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Colangelo's Acquisition of Gay..

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  • #16
    I don't even think Demar is overpaid ... or think he isn't effective, and capable ... I just think he and Rudy is duplicity in skillsets, with Rudy's being a bit higher in many levels.

    SG is also a position of need for many franchises, while we would be fine with Fields, TRoss, and an additional bench vet covering the spot. We could get a PF (or PG) for building, and Demar (and Bargs?) is a package that can return real talent.
    The only way to bag a classy lady is to give her two tickets to the gun show... and see if she likes the goods.

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    • #17
      To the point of the thread, did trading for Rudy include considerations that it would lead to trading Demar? Might have been an idea - or maybe BC wanted to see a super athletic wing tandem, give them a chance to play together?

      Rudy would be the one trade that would say "tank", assuming the returns were young players and picks.
      The only way to bag a classy lady is to give her two tickets to the gun show... and see if she likes the goods.

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      • #18
        Colangelo's acquisition of Gay is similar to his chase for Nash the summer before. He wanted a 'name'.

        From a trade perspective, Bryan killed. Davis + 2nd rounder for Gay? When most were going to include one of Amir/DeMar and a future first as well? Gay is vastly overpaid, but he's still very talented. If Ujiri wants to flip him I'm sure he would get a haul that would be better than Davis and a 2nd rounder and from that point of view it was a really good investment.

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        • #19
          I agree with Matt that the trade was a net gain in value, particularly over an expiring Calderon. I also think it's worth having the conversation with Gay and see if he'd be open to a contract extension at a lower amount that makes sense for the Raptors. Ujiri is in a better position to play hardball on contract negotiations than BC was. But they could also pitch Gay that he has the choice between being an overpaid veteran who bounces around and is valued only as an expiring contract, or a leader on a contending team that's built for his style of ball; his contract determines which of these two things he is.

          For all the similarities to the Melo situation, the one big difference is that Melo made it clear that he wanted to be in a big market, and wanted a max contract. Gay's contract is bigger than what he's worth right now and I hate that $19.3m player option, but that doesn't necessarily need to be the case if Gay wants to be a part of this team going forward.

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          • #20
            octothorp wrote: View Post
            I agree with Matt that the trade was a net gain in value, particularly over an expiring Calderon. I also think it's worth having the conversation with Gay and see if he'd be open to a contract extension at a lower amount that makes sense for the Raptors. Ujiri is in a better position to play hardball on contract negotiations than BC was. But they could also pitch Gay that he has the choice between being an overpaid veteran who bounces around and is valued only as an expiring contract, or a leader on a contending team that's built for his style of ball; his contract determines which of these two things he is.

            For all the similarities to the Melo situation, the one big difference is that Melo made it clear that he wanted to be in a big market, and wanted a max contract. Gay's contract is bigger than what he's worth right now and I hate that $19.3m player option, but that doesn't necessarily need to be the case if Gay wants to be a part of this team going forward.
            To me, this is the only way the trade makes sense in terms of long-term building. Maybe Colangelo was pretty confident that despite Gay's ridiculously overprice contract, it'll be the only one he ever gets. Can they keep him at a smaller rate beyond that? He's a solid SF, but certainly not worth the current price. If he wants to stay, and it makes sense from a team-building perspective, hopefully he takes a sensible salary.

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            • #21
              Planetmars and Matt52 hit the nail on the head. This was BC's best trade ever, and was a huge win for the Raptors. With an imminent rebuild looming I see Gay being dealt, but I'm ecstatic we have a player like Gay as an asset to trade. We converted several low value assets into a high value asset. As long as you don't get too attached to players (looking at you BC), then dealing low value for high value is always a good idea, even if it doesn't make a ton of roster sense at the time. The roster can always be adjusted in subsequent moves (one of BC's biggest failures was thinking one move was enough).
              We have people in the forums saying they wouldn't deal Gay for the #1 or #2 pick in this years draft. That's how high his value is perceived. It'd be a cold day in hell before anyone talks about Ed Davis like that.

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              • #22
                I would argue BC probably didn't think as far as using Gay as a trade asset. This is speaking entirely on his past moves.

                We much pretty much got nothing in return for every failed acquisition in the past. I don't need to start with Bosh.

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                • #23
                  Gay dealt to Cleavland for both their #1s would be fair trade. Draft Trey Burke with the #1

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                  • #24
                    Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
                    Gay dealt to Cleavland for both their #1s would be fair trade. Draft Trey Burke with the #1
                    I was all over Trey Burke when he was in the 10-18 range.

                    I am not so sure a top 5 pick is worth him.

                    One thing to keep in mind is the strong PG crop coming out next year. Smart, Harrison, Exum, and Micic are all 6'4"-6'6".

                    Another thing to keep in mind is a lot can change in the next 12 months.

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                    • #25
                      raps could trade Gay and or DeMAr for Clevelands first start the rebuild draft Trey Burke with the #1 and Reggie Bullock with the #19 wing great rebounder a great 3 point shot and plays D.

                      So Either....Gay or DeMar to Cleveland for #1 and #19

                      Raps line up going into 2013-14 season with this one trade...

                      Burke
                      Bullock or Ross (If DeMar is moved)
                      DeMar Or Bullock (If Gay is moved)
                      Amir
                      JV

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                      • #26
                        Matt52 wrote: View Post
                        Another thing to keep in mind is a lot can change in the next 12 months.
                        Absolutely. Look at Kabongo as a great example of a highly touted PG out of high school plummeting down the ranks.

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                        • #27
                          In today's NBA, you gotta have an elite winger that can score if you want to win games.

                          I'm not saying Gay is elite. But he's not bad. Best wing guy we've had since VC by far. If you move him, now what?

                          You only move Gay if you plan on blowing up the team and tanking for Wiggins or Parker. That's it.
                          Mamba Mentality

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                          • #28
                            TRex wrote: View Post
                            In today's NBA, you gotta have an elite winger that can score if you want to win games.

                            I'm not saying Gay is elite. But he's not bad. Best wing guy we've had since VC by far. If you move him, now what?

                            You only move Gay if you plan on blowing up the team and tanking for Wiggins or Parker. That's it.
                            I agree with this ... A move of Demar could still be a building move, but moving Rudy says "we're pushing reset".
                            I actually don't want that. I know Masai is building for a ring, but as a fan - I am ready for some postseason.
                            The only way to bag a classy lady is to give her two tickets to the gun show... and see if she likes the goods.

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                            • #29
                              No doubt a difficult decision however circumstances (offers) may force Ujiri's hand one way or the other including the fundamental "does Gay want to be here long term" question.

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                              • #30
                                Papa Burgundy wrote: View Post
                                I agree with this ... A move of Demar could still be a building move, but moving Rudy says "we're pushing reset".
                                I actually don't want that. I know Masai is building for a ring, but as a fan - I am ready for some postseason.
                                We could also consider Gay being one of those second tier stars that you barely find. He's a talented player, and I feel he is a piece that this team can build WITH in order to contend. Goodness, he is a small forward with a lot intangibles, such as winning games at the end, very good on-ball defender when he puts his mind to it, great size around 6'8, 6'9, and a terrific rebounder for the SF position. Pierce, Durant, LeBron, George, Deng.. Who else?
                                Twitter: @ReubenJRD • NBA, Raptors writer for Daily Hive Vancouver, Toronto.

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