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Thread: Colangelo's Acquisition of Gay..

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic All-Star Primer's Avatar
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    Planetmars and Matt52 hit the nail on the head. This was BC's best trade ever, and was a huge win for the Raptors. With an imminent rebuild looming I see Gay being dealt, but I'm ecstatic we have a player like Gay as an asset to trade. We converted several low value assets into a high value asset. As long as you don't get too attached to players (looking at you BC), then dealing low value for high value is always a good idea, even if it doesn't make a ton of roster sense at the time. The roster can always be adjusted in subsequent moves (one of BC's biggest failures was thinking one move was enough).
    We have people in the forums saying they wouldn't deal Gay for the #1 or #2 pick in this years draft. That's how high his value is perceived. It'd be a cold day in hell before anyone talks about Ed Davis like that.

  2. #22
    Raptors Republic Starter phez's Avatar
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    I would argue BC probably didn't think as far as using Gay as a trade asset. This is speaking entirely on his past moves.

    We much pretty much got nothing in return for every failed acquisition in the past. I don't need to start with Bosh.

  3. #23
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Gay dealt to Cleavland for both their #1s would be fair trade. Draft Trey Burke with the #1

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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    Gay dealt to Cleavland for both their #1s would be fair trade. Draft Trey Burke with the #1
    I was all over Trey Burke when he was in the 10-18 range.

    I am not so sure a top 5 pick is worth him.

    One thing to keep in mind is the strong PG crop coming out next year. Smart, Harrison, Exum, and Micic are all 6'4"-6'6".

    Another thing to keep in mind is a lot can change in the next 12 months.
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  5. #25
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    raps could trade Gay and or DeMAr for Clevelands first start the rebuild draft Trey Burke with the #1 and Reggie Bullock with the #19 wing great rebounder a great 3 point shot and plays D.

    So Either....Gay or DeMar to Cleveland for #1 and #19

    Raps line up going into 2013-14 season with this one trade...

    Burke
    Bullock or Ross (If DeMar is moved)
    DeMar Or Bullock (If Gay is moved)
    Amir
    JV

  6. #26
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Another thing to keep in mind is a lot can change in the next 12 months.
    Absolutely. Look at Kabongo as a great example of a highly touted PG out of high school plummeting down the ranks.

  7. #27
    Raptors Republic Superstar TRex's Avatar
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    In today's NBA, you gotta have an elite winger that can score if you want to win games.

    I'm not saying Gay is elite. But he's not bad. Best wing guy we've had since VC by far. If you move him, now what?

    You only move Gay if you plan on blowing up the team and tanking for Wiggins or Parker. That's it.
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  9. #28
    Raptors Republic Starter Papa Burgundy's Avatar
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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    In today's NBA, you gotta have an elite winger that can score if you want to win games.

    I'm not saying Gay is elite. But he's not bad. Best wing guy we've had since VC by far. If you move him, now what?

    You only move Gay if you plan on blowing up the team and tanking for Wiggins or Parker. That's it.
    I agree with this ... A move of Demar could still be a building move, but moving Rudy says "we're pushing reset".
    I actually don't want that. I know Masai is building for a ring, but as a fan - I am ready for some postseason.
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  11. #29
    Raptors Republic Veteran Bendit's Avatar
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    No doubt a difficult decision however circumstances (offers) may force Ujiri's hand one way or the other including the fundamental "does Gay want to be here long term" question.

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    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Quote Papa Burgundy wrote: View Post
    I agree with this ... A move of Demar could still be a building move, but moving Rudy says "we're pushing reset".
    I actually don't want that. I know Masai is building for a ring, but as a fan - I am ready for some postseason.
    We could also consider Gay being one of those second tier stars that you barely find. He's a talented player, and I feel he is a piece that this team can build WITH in order to contend. Goodness, he is a small forward with a lot intangibles, such as winning games at the end, very good on-ball defender when he puts his mind to it, great size around 6'8, 6'9, and a terrific rebounder for the SF position. Pierce, Durant, LeBron, George, Deng.. Who else?

  13. #31
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    Gay dealt to Cleavland for both their #1s would be fair trade. Draft Trey Burke with the #1
    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I was all over Trey Burke when he was in the 10-18 range.

    I am not so sure a top 5 pick is worth him.

    One thing to keep in mind is the strong PG crop coming out next year. Smart, Harrison, Exum, and Micic are all 6'4"-6'6".

    Another thing to keep in mind is a lot can change in the next 12 months.
    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    raps could trade Gay and or DeMAr for Clevelands first start the rebuild draft Trey Burke with the #1 and Reggie Bullock with the #19 wing great rebounder a great 3 point shot and plays D.

    So Either....Gay or DeMar to Cleveland for #1 and #19

    Raps line up going into 2013-14 season with this one trade...

    Burke
    Bullock or Ross (If DeMar is moved)
    DeMar Or Bullock (If Gay is moved)
    Amir
    JV
    Veering off-topic, boys..

    Quote ReubenJRD wrote: View Post
    We could also consider Gay being one of those second tier stars that you barely find. He's a talented player, and I feel he is a piece that this team can build WITH in order to contend. Goodness, he is a small forward with a lot intangibles, such as winning games at the end, very good on-ball defender when he puts his mind to it, great size around 6'8, 6'9, and a terrific rebounder for the SF position. Pierce, Durant, LeBron, George, Deng.. Who else?
    I agree. I hope Gay stays, haven't had a wing player of gay's caliber in a loong time. You don't just trade him..unless iit's a for sure that he's not interested in staying.
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  15. #32
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    If this group of guys are serious about winning. Then there is no reason to blow things up

  16. #33
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    Gay dealt to Cleavland for both their #1s would be fair trade. Draft Trey Burke with the #1
    I would trade that first pick away for more. I think you can get Burke with 3. I think Orlando wants Burke but not at 2 and are trying to get another assets as well.

    I don't think the Gay trade was planned for at all. I also think that bc would have given demar his money if we had Gay last off season too.

    for me trading a 3rd string pf and a second rounder for Gay was a great move. unfortunately it came with 30 million in baggage.

  17. #34
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    For the past few years everyone has touted the Raptors' financial flexibility. I think that Colangelo found out that having capspace was overrated unless your team was a serious contender for a top-shelf FA. Since the Raptors were not, another logical approach would be to use the financial room (and the owners' willingness to spend) to bring in a talented option to fill the most glaring hole in the line-up. Gay is overpaid in today's NBA, but he was an instant substantial upgrade on the wing, where the Raptors have struggled for a number of years. The price was very low, in basketball terms. The other price was lack of cap space going into the off-season, but if they wanted to bring in a top-flight player through free-agency, then they would have had to overpay a different player, and for a longer term. That's the nature of free agency.

  18. #35
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Bouncepass wrote: View Post
    For the past few years everyone has touted the Raptors' financial flexibility. I think that Colangelo found out that having capspace was overrated unless your team was a serious contender for a top-shelf FA. Since the Raptors were not, another logical approach would be to use the financial room (and the owners' willingness to spend) to bring in a talented option to fill the most glaring hole in the line-up. Gay is overpaid in today's NBA, but he was an instant substantial upgrade on the wing, where the Raptors have struggled for a number of years. The price was very low, in basketball terms. The other price was lack of cap space going into the off-season, but if they wanted to bring in a top-flight player through free-agency, then they would have had to overpay a different player, and for a longer term. That's the nature of free agency.
    Cap space is for more than free agency.

    The Raptors did exactly what they would have done with the cap space by trading for Gay.

    The problem is the extension given to DeMar has now put them over the luxury tax without other moves. If Colangelo had waited, they could have matched any offer, and been able to avail of sign and trades without having to use the amnesty.
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  20. #36
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Cap space is for more than free agency.

    The Raptors did exactly what they would have done with the cap space by trading for Gay.

    The problem is the extension given to DeMar has now put them over the luxury tax without other moves. If Colangelo had waited, they could have matched any offer, and been able to avail of sign and trades without having to use the amnesty.
    Sure, but they might have ended up paying just as much for DeMar, and in the meantime seriously eroded his sense of commitment to the team. I think that we should wait and see whether DeRozan and Gay really mesh this year and give the Raptors a strong wing presence. If not, they'll have Gay's contract as an expiring the following year at which time they can look in another direction. I think the jury is still out on those moves until we see them for a full season, especially now that JV is coming into his own. I guess I'm not as pessimistic as many others are about the team's composition right now. I think they could be good, with a couple of key tweaks here and there.

  21. #37
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Bouncepass wrote: View Post
    Sure, but they might have ended up paying just as much for DeMar, and in the meantime seriously eroded his sense of commitment to the team. I think that we should wait and see whether DeRozan and Gay really mesh this year and give the Raptors a strong wing presence. If not, they'll have Gay's contract as an expiring the following year at which time they can look in another direction. I think the jury is still out on those moves until we see them for a full season, especially now that JV is coming into his own. I guess I'm not as pessimistic as many others are about the team's composition right now. I think they could be good, with a couple of key tweaks here and there.
    I'm not interested in discussing the compatibility of Gay and DD in this thread. That discussion has been had and is ongoing elsewhere.

    The bold is true, but the Raptors just as easily could have paid less. Mayo getting a 2 year deal at $4.2M per season (player option for 2nd) comes to mind.

    With regards to DD sense of commitment to the team, that is also true. However players always say it is a business and that rubs both ways. Players do what is best for them and teams do what is best for the organization. The Raptors held all the leverage in waiting and it also provided them with more opportunities and flexibility in shaping the roster with the full MLE at their disposal and the ability to sign and trade.
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  22. #38
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I'm not interested in discussing the compatibility of Gay and DD in this thread. That discussion has been had and is ongoing elsewhere.

    The bold is true, but the Raptors just as easily could have paid less. Mayo getting a 2 year deal at $4.2M per season (player option for 2nd) comes to mind.

    With regards to DD sense of commitment to the team, that is also true. However players always say it is a business and that rubs both ways. Players do what is best for them and teams do what is best for the organization. The Raptors held all the leverage in waiting and it also provided them with more opportunities and flexibility in shaping the roster with the full MLE at their disposal and the ability to sign and trade.
    Okay. I thought that this thread was specifically about the acquisition of Gay, not the advisability of DD's contract.

  23. #39
    Raptors Republic Starter torch19's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I'm not interested in discussing the compatibility of Gay and DD in this thread. That discussion has been had and is ongoing elsewhere.

    The bold is true, but the Raptors just as easily could have paid less. Mayo getting a 2 year deal at $4.2M per season (player option for 2nd) comes to mind.

    With regards to DD sense of commitment to the team, that is also true. However players always say it is a business and that rubs both ways. Players do what is best for them and teams do what is best for the organization. The Raptors held all the leverage in waiting and it also provided them with more opportunities and flexibility in shaping the roster with the full MLE at their disposal and the ability to sign and trade.
    I agree with what you are saying & if I remember correctly, Portland did the same thing about Batum. However, you run the risk of having a team come in & offer something way above his market value -- which leaves the Raptors in a difficult position to let go of your homegrown talent v matching the ridiculous offer; and this all happened before the Rudy Gay trade.

    But I'm with you when you say that cap space is for more than free agency. Cap management, along with asset management are the 2 most important areas you have to excel at as a team. Colangelo manages to acquire cap space but blows it all of on a shopping spree -- instead of managing the cap in a way that keeps flexibility going forward. He really went all in & it blew up on his face, which is why he is no longer the GM.

    I like the idea of having a cap manager (our new Asst. GM position), I like the idea of having a different scouting team for proper talent evaluation, I like the idea of structuring the organization in a way where our GM only has to worry about the basketball operations. I like the idea of a 5 year GM -- where he can implement a long term plan in improving our team.

    What I expect is Ujiri parlaying our assets into more assets gradually & I don't consider anyone safe (even Valanciunas). But I don't sense a complete overhaul of the franchise all at once.
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  24. #40
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Bouncepass wrote: View Post
    Okay. I thought that this thread was specifically about the acquisition of Gay, not the advisability of DD's contract.
    I was replying to your comments on flexibility in relation to gay but gay was not the issue with maintaining flexibility, Dd contract was.

    Gay and dd playing together is a different thing all together than the impacts of their respective contract and extension.

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