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Thread: Fired: Alvin Williams

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    TBH why fire Alvin Williams? it seems like a useless move to me. IT would be like firing Magloire......why? all these guys were doing was stuff within Canada to support the Raptor name and community. Dumb move if you ask me, Raps now look like a team that doesnt take care of their own.
    Why fire him? I have another question: why keep him?

    He went from being an assistant coach, to director of player development and, finally, back to Philly to be a scout. It looks to me as though they were desperately trying to find something for him to do but it isn't the job of any organization to pay people money cause they're nice guys. The Raptors paud this guy millions of dollars. They don't owe him anything.

    Not to be heartless (this obviously sucks for Alvin Williams) but this is not a big deal.

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  3. #22
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    I don't know what Alvin did, or what he didn't do nor do I know how successful he was at what he was supposed to be doing. But I do think "Smith, Wolstat, Koreen, and Lewenberg" are more closely plugged into the Raps and the NBA as a whole than I will ever be.

    Has anyone found any NBA connected sources who think it was a good move? Usually when there is a bunch of people saying "A" there automatically surfaces a bunch saying "B." Where are the "B's"?

  4. #23
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    I am big Alvin Williams fan but people are reacting to this with little information on the firing. Do we know if him and management had discussions to compare philosophies and objectives? No. We don't know anything that was said. It's hard to "take sides" when I don't know anything about what led to the decision.

    This firing was a non-factor. People will have it forgotten by tomorrow. Alvin has made millions from MLSE, he' should land on his feet. I wish him the best of luck.

  5. #24
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    If AW had been doing a good job in any/all of his roles within the organization, he very likely would have been kept. Who knows what players he scouted and what recommendations he made re: potential draft picks and/or signings... maybe they were all horrendous and he was just a bad scout?

    I think the franchise should use well liked/respected ex players the same way the Blue Jays do, which is more on the PR/charity side. Get the beloved ex players to represent that team in fan appreciation events, kid training sessions, charity events and various PR appearances across the country. That avoids this type of AW predicament, when a guy is let go and the response winds up being overly emotional ("boo hoo hoo, he's my favourite ex-player and was Mr. Raptor"), instead of objectively evaluating his on-the-job performance (let alone having any sort of trust/faith in the new management group). Remember, MU is well respected for his scouting background and likely wants to bring in his own guys, so this really shouldn't come as a big surprise. That's the double-edged sword about hiring popular ex-players to front office positions.

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  7. #25
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    I don't know what Alvin did, or what he didn't do nor do I know how successful he was at what he was supposed to be doing. But I do think "Smith, Wolstat, Koreen, and Lewenberg" are more closely plugged into the Raps and the NBA as a whole than I will ever be.

    Has anyone found any NBA connected sources who think it was a good move? Usually when there is a bunch of people saying "A" there automatically surfaces a bunch saying "B." Where are the "B's"?
    Unfortunately the only thing the quartet are offering are vague implications bordering on passive aggressiveness about his intangible value to the organization.

    Despite their 'uproar' I've yet to read anything from the quartet with a real tangible consequence of this decision.

    I am not claiming to be more closely plugged in to the Raptors or the NBA - or even plugged in at all - than these guys.

    What I am saying is any bit of critical thinking shows:
    1) this is a non-issue and Smith decided to make it an issue,
    2) the new regime likely aren't as chummy as the old with local media and it is showing in some "reporter's" writing - which in my opinion screams as 100% total unprofessional #hack hence the "reporter's",
    3) Alvin Williams collecting a pay cheque in Philly appears to have created little to no value for the Raptors organization or its fan base.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
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  8. #26
    Raptors Republic Starter torch19's Avatar
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    Whatever reason they had for letting Alvin go, they're keeping it in the family. I like it that way. It might seem cut throat because of the lack of details, but I'm sure there was a conversation that took place between the two parties.

    It may not be good for media & us fans (who like to speculate about everything related to this organization), but I like that the new management team is keeping their cards close instead of blowing smoke left, right and center.
    ďI donít create controversies. Theyíre there long before I open my mouth. I just bring them to your attention.Ē

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  10. #27
    Raptors Republic All-Star Sig's Avatar
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    Reading that article really pissed me off.

  11. #28
    Raptors Republic All-Star wallz's Avatar
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    Jesus, and I thought hockey analysts were stupid

  12. #29
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote Puffer wrote: View Post
    I don't know what Alvin did, or what he didn't do nor do I know how successful he was at what he was supposed to be doing. But I do think "Smith, Wolstat, Koreen, and Lewenberg" are more closely plugged into the Raps and the NBA as a whole than I will ever be.

    Has anyone found any NBA connected sources who think it was a good move? Usually when there is a bunch of people saying "A" there automatically surfaces a bunch saying "B." Where are the "B's"?
    Media guys will be more 'plugged in' with the on goings of an organization, but that doesn't mean their assessment of decisions is any more right (hello Doug Smith and Stephen Brotherson). It can also mean, as Matt52 referred to, a greater chance for built in biases due to their connection with individuals. Firing Alvin may well be 'bad PR' or unfortunate event to befall a good guy or a 'cold' decision, but that doesn't make it the wrong move.

    As others have pointed out, there is not yet an argument made that showed what he did or did well that helped this organization as a coach/scout etc.

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  14. #30
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Holly McKenzie with her 2 cents:

    Williams spent the past season working as a scout. Based in Philadelphia, he would be in Toronto from time to time whenever there was something he was needed for. While his job title was scout, he served a greater purpose than that. Williams was an ambassador of this franchise, if ever there was one. Reminding fans of the lone postseason series victory the team has had, he is remembered for the type of player he was: tough and unfailingly loyal. The team name splashed across his chest always came before the pains and aches of his failing body. He represented all that you would ever want in a player in a career that was cut short due to the injuries he fought through.

    Change is inevitable in the world of professional sports; especially for a franchise that has floundered as much as the Raptors have. Still, it is unfortunate that in the attempt to take the franchise to a level of success they’ve yet to experience, one of the most revered players of its past winds up a casualty. The ability to make unemotional decisions is extremely important in this industry. Just as important, though, is being able to identify which pieces of the past are worth preserving.

    http://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/n...is-inevitable/
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
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    Basketball has clear winners every night --
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  15. #31
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  16. #32
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    I find it strange that your new boss (Ujiri) calls you on Sunday and you don't speak with him.

    Doesn't that imply you did not call him back?

    If you did try to call him back, wouldn't you say, I tried to get him back (either by phone call, text, or email)?
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  17. #33
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Speculation:




    Lowry contract situation:




    I was not aware of the July 15th date.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  18. #34
    Raptors Republic All-Star Soft Euro's Avatar
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    Half of this 'article' is as much as I've ever read by Doug Smith. Reading what people around here generally say about him that seems one of the perks of not living in Canada and following the local news about the Raptors. (Doesn't quite make up for not being able to go to games and sometimes watching terrible basketball at 5 am on a workday though)

  19. #35
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    I really do feel the backlash from Toronto reporters(s) on Leiweke's and Ujiri's hirings and decisions since have a lot to do with no longer being in the loop for the on record anonymous and, most likely/more importantly, the off record "this is what really is going on" discussions.

    That is speculation on my part but that is what I am left to believe.


    Lets review things:

    New MLSE CEO: built an empire at AEG in Los Angeles that goes far beyond the sports world; was a part of Laker championships however indirectly; and was the driving force behind building 2 winners in professional hockey and soccer. Impressive resume.

    New Raptors GM: Coming off Executive of the Year. Built a 57 win team with no less than .576 winning percentage over the last 3 seasons. Excited and REALLY wants to be in Toronto.

    New Raptors Ast. GM: Well respected around the league and finalist for a couple GM jobs.


    Yes, things are going horrible in Toronto right now. The new Raptors management have done exactly nothing in Toronto thus far (c'mon draft night!) yet receive more scorn than the man and team who missed the playoffs for 5 consecutive seasons. It makes 100% total sense and does not come off as petty in the slightest.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  20. #36
    Raptors Republic Veteran Bendit's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I really do feel the backlash from Toronto reporters(s) on Leiweke's and Ujiri's hirings and decisions since have a lot to do with no longer being in the loop for the on record anonymous and, most likely/more importantly, the off record "this is what really is going on" discussions.
    To my mind it began with the cacophony of angst at Ujiri's news conf. when he did not reveal to all his plans immediate or otherwise re the Raptors.

    At this time it seems Doug Smith is the only reporter to have "broken" this news. Every other report incl Yahoo is reporting his report. This is the nature of news these days. I suspect his source was the subject himself, Alwin W. who well may have been his source on other items. The entire affair is becoming a bit of a soap opera really. It's the team makeup ultimately isnt it?

  21. #37
    Raptors Republic Superstar TRex's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    Why fire him? I have another question: why keep him?

    He went from being an assistant coach, to director of player development and, finally, back to Philly to be a scout. It looks to me as though they were desperately trying to find something for him to do but it isn't the job of any organization to pay people money cause they're nice guys. The Raptors paud this guy millions of dollars. They don't owe him anything.

    Not to be heartless (this obviously sucks for Alvin Williams) but this is not a big deal.
    This.
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  22. #38
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Reading through the comments of Dough Smith's blog post is hilarious.

    You have about a 6:1 ratio of posts in agreement to Doug to those who are not in agreement.

    Furthermore, those not in agreement are scolded and belittled. Some examples:




    @J

    So to you, I say, "You're trying to make it seem like Doug has it out for Leiweke. What gives?"

    What gives is that if you've read the media reports since TL came to town you'll note the harshness and critical tone the local writers are using to describe his moves. In the case of Mr. Smith, he has repeatedly declared over the years that he's not a fan of the team and whether they win or lose has no real impact on his job. The problem now is that he (and the the local media) feel disrespected by this new regime because their sources (guys like Kelly and Alvin, etc.) are no longer around and I think their job has become a little harder now and it's starting to show in how they report.

    Firing a scout is a non-story. It's been sensationalized here in the blog and other local media because the scout was an old player from the 2-3 year period of glory where they won one playoff series.

    Everyone associated with this franchise should be asked how they contributed to winning. A scout who picks up his cheque in Philly and comes to town every now and then when required did little to help the team on the floor. It's time for these old Raptor relics to move along. AW was a great PG and was paid handsomly for it. He's not owed anything else now.

    Blogger's note: You have no clue about my job or how I do it and how I operate; don't even pretend you do, please. But thanks for reading, we love the hits

    Posted by: GK | June 18, 2013 at 08:07 AM

    Doug Seriously.

    These are the sorts of decision that a guy like Tim Leiweke was hired to make. This isn't charity. Alvin Williams was a token hire by this organization. None of you hors d'oeuvre pirates could of pulled this one off. Hence, why Tim Leiweke gets the big bucks and you get to write about his decisions late night.

    We gave Alvin what we owed him, a chance to work after basketball. After that he needs to earn his keep. Sometimes as much as you want it to work out, it just does not, and a good manager must consider if the position could be better filled by another body.

    However, since competence is not an issue at the Star, maybe you can hire him to help you with the Blog. Would be even better if you can match Alvin's salary with the raptors as that may give you a fresh perspective on the situation.

    Blogger's note: You know, all the validity of your point was lost with the totally childish cheap shot. But thanks for reading, glad you're learning stuff, seems you could use it

    Posted by: Alfred Needing | June 18, 2013 at 03:23 AM


    Who's Alvin Williams?

    Blogger's note: Insight like that you can't get everywhere. Yawn. At least try a bit like everyone else so I don't have to waste a second reading. But thanks

    Posted by: kent | June 17, 2013 at 01:46 PM


    I find it hilarious the man telling people they have no idea how to do his job is telling the man running a multi-billion dollar corporation how to do his:

    Fired. Not by the general manager who never spoke to him, but by a CEO who seems hellbent on getting his fingers in every decision at some level.

    It sucks.

    Look, we all know that keeping people around this team forever is hard; there has been too much change, too many people discarded.
    Keep up the hypocrisy, Doug!
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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  24. #39
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    I think it probably comes down to Alvin's relationship with the press, he was always known as a pretty nice dude with the media and sure you could make a case that he was a "reminder of the good times!" but everyone has to stop trying to relive the glory days at some point, it becomes just sad.
    @jerboat

  25. #40
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Holly McKenzie with her 2 cents:
    Unless she's run a team she's well over he head in trying to identify Alvin Williams as a piece worth preserving. Do anyone of us know how good a scout he is? For all we know he could have recommended multiple duds.

    Someone needs to tell Holly that sometimes getting what you wish doesn't equate to things working out how you want. We all crave a team worth supporting and it's weak to then start to criticize when the hard decisions then have to be made.

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