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Thread: Raptors Rebuild Blueprint Discussion

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  1. #1

    Default Raptors Rebuild Blueprint Discussion

    Old Roster (73 mill)

    Jonas/Gray
    Amir/Bargs/Acy
    Gay/Fields/Anderson/Kleiza/Pietrus
    Derozan/Ross
    Lowry/Lucas/Telfair

    Roster Moves

    Trades

    Gay for 2nd overall pick + 2014 2nd rounder/D12 TPE from ORL
    Bargs/Lowry for Thornton (2 years)/Hayes (2 yrs) from SAC

    Draft

    Draft Trey Burke (or MCW) preferably Trey due to known quantity

    Free Agents

    Sign CJ Watson (7 mil/3 yrs)
    Sign Anthony Morrow (3 mil/2 yrs)
    Amnesty Kleiza
    Let Lucas+Anderson Walk
    Sign Carl Landry (18 mil/3 yrs)
    Resign telfair at 3 mil/2 yrs

    New roster (61.38 mil)

    Jonas (3.4/3)/Gray (2.7/1)/Hayes (5.7/2)
    Amir (6.5/2)/Landry (6/3)/Acy (.8/2)
    Demar (9.5/4)/Fields (6.25/2)/ Morrow (1.5/2)
    Thornton (8/2)/Ross (2.7/3)
    Burke (4.5/4)/Watson (2.33/3)/Telfair (1.5/2)


    30 Million coming off the books for the 2015 free agency period
    This class includes Aldridge, Melo, Marc Gasol, Deandre Jordan, Kyrie, Z-Bo, Rondo, Rubio, Amare, Klay Thompson, Kemba, Asik, Bass, Boozer, Jimmy Butler, Marshon Brooks, Tyson Chandler, Nick Collison, Big Baby, Faried, Rudy, Danny Green, Tobias Harris, Haslem, Reggie Jackson (he’s gonna be good), Amir, Wes Matthews, Kanter, Kawhi, Lin, Morris Bros, Jameer, Parsons, Scola, Shumpert, Shved, Singler, Varejao, Vucevic

    By doing this we create a three pronged attack of JV from the low post, Demar from the high post, mid range, and slashing, Amir for the clean up work and rebounding and Burke and Ross/Thornton are able to effectively spread the floor from the perimeter. Additionally we add an influx of three point shooters with Burke, Thornton, Watson, Morrow, Fields' (hopefully) repaired shot form, and an improved Ross. Maybe Demar will even chip in, who knows, plus Amir has said that he has been working on his three pointer (lol). We also significantly strengthen our bench with the presence of either ross or Thornton as fairly effective sixth men, a low post-scoring presence in Carl Landry, a rejuvenated Landry Fields, and a proven backup pg and 3 pt shooter in Watson. Most importantly, it allows us to showcase our youth without having an unfocused group like the kings.

    Once the 2015 free agency class comes around, we will only have Jonas, Demar, Trey Burke, Ross, Carl Landry and Harris on the roster and 30 mill coming off the books which should give us more than enough capital to throw at free agents like Amir, Gasol, Aldridge, Jordan, Rondo or Rubio (if Burke doesn't work), Klay Thompson, Asik, Green, Butler, Faried, Harris, Kawhi, Parsons, Shved, Varejao, etc...(no melo please).

    2014 Draft
    This is probably the most important part of this whole exercise, to get into the high lottery for the 2014 draft. This team would probably get into the 4-10 range where there is an array of solid players to add to our team. Who knows, maybe the league'll smile on us and give us Wiggins. The following year we could be challenging for the playoffs but would probably be a lottery team again giving us a chance at a lottery pick before the aforementioned free agency period in 2015. Ultimately, more minutes/touches for youth, more shooters, better spot in 2014 draft, and more money for free agents.Predicted Record: 27-55

  2. #2
    Raptors Republic All-Star Red and White's Avatar
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    How do you have confidence that the Raps would net a star (or multiple high quality players) in free agency? So much confidence that you even reject Melo signing here.

    Based on history, not too likely that happens.

  3. #3

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    I wasn't saying that we necessarily land a star player, just that we have money to spend during a fairly solid free agency year according to my plan. The reason I reject Melo is because he takes shots away from an entire team and will in all likelihood not leave NYC.

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    This whole plan is WAY too widely dependent on assumptions and luck. Not even remotely possible. Not even in an alternate universe.

  5. #5

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    The assumptions being that we can parlay Lowry and bargnani into two overpriced players Sacramento has no need for, trade Rudy Gay for the number two pick in a notoriously weak draft, sign some low-level free agents to fill out our bench. Then have a decent lottery pick in a very strong draft and pick up, let's say, Glenn Robinson. Follow that up with a solid free agent next year when we have a shit ton of cap space and even more cap space in 2 years. They're not assumptions, it's called a plan and its unfortunate that Toronto has lacked one seeing past next week for so long that it can't be recognized.

  6. #6
    Raptors Republic All-Star Primer's Avatar
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    Quote [email protected] wrote: View Post
    Old Roster (73 mill)

    Jonas/Gray
    Amir/Bargs/Acy
    Gay/Fields/Anderson/Kleiza/Pietrus
    Derozan/Ross
    Lowry/Lucas/Telfair

    Roster Moves

    Trades

    Gay for 2nd overall pick + 2014 2nd rounder/D12 TPE from ORL
    Bargs/Lowry for Thornton (2 years)/Hayes (2 yrs) from SAC

    Draft

    Draft Trey Burke (or MCW) preferably Trey due to known quantity

    Free Agents

    Sign CJ Watson (7 mil/3 yrs)
    Sign Anthony Morrow (3 mil/2 yrs)
    Amnesty Kleiza
    Let Lucas+Anderson Walk
    Sign Carl Landry (18 mil/3 yrs)
    Resign telfair at 3 mil/2 yrs

    New roster (61.38 mil)

    Jonas (3.4/3)/Gray (2.7/1)/Hayes (5.7/2)
    Amir (6.5/2)/Landry (6/3)/Acy (.8/2)
    Demar (9.5/4)/Fields (6.25/2)/ Morrow (1.5/2)
    Thornton (8/2)/Ross (2.7/3)
    Burke (4.5/4)/Watson (2.33/3)/Telfair (1.5/2)


    30 Million coming off the books for the 2015 free agency period
    This class includes Aldridge, Melo, Marc Gasol, Deandre Jordan, Kyrie, Z-Bo, Rondo, Rubio, Amare, Klay Thompson, Kemba, Asik, Bass, Boozer, Jimmy Butler, Marshon Brooks, Tyson Chandler, Nick Collison, Big Baby, Faried, Rudy, Danny Green, Tobias Harris, Haslem, Reggie Jackson (he’s gonna be good), Amir, Wes Matthews, Kanter, Kawhi, Lin, Morris Bros, Jameer, Parsons, Scola, Shumpert, Shved, Singler, Varejao, Vucevic

    By doing this we create a three pronged attack of JV from the low post, Demar from the high post, mid range, and slashing, Amir for the clean up work and rebounding and Burke and Ross/Thornton are able to effectively spread the floor from the perimeter. Additionally we add an influx of three point shooters with Burke, Thornton, Watson, Morrow, Fields' (hopefully) repaired shot form, and an improved Ross. Maybe Demar will even chip in, who knows, plus Amir has said that he has been working on his three pointer (lol). We also significantly strengthen our bench with the presence of either ross or Thornton as fairly effective sixth men, a low post-scoring presence in Carl Landry, a rejuvenated Landry Fields, and a proven backup pg and 3 pt shooter in Watson. Most importantly, it allows us to showcase our youth without having an unfocused group like the kings.

    Once the 2015 free agency class comes around, we will only have Jonas, Demar, Trey Burke, Ross, Carl Landry and Harris on the roster and 30 mill coming off the books which should give us more than enough capital to throw at free agents like Amir, Gasol, Aldridge, Jordan, Rondo or Rubio (if Burke doesn't work), Klay Thompson, Asik, Green, Butler, Faried, Harris, Kawhi, Parsons, Shved, Varejao, etc...(no melo please).

    2014 Draft
    This is probably the most important part of this whole exercise, to get into the high lottery for the 2014 draft. This team would probably get into the 4-10 range where there is an array of solid players to add to our team. Who knows, maybe the league'll smile on us and give us Wiggins. The following year we could be challenging for the playoffs but would probably be a lottery team again giving us a chance at a lottery pick before the aforementioned free agency period in 2015. Ultimately, more minutes/touches for youth, more shooters, better spot in 2014 draft, and more money for free agents.Predicted Record: 27-55
    Don't let the guys poo-poohing your ideas get you down. I think this was a well thought out post, regardless of how realistic it all is. I really like the Gay trade and really hate the Lowry trade.

    It sounds an awful lot like Ujiri is gearing up for some kind of rebuild, and Gay is sure to be his "Melo-esque" trade piece that we should deal now to maximize his value. If we aren't going to contend for championships over the next 2 seasons (which is the stated goal of Ujiri), than keeping Gay around makes very little sense. On the other hand, Gay is a very desirable piece for any team looking to contend now as one of the premier SF's in the NBA. I think Colangelo won the Gay trade and I think Ujiri can turn Gay into some great assets for our future. Your Gay trade is a nice example of something we could expect in return, but I'm sure there are a million different scenarios of where we could send Gay and what we would get in return.

    As for your second trade, I hate it. Thornton and Hayes are both garbage in my eyes, and I don't want to send out Lowry for garbage in return. Lowry is a great PG and on one of the best contracts in the NBA. There will be a nice sized market for a player like Lowry (everyone who strikes out on Chris Paul). If you need a PG, would you want to spend $6M on Lowry or $12M on Jennings? I think it's a no brainer to go for Lowry and I think everyone who misses out on Paul would love to get their hands on Lowry.
    I know dumping Bargs would be nice, but I don't want to package him with Lowry and lower Lowry's value. Maybe just send out Bargs for Salmons straight up, that way we have a replacement for Gay who won't win us a bunch of games but will keep us respectable.

  7. #7

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    Quote Primer wrote: View Post
    As for your second trade, I hate it. Thornton and Hayes are both garbage in my eyes, and I don't want to send out Lowry for garbage in return. Lowry is a great PG and on one of the best contracts in the NBA. There will be a nice sized market for a player like Lowry (everyone who strikes out on Chris Paul). If you need a PG, would you want to spend $6M on Lowry or $12M on Jennings? I think it's a no brainer to go for Lowry and I think everyone who misses out on Paul would love to get their hands on Lowry.
    I know dumping Bargs would be nice, but I don't want to package him with Lowry and lower Lowry's value. Maybe just send out Bargs for Salmons straight up, that way we have a replacement for Gay who won't win us a bunch of games but will keep us respectable.
    I don't dislike Lowry, I think he's a solid pg but the issue would be finding minutes for Trey Burke if we were to acquire him. I do disagree with Thornton being garbage, he never got the minutes in Sacramento's chaotic rotation to follow up on 19ppg campaign and 21 ppg for the last 17 games of the season the year before that. I would consider it a down year. We obviously wouldn't be asking him to put up 19 a game but just to provide a consistent 12-13 ppg and some solid 3 point shooting playing behind Ross and Derozan. Hayes is just filler. There are also very few trades which would have us getting anything that could contribute for Bargnani. So seeing as how we would be getting a new pg, it would be better to jettison Lowry and Bargnani than neither.

  8. #8
    Raptors Republic Rookie vino's Avatar
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    Quote Primer wrote: View Post
    Don't let the guys poo-poohing your ideas get you down. I think this was a well thought out post, regardless of how realistic it all is.
    I second that. A few good points in the original post: get rid of Gay for the exact reasons mentioned and free up $ cap space. If/when MLSE turns this thing around and players suddenly see the true value of playing in Toronto (TL wish), we could certainly use the $ on one/two players from the long list. With a combined ability (?) of Ujiri to sign players to reasonable contract (minus J McGee), it should be a solid plan. One the them....

  9. #9
    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
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    Hypothetical according to who? you? What are you basing this hypothesis on?
    If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

    Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

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  11. #11
    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
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    Quote [email protected] wrote: View Post
    Am I misusing hypothetical?
    I think so. You need to insert the word "my" or "possible"..your making me think you have inside information or something..
    If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

    Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie JStockton's Avatar
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    ORL has - and wants to develop - Harris and Harkless (not to mention Turkoglu and Harrington) in the SF (or PF in small ball) position. I don't think they'd want Gay. What they need is a PG.

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    Quote JStockton wrote: View Post
    ORL has - and wants to develop - Harris and Harkless (not to mention Turkoglu and Harrington) in the SF (or PF in small ball) position. I don't think they'd want Gay. What they need is a PG.
    Exactly, which is why when considering Rudy Gay trades you need to target teams that are looking for a decent starting SF or who want to upgrade to "near star" level at that position, and who don't necessarily want to spend cash on Josh Smith or Andre Iguodala. Your short list is Cleveland, Dallas, both LA teams, New Orleans, Philly, Phoenix, Sacramento and Washington.

  14. #14
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    Just wondering what do you think Lowry will command next offseason?
    We're going to pay him about $6.2 million.
    Assume he has another season like we just saw, does that number decrease?
    Assume he brings in a consistent game every day putting good, but not extraordinary numbers. How much more do you think we'd need to pay to keep him?
    Entourage: Harvey - "E (BC) was right, there's genius in this (Bargnani)"
    Ari - "You wanna buy it?"
    Harvey - "I do, for a dollar"

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Primer's Avatar
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    Quote ahoang wrote: View Post
    Just wondering what do you think Lowry will command next offseason?
    We're going to pay him about $6.2 million.
    Assume he has another season like we just saw, does that number decrease?
    Assume he brings in a consistent game every day putting good, but not extraordinary numbers. How much more do you think we'd need to pay to keep him?
    Hard to say right now as we really haven't seen the effect of the new CBA yet on free agents. I'd expect Lowry to get similar money to whatever Jeff Teague ends up with in free agency this year. I'm gonna guess around $8M but like I said really hard to tell at this point. Guys like Josh Smith want max deals but rumors are he won't get much more than $10M so the CBA could really push down salaries.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Tempted to move this to the trade discussion board but I know I'll only be doing it again in a weeks time. Proceed but let's try to not make this a trade scenario dominated thread.

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    Sorry, Apollo.

  18. #18
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Tempted to move this to the trade discussion board but I know I'll only be doing it again in a weeks time. Proceed but let's try to not make this a trade scenario dominated thread.
    The same original post was also posted in the stickied "Read this First" thread that Matt started. I moved that one to the Trade Forum, before stumbling across this thread...

  19. #19
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    http://http://bluemanhoop.com/2013/06/09/golden-state-warriors-revisiting-a-possible-andrea-bargnani-trade/

    I just tried to post, but I think it got lost. Anyway, Biedrins for Bargnani clears money off the books a year earlier and Biedrins might surprise us in a contract year. The guy is an elite blocker when he's dialed in and his problems are all mental (so a change of scenery might do him good) though we'd all have to turn and look away when he gets to the line, lol.

  20. #20
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    I think it is a good thread to have going considering it looks like blowing it up is on the table.

    Now that BC is no longer making decisions, we can't be certain anyone from MLSE is snooping on those dirty ol' "bloggers" but, hey, you never know. lol
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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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