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Thread: Jeff Weltman the new #2

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    You have to applaud the fact that TL and UM got the guy they wanted.. however looking at his resume I'm meh on the decision. He has experience and likes analytics but what has he really done that was remarkable?

    Milwaukee is one of the worst run teams in my opinion. They are the definition of mediocrity. Too good to get a bad pick in the draft, but too bad to go anywhere in the playoffs. They traded Harris (a Bobcats pick) for a guy that might bail in free agency. I like the Sanders and Henson picks.. but I don't really see any picks that blow me away either.

    Being a part of the Clippers franchise in the early 90's is also not something that gets me giddy.

    However.. that being said, Ujiri has the final say, and he wanted him to help him with his decisions. So I really hope it works out.

  2. #22
    Raptors Republic Veteran Bendit's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    You have to applaud the fact that TL and UM got the guy they wanted.. however looking at his resume I'm meh on the decision. He has experience and likes analytics but what has he really done that was remarkable?

    Milwaukee is one of the worst run teams in my opinion. They are the definition of mediocrity. Too good to get a bad pick in the draft, but too bad to go anywhere in the playoffs. They traded Harris (a Bobcats pick) for a guy that might bail in free agency. I like the Sanders and Henson picks.. but I don't really see any picks that blow me away either.

    Being a part of the Clippers franchise in the early 90's is also not something that gets me giddy.

    However.. that being said, Ujiri has the final say, and he wanted him to help him with his decisions. So I really hope it works out.
    It is of course very difficult to assign kudos or blame for any personnel decisions on a #2 man. He is after all not the final arbiter on the final decision. We dont even know how vehement he may have been against a specific decision. At this point the only thing that matters is your last sentence. And that JW wanted to come here though it seems money may have had something to do with it too.

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  4. #23
    Raptors Republic Superstar TRex's Avatar
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    Maybe he can convince the Bucks to trade their 15th overall pick to the Raptors
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  5. #24
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    You have to applaud the fact that TL and UM got the guy they wanted.. however looking at his resume I'm meh on the decision. He has experience and likes analytics but what has he really done that was remarkable?
    That's how I felt at first... But I mean Buford wasn't always Buford. Pop wasn't always Pop. Getting on at the ground floor is easier than trying to pry someone away from another organization. Not every team is Nuggets Cheap.

  6. #25
    Raptors Republic Starter phez's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    You have to applaud the fact that TL and UM got the guy they wanted.. however looking at his resume I'm meh on the decision. He has experience and likes analytics but what has he really done that was remarkable?

    Milwaukee is one of the worst run teams in my opinion. They are the definition of mediocrity. Too good to get a bad pick in the draft, but too bad to go anywhere in the playoffs. They traded Harris (a Bobcats pick) for a guy that might bail in free agency. I like the Sanders and Henson picks.. but I don't really see any picks that blow me away either.

    Being a part of the Clippers franchise in the early 90's is also not something that gets me giddy.

    However.. that being said, Ujiri has the final say, and he wanted him to help him with his decisions. So I really hope it works out.
    what exactly do think his job will be?

    and just a reminder of which team made playoffs and which didnt.

  7. #26
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote phez wrote: View Post
    what exactly do think his job will be?

    and just a reminder of which team made playoffs and which didnt.
    He's an assistant, so will work with Masai to create the best possible team.. however making the playoffs and being contenders are two completely different things. The Bucks were never contenders and losing 4-0 to the Heat prove that.

    TL does not want to be a 7-11 team however the Bucks were in the range for the past 5 years (they were 6th in 2009 and 12th in 2008). I'm not saying every decision was Weltman's and I do put most of the blame on Hammond's shoulders, but he was partly responsible.

    Look, it could work out, and UM and he could be great together.. but when Tim indicated that he was putting together a really good front office, I can't say that I was super excited after seeing Weltman's name pop-up. Just like I wasn't excited to see Stefanski's name pop-up last year.

  8. #27
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    He's an assistant, so will work with Masai to create the best possible team.. however making the playoffs and being contenders are two completely different things. The Bucks were never contenders and losing 4-0 to the Heat prove that.

    TL does not want to be a 7-11 team however the Bucks were in the range for the past 5 years (they were 6th in 2009 and 12th in 2008). I'm not saying every decision was Weltman's and I do put most of the blame on Hammond's shoulders, but he was partly responsible.

    Look, it could work out, and UM and he could be great together.. but when Tim indicated that he was putting together a really good front office, I can't say that I was super excited after seeing Weltman's name pop-up. Just like I wasn't excited to see Stefanski's name pop-up last year.
    I'll admit that Weltman wasn't the obvious choice based on TLs rhetoric. Far from it actually.
    But I imagine this was more a decision made by Ujiri, than TL.
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  9. #28
    Raptors Republic Starter phez's Avatar
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    so what, phil jackson or bust for assistant gm?

    how about listing off who else and from what franchise instead you'd have swiped to fill the assistant gm role?

  10. #29
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    He's an assistant, so will work with Masai to create the best possible team.. however making the playoffs and being contenders are two completely different things. The Bucks were never contenders and losing 4-0 to the Heat prove that.

    TL does not want to be a 7-11 team however the Bucks were in the range for the past 5 years (they were 6th in 2009 and 12th in 2008). I'm not saying every decision was Weltman's and I do put most of the blame on Hammond's shoulders, but he was partly responsible.

    Look, it could work out, and UM and he could be great together.. but when Tim indicated that he was putting together a really good front office, I can't say that I was super excited after seeing Weltman's name pop-up. Just like I wasn't excited to see Stefanski's name pop-up last year.
    One thing he has in his favour is he is a guy well respected around the league. You are not finalists for GM positions if you are not highly thought of - at least I think.

    From reading about him, I believe his strengths are knowledge of the CBA, talent evaluation, and advanced statistical analysis.

    Also the Bucks have been one of the more active teams on the trade front over the last 2 years. I think he would have had a hand in that.

    I guess if you want an indication of what he has been a part of, here is John Hammond's body of work as Bucks GM:

    http://hoopshype.com/general_managers/john_hammond.htm


    In Weltman's defense, he was hired AFTER the Joe Alexander debacle and there has not been another one of those in the last 5 years
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  11. #30
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote phez wrote: View Post
    so what, phil jackson or bust for assistant gm?

    how about listing off who else and from what franchise instead you'd have swiped to fill the assistant gm role?
    I would prefer a guy that was involved with a reputable organization.. like San Antonio, LAL, Boston, Denver, OKC/Seattle, Houston, Utah, or Dallas.

    If I was trying to get the best of the best then I would be targeting guys who helped build those teams.

  12. #31
    Raptors Republic Starter phez's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    I would prefer a guy that was involved with a reputable organization.. like San Antonio, LAL, Boston, Denver, OKC/Seattle, Houston, Utah, or Dallas.

    If I was trying to get the best of the best then I would be targeting guys who helped build those teams.
    the problem is do you think those people would ever leave those franchises to come work for the raptors? and remember they wont even be getting a promotion, just a horizontal move to a team that may or may not succeed in the coming years.

    or of course, MLSE can always throw dollars at them.

  13. #32
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    I'll admit that Weltman wasn't the obvious choice based on TLs rhetoric. Far from it actually.
    But I imagine this was more a decision made by Ujiri, than TL.
    It could be that Weltman is thought much more highly around the league than Raptor fans (or any fans) are aware.

    I don't know. Just throwing the possibility out there. A move that impresses front office staff around the league is likely to be a move that goes under the radar for fans or vice versa.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
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  15. #33
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    It could be that Weltman is thought much more highly around the league than Raptor fans (or any fans) are aware.

    I don't know. Just throwing the possibility out there. A move that impresses front office staff around the league is likely to be a move that goes under the radar for fans or vice versa.
    Absolutely agree.
    And didn't mean that in a way to take away from the hiring. Like I said earlier, I like the hiring. I think he'll be able to utilize our Analytics numbers as good, or far better than anyone else they could have brought in. And that's the way of the future for the NBA.

    I'm just saying that "Jeff Weltman" is about as unglamorous a hire as could have been made.
    Not saying glamorous is good. Just saying that that is likely what a lot of Fans expected based on what TL has been saying.
    I expected Ujiri to make this a strategic decision. Not glamorous, so I'm fine with the hire.
    "I just dunked. Got a little dunk. Thatís nice." Terrence Ross

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  17. #34
    Raptors Republic Veteran Bendit's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Absolutely agree.
    And didn't mean that in a way to take away from the hiring. Like I said earlier, I like the hiring. I think he'll be able to utilize our Analytics numbers as good, or far better than anyone else they could have brought in. And that's the way of the future for the NBA.

    I'm just saying that "Jeff Weltman" is about as unglamorous a hire as could have been made.
    Not saying glamorous is good. Just saying that that is likely what a lot of Fans expected based on what TL has been saying.
    I expected Ujiri to make this a strategic decision. Not glamorous, so I'm fine with the hire.
    Well said.

    One of the more pleasant things imo that Ujiri said at his presser was when he interlocked his fingers and said (paraphrase) "we are going to be one" referring to management, coaching and the team. Communications at all levels will be at a premium. With that in view, he probably made a hire here with someone he knew well (JW recommended him for his first hire in Denver), shares his vision of team building and of course capability on various aspects of managing a basketball franchise. MU also probably knows exactly how pivotal JW's decision making has been in his career. So, including the fact JW has interviewed for a number #1 positions confirming his status in the NBA, we should for the first while trust that MU knows what he is doing and is executing a plan.

  18. #35
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    I'm a bit impartial about this hiring but that is just because I know nothing about him. Everything I've read so far has just been the usual lip service. Great that he's a analytical guy, but isn't everyone these days? It's the trendy thing to do these day to hire analytics guys. Unless he's an analytics guru it's difficult to get excited. I'm taking a wait and see approach

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  20. #36
    Raptors Republic All-Star grindhouse's Avatar
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    I am not a fan of statistics but I do see the benefit of it.

    I think your eyes and knowledge are the best tools. I really hope that his team goes in the direction of half court offense, no lay up defense

  21. #37
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Somebody is sure to step into Weltman's role with Milwaukee, and I expect he or she will do an admirable job. But losing a smart, experienced person from the front office is never a good thing for an NBA team. We wish Jeff all the best in Toronto. We'll miss him.

    http://www.brewhoop.com/2013/6/10/44...ve-after-draft
    Bucks fan site take on losing Weltman.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
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  23. #38
    Raptors Republic Veteran Bendit's Avatar
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    We'll probably be saying the same when Weltman gets his first GM job! Apart from all the other reasons, he is coming to TO because I think he probably sees a higher upside to his position here than in Milwaukee. If TO does well rebuilding the team his resume looks better and may take him over the top during his next gm interview.

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    I would argue that Weltman has the potential to push analytics beyond what Toronto previously did, and I hope that can help with drafting and building talent.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote drunkmunky wrote: View Post
    I would argue that Weltman has the potential to push analytics beyond what Toronto previously did, and I hope that can help with drafting and building talent.
    Has the current managment group done that poor of a job drafting the last couple of years? We'll have to wait and see with Ross since he hasn't received steady pt yet, but JV, ED?

    Anyone know whom else Weltman interviewed with? Was anyone else after him?

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