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Thread: Raptors Worst Mistake/s

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Default Raptors Worst Mistake/s

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...yer-comparison

    Ouch. Two Raptors players in the Top Ten.

    What do you think is/are the worst mistake/s the Raptors ever made, from management down to the players?

    My top would be hiring Colangelo.
    Next would probably be drafting Araujo
    and third is not trading Bosh a season earlier.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    1) Not drafting AI over Araujo.

    2) I don't regret hiring Colangelo. I don't regret drafting Bargnani. Colangelo's refusal to trade him when he still had value is the issue.

    3) The Jermaine O'Neal trade which led to Marion trade which led to Turk sign and trade.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    1) Not drafting AI over Araujo.

    2) I don't regret hiring Colangelo. I don't regret drafting Bargnani. Colangelo's refusal to trade him when he still had value is the issue.

    3) The Jermaine O'Neal trade which led to Marion trade which led to Turk sign and trade.
    The reason why i did not include the JO trade was because JO was avg. 13pts, 7 rebs and 2blks per game when they acquired him, obviously for the purpose of protecting the rim and getting rebounds. And it somehow worked when he averaged pretty much the same numbers with the Raptors and with a higher FG% to add. It was the injury that was the deal breaker.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
    The reason why i did not include the JO trade was because JO was avg. 13pts, 7 rebs and 2blks per game when they acquired him, obviously for the purpose of protecting the rim and getting rebounds. And it somehow worked when he averaged pretty much the same numbers with the Raptors and with a higher FG% to add. It was the injury that was the deal breaker.
    I look at it as the snowball that turned in to an avalanche of mistakes. Each one compounded the other.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Araujo is definitely #1. Needs based reach for a bad player instead of taking one of the better options out there.

    Worst thing was, at no point did that pick seem like a good choice.

    The Raptors biggest mistake was the VC trade. Nothing else had the impact to set the franchise back so far as that deal did. Bosh leaving wasn't as painful as giving VC away for nothing.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    1) Not keeping Vince happy (too much front office movement leading to Vince becoming Wince and getting peanuts on the dollar for his inevitable trade)

    2) Keeping Bargnani for too long

    3) Drafting Bosh over Wade.. Looking at this in pure hindsight. Wade won a championship and then lured Lebron to play with him to create a dynasty. Would that happen in Toronto? Unlikely, but I would like to see that played out.

    Hoffa is ranked up there but lots of teams miss out on draft picks.. those other teams seem to rebound pretty quickly though.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    1) Not keeping Vince happy (too much front office movement leading to Vince becoming Wince and getting peanuts on the dollar for his inevitable trade)

    2) Keeping Bargnani for too long

    3) Drafting Bosh over Wade.. Looking at this in pure hindsight. Wade won a championship and then lured Lebron to play with him to create a dynasty. Would that happen in Toronto? Unlikely, but I would like to see that played out.

    Hoffa is ranked up there but lots of teams miss out on draft picks.. those other teams seem to rebound pretty quickly though.
    Yeah, I've often wondered about the bold.

    On Hoffa, I agree, but also think it is just classic bad management regardless of the fact that it was Toronto who committed the error. It showed a total lack of foresight. I'll break it down how I see it.

    Even at that time, the amount of true Cs who can play in the post was diminishing. Howard and Okafor got drafted, and they were both expected to become great big men. But really only Shaq and Yao were significant threats. Then some lesser ones like Ilgauskas, and hybrid guys like Gasol, Duncan, JO, who had good size but didn't really impose themselvs on the game in a physical manner. There are lots of poor picks in that 2004 draft by other teams doing similar things....Just consider that Josh and JR Smith, who were both well known and highly touted HS prospects in that draft, went later than Hoffa, Robert Swift, Kris Humphries, Andris Biedrins, and Al Jefferson. All those guys were drafted in teh 8-15 range. The Smiths went 17 and 18.

    While it was certainly a need for the team, the team had lots of holes. They already had Bosh and Carter was still there too. This was a make or break summer with Carter. Getting back to foresight...You have the most athletic wing in the game, arguably ever, and rivalled only by the greats like MJ and Dr. J. You also have a young PF who is arguably the most athletic young big in the game. Your first move as GM is to draft a slow-footed C who can't get up and down the floor fast, and who was only successful in college because of his size/maturity, which became very ordinary in the NBA. The RIGHT guys to target in that draft should have fit the possible athletic combination of VC and Bosh. Carter wanted the team to pursue Steve Nash as well, to get an established PG and hopefully C as well (like Magloire), to keep making playoff pushes.

    The Raptors draft board should've looked something like this:

    Deng (who went 7 right before them)
    Iggy
    Josh Smith
    JR Smith
    Sebastian Telfair....he was highly touted probably would be as high on 3rd on this list, but I assume they would have still gone after a PG in free agency, since they did end up signing Alston that summer.
    Humphries and Biedrins should've maybe been the only bigs on their board, and probably if they were going to trade down.

    If they had drafted an athletic wing, and then tried to make the changes Vince wanted, that could've become a great team for another 5-6 years, despite the loss of McGrady and the patch job done by Grunwald to make the team competitive for a few years.

    I just always picture a lineup something along the lines of this, going with guys rumored that Vince may have wanted them to go after, and if they managed to keep the pick and draft Iggy.

    PG: Nash
    SG: Carter
    SF: Iguodala
    PF: BOsh
    C: Magloire (who had a couple of solid years left and still would've been good to have for matching up against brutes)

    If they manage to keep Peterson and can fill the bench adequately, that's a very good team in what was a weak East for those years. Even if they only add Nash and the draft pick, and make about any other trade with Davis to get a big back or to fill the bench. Now, this last part is total speculation in hindsight, but I firmly believe it starts and stops with the draft plans. It's all tied together. You draft a guy like Iggy or one of the Smiths, and you have to go after Nash because it just makes too much sense with that athletic lineup.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    1. Letting Vince Go

    2.Hoffa

    3.Holding Bargs for too long....

    *Bonus: Letting Bosh walk for nothing......

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    1) Firing Glen Grunwald

    everything since is just an extension of that one action.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    This is hard. In no particular order:

    - Sam Mitchell getting into fights with Alston and Carter
    - Paying Mourning $9 million to win with another team
    - Vince Carter on stage with Nelly while he was injured and the Raps were getting blown out in Orlando(?)
    - The idiot who fell asleep with ice on his foot, damaged his nerves and had to retire (Taylor? Tyler?)
    - Chris Childs forgetting the score in the playoffs against Detroit
    - Kobe's 81
    - The VC Deal
    - Drafting Araujo
    - Signing Turkoglu
    - Drafting Bargnani
    - The Triano Era

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    Raptors Republic Rookie JStockton's Avatar
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    All moves (aside frm signing Calderon) by Babcock.

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    Quote JStockton wrote: View Post
    All moves (aside frm signing Calderon) by Babcock.
    Speaking of Babcock, I've always felt he wasn't given a fair chance. Yes he'll always be remembered and hated for the TERRIBLE VC trade but in fairness to him, he was fired only a year and a half after being hired.

    BTW the worst mistakes IMO are:

    1) Firing Sam Mitchell: I put this on the top of my list because IMO retaining Sam would have led to at least another play off appearance(possibly 2nd round) which could have led to Bosh re-signing therefore a few more play off appearances.

    2) Failure to trade Bosh: I remember it being the year when Raps. were at 4th place at the all-star break and like many I agreed that not trading him was the best thing to do. However I don't think BC should be able to say the same. It's the reason he's GM and we're fans. He's supposed to think differently. He's supposed to make decisions in the best interest of the team.

    3) The terrible VC trade: Another wasted opportunity. Probably first in the list of 'wasted opportunities'.
    Attitude Is A Choice.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Not finding enough playing time to keep T-Mac happy. If we were able to sign T-Mac to an extension where would this franchise be now? VC would have been happy and stayed and by the time T-Mac blew up we would have had two exceptional wings we could have traded for any number of assets.

    Bargnani over Aldridge and then holding onto AB for as long as we have.

    Not trading Bosh before he walked.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    Not finding enough playing time to keep T-Mac happy. If we were able to sign T-Mac to an extension where would this franchise be now? VC would have been happy and stayed and by the time T-Mac blew up we would have had two exceptional wings we could have traded for any number of assets.

    Bargnani over Aldridge and then holding onto AB for as long as we have.

    Not trading Bosh before he walked.
    This is total BS. The franchise invested TONS of time into T-Mac, a totally raw rookie out of high school who by his 3rd season was playing 30+ mpg, and the consensus second best player on the team only because Vince was older and further ahead in his development.

    McGrady leaving had nothing to do with how the franchise treated him, and everything to do with McGrady's immaturity and ego. They could've, and actually would've, bent over backwards to keep him. HE wanted to leave. For what? To be the man? Well he was joining an Orlando team with Grant Hill, who was an even more established (temporally) star in the league than Carter. He's just a little sissy bitch who was scared of winter and being away from his mommy or something.

    *And I think his career speaks for itself. Low character guy. Only cared about numbers and glory, and didn't know how to play winning basketball.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    This is total BS. The franchise invested TONS of time into T-Mac, a totally raw rookie out of high school who by his 3rd season was playing 30+ mpg, and the consensus second best player on the team only because Vince was older and further ahead in his development.

    McGrady leaving had nothing to do with how the franchise treated him, and everything to do with McGrady's immaturity and ego. They could've, and actually would've, bent over backwards to keep him. HE wanted to leave. For what? To be the man? Well he was joining an Orlando team with Grant Hill, who was an even more established (temporally) star in the league than Carter. He's just a little sissy bitch who was scared of winter and being away from his mommy or something.

    *And I think his career speaks for itself. Low character guy. Only cared about numbers and glory, and didn't know how to play winning basketball.
    Some pent up emotions about T-Mac? I always thought he was a low character guy too, but none the less if we could have done what it took to keep him it could have changed the fortunes of this franchise to this day.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    Some pent up emotions about T-Mac? I always thought he was a low character guy too, but none the less if we could have done what it took to keep him it could have changed the fortunes of this franchise to this day.
    They aren't pent up. I don't repress them. I frequently mock and disrespect him.

    There's nothing they could have done to keep him. He wanted to go play in Florida because he was homesick. Well, if you're not ready to leave home, you're not ready to be a professional. And McGrady never became a good professional. Still seems like an immature guy.

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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    This is total BS. The franchise invested TONS of time into T-Mac, a totally raw rookie out of high school who by his 3rd season was playing 30+ mpg, and the consensus second best player on the team only because Vince was older and further ahead in his development.

    McGrady leaving had nothing to do with how the franchise treated him, and everything to do with McGrady's immaturity and ego. They could've, and actually would've, bent over backwards to keep him. HE wanted to leave. For what? To be the man? Well he was joining an Orlando team with Grant Hill, who was an even more established (temporally) star in the league than Carter. He's just a little sissy bitch who was scared of winter and being away from his mommy or something.

    *And I think his career speaks for itself. Low character guy. Only cared about numbers and glory, and didn't know how to play winning basketball.
    Maybe TMac would have left on his own accord regardless, however I met and had a long conversation with Antonio Davis in Scotia Plaza the year after TMac left and he said that they never offered him the max and his contract was filled with incentives including how many times he was supposed to work out per month, etc. He felt it was disrespectful and even Davis said that Tracy worked out often, it was Vince who needed to be monitored to ensure he was always training his body the right way. He also said that if they had of offered Tmac what they were planning to offfer Vince (max deals) he would have stayed.

    Who knows what would have happened but this was the opinion of one of his teammates. Someone who might have far more insight than you or I.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote sleepz wrote: View Post
    Maybe TMac would have left on his own accord regardless, however I met and had a long conversation with Antonio Davis in Scotia Plaza the year after TMac left and he said that they never offered him the max and his contract was filled with incentives including how many times he was supposed to work out per month, etc. He felt it was disrespectful and even Davis said that Tracy worked out often, it was Vince who needed to be monitored to ensure he was always training his body the right way. He also said that if they had of offered Tmac what they were planning to offfer Vince (max deals) he would have stayed.

    Who knows what would have happened but this was the opinion of one of his teammates. Someone who might have far more insight than you or I.
    Or you could say that he used a "lowball" offer from Toronto as leverage to get offers from other teams, such as, obviously, the Magic. No offense, but I don't really trust some story from a random encounter with Antonio Davis.

    Look, McGrady was a 3rd year player whose scoring average went from single digits to 15ish ppg in his 3rd year before his contract expired. I doubt much haggling went on. Toronto would never have started with a max contract and clearly would be reluctant to offer that since they obviously would have to invest one in Carter. They wanted to work something out and were even willing to give him incentives for working out. I don't think that was meant to be insulting, it was meant to make his contract as valuable as possible without making it a max deal. I mean, it's stuff he should do as a pro anyway, and clearly didn't do enough of given how quickly he fell to pieces.

    But that wasn't what McGrady wanted. He used the "failed" negotiations with Toronto as leverage to get a gigantic offer from Orlando, which is where he wanted to go all along.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mr.Z's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    Or you could say that he used a "lowball" offer from Toronto as leverage to get offers from other teams, such as, obviously, the Magic. No offense, but I don't really trust some story from a random encounter with Antonio Davis.

    Look, McGrady was a 3rd year player whose scoring average went from single digits to 15ish ppg in his 3rd year before his contract expired. I doubt much haggling went on. Toronto would never have started with a max contract and clearly would be reluctant to offer that since they obviously would have to invest one in Carter. They wanted to work something out and were even willing to give him incentives for working out. I don't think that was meant to be insulting, it was meant to make his contract as valuable as possible without making it a max deal. I mean, it's stuff he should do as a pro anyway, and clearly didn't do enough of given how quickly he fell to pieces.

    But that wasn't what McGrady wanted. He used the "failed" negotiations with Toronto as leverage to get a gigantic offer from Orlando, which is where he wanted to go all along.
    But then look what happened, he immediately jumped from 15ppg to 27ppg. He was a better basketball player than Vince when he was in his prime. Orlando put their faith in his potential, something the Raptors probably should have done. And plus it's his home town, why would you bash a guy for wanting to play for his home town? It's not his fault Orlando's management surrounded him with shitty talent. He could have done great things in Houston too had he not had those knee injuries, especially in 2007, the year the Rockets had a 22 game winning streak.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Papa Burgundy's Avatar
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    1.) Trading Vince - the package was a disgrace, and time has told that things could have been fixed ... major setback.

    2.) Signing Turk - the last ditch effort to keep Bosh ... lost CB4, and were left trying to ditch Turk - setback.

    3.) Firing Grunwald - He built a great thing, was let go ... leading to the drafting of Hoffa, and trade of Vince ... setbacks.
    The only way to bag a classy lady is to give her two tickets to the gun show... and see if she likes the goods.

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