36mpg, he is a known commodity. He might have another level to his game when it comes to efficiency (here is hoping he shed the inefficient volume scorer label) but for all the other areas like rebounding, assists, and defense, he is what he is.

                            As for the nitpicking on stats you accused Miekenstien of: pot meet kettle. Any argument can be supported with statistics or debunked with statistics as you did, as Miekenstien did, and as I just did. The difference in the arguments is the passive aggressiveness and emotional attachment you have displayed in drawing conclusions and analyzing data.
                            Last edited by mcHAPPY; Thu Jun 13, 2013, 08:50 AM. Reason: correction

                            Comment


                            • blackjitsu wrote: View Post
                              What the hell, it's late and I'm bored. Let's drill deeper into YOUR numbers shall we? If Demar is in the top 10% in every category you have shared with us, so if positions are spread equally in the top 10% of these categories Demar would be in the top 2% of Shooting guards in the NBA. That would mean that according to your numbers Demar is a top 10 Shooting guard EASY.

                              Do I think he's top 10? No. But I'm also not on the bandwagon who want him traded. Demar is the type of player successful teams keep. I want every, young, end of bench player who comes to Toronto see that the 2nd highest paid player works as hard as someone trying to get their first pay cheque. THAT'S how you create a team ethos, culture, etc. If people see the guys getting paid in late, bustin' they tail, see people like Bargs being shipped out and boo'd for lackadaisical play, then maybe, MAYBE this team can become something.
                              Just as a follow up to my previous reply to this. The first paragraph is ridiculous. I would like to address the first paragraph:

                              DeMar was not in the top 10% of these categories. The link given brought up SGs and 66 players. He was top 10% (6.6) in anything except minutes played.

                              If you meant to say top 10, then the only category is VA and EWA - but that is just for SGs - and, as my previous post detailed, it does not account for minutes played.

                              blackjitsu wrote: View Post
                              He is in the top 0.5% players in the statistics of Value Added (VA) -- you know a calculation that asks what his value is to his team in comparison to his teammates?
                              And EWA -- ESTIMATED WINS ADDED -- This is an important one for someone who throws numbers without doing their homework. It also proves my point. Good luck with a comeback!
                              The above is from a previous post of yours in this thread.

                              Again, fatal flaw in your argument is using the whole league (400 players) as a basis for your assertion that DeMar is in the top 0.5% of players for VA and EWA when the data you have used to come to this conclusion only included 66 shooting guards.

                              To put your statements in better context:

                              DD is 83rd in VA and tied for 82nd in EWA.

                              Of the 344 players listed when you click "All" that puts him in the top 24% which would put him as an average average starter. However if you put the results in to a per36 format, as I did previously, I think it is safe to say he would come in below average. DeRozan, when looking at the entire league, is 5th in total minutes played and tied for 16th in minutes per game.

                              To put DeMar in context with the other top 5 mpg players (Durant, Lillard, and Ellis), lets look at ranking on VA and EWA:

                              Player - VA - EWA

                              Durant - 2nd - 2nd
                              Kobe - 3rd - 3rd
                              Lillard - 46th - 46th
                              Ellis - 52nd - 52nd
                              DeMar - 83rd - 82nd
                              Last edited by mcHAPPY; Thu Jun 13, 2013, 11:04 AM. Reason: correction

                              Comment


                              • I could save you guys a lot of stat hunting and math.... DeMar DeRozan does just about everything in an average to slightly above average way. I call it the eye test...and although I love him as a person, he doesn't do anything at an elite level...not one single thing
                                For still frame photograph of me reading the DeRozan thread please refer to my avatar

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