View Poll Results: Do you think theres been too much change/people discarded over the last month?

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  • Yes.

    0 0%
  • No.

    21 48.84%
  • Not enough.

    15 34.88%
  • About right.

    7 16.28%
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Thread: Has there been too much change and too many people discarded?

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I think you are making this more than it was intended to be. The intent was to get people's perceptions on the last month with TL and MU....
    Sorry...just went back and reread the poll. completely blew by the "last month" thing.

    Raptors biggest problem is the level of talent and how that talent fits together, as you have pointed out before I believe Matt. I think I recall you even suggesting that the poor fit is more significant that the actual talent level. Some big weak spots in this roster. And the roster is all on the front office.

    Move them all out, as far as I am concerned. Start rebuilding or retooling this team with a plan in place, because there doesn't seem to have been one for years. I has seemed like BC has just jumped at whatever happened to catch his eye.

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  3. #22
    Raptors Republic Superstar isaacthompson's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    It will be interesting to see fan reactions when and if the people they more closely align to (the players) start to get shuffled.

    I have a feeling when people like Amir Johnson or DeMar DeRozan get moved there will be a lot of emotions vented in much the same manner. Hell even Bargnani still has some fans.
    I agree with this, I'm about the only person in my whole school that doesn't think DeMar's good for this team. And that's just a small-scale example.

    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Hopefully but I doubt it.

    As dickishly as Doug Smith puts it, "Thanks for the hits. Keep reading."

    As long as hits come in, I don't think TheStar cares.
    Sounds like a Skip Bayless comparison. As far as I'm concerned, the only reason he hasn't been kicked off ESPN is because his hilariously outlandish views get ratings for First Take.
    Twitter - @thekid_it

  4. #23
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    Man, if I was in charge the only thing left in the front office would be the chairs, desks, computers and phones.
    even these have the stank of losing all over them. start a new poll to change the chairs, desks, computers and phones into champion office equipment. let's get this done tim.

    i think that when a lot of management change there are some firings and some keepers for the new management. what i like about now is tim and masai have talked about changing the history of the raps and so they are getting rid of history. none of these people being fired represent winning. even alvin only represents a second round loss.

    only guy i don't want to see get fired is embry.
    For The Win

  5. #24
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    They've also let Jim Kelly go and cleaned out most of the scouting department. We've also heard that Gherardini is on his way out. I highly doubt Eversley will be there come the fall.
    Yes I forgot about Jim Kelly and I was not aware of the scouts being fired.
    Attitude Is A Choice.

  6. #25
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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    Are you suggesting the cull should be at a faster pace or that the change in faces are not drastic enough in substance ?
    No I'm simply stating that it doesn't seem like a lot change has taken place. It's only a matter of time though before, if not all, most of BC's staff gets fired. It's simply the nature of the business.
    Attitude Is A Choice.

  7. #26
    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    It will be interesting to see fan reactions when and if the people they more closely align to (the players) start to get shuffled.

    I have a feeling when people like Amir Johnson or DeMar DeRozan get moved there will be a lot of emotions vented in much the same manner. Hell even Bargnani still has some fans.
    Trading Amir makes a ton of sense though. He is one of our better assets right now and might be at peak value. If the team thinks it can turn it around quickly, then perhaps they keep him, but his trade could speed up the process.

  8. #27
    Raptors Republic Starter pesterm1's Avatar
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    I personally think Doug just lost alot of his contact that he has built a relationship with over the last 7 years. He now realizes he is in trouble and will have to work to make new ones. Seems like Doug is worried. I predict Doug wont be covering the raptors as much anymore.

    Based on the pole, the fans want more change and agree with the changes made.... Doug, your wrong again !

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  10. #28
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Wow, talk about cleaning house if it even hits the third party "yes men" reporters.

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  12. #29
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote pesterm1 wrote: View Post
    I personally think Doug just lost alot of his contact that he has built a relationship with over the last 7 years. He now realizes he is in trouble and will have to work to make new ones. Seems like Doug is worried. I predict Doug wont be covering the raptors as much anymore.

    Based on the pole, the fans want more change and agree with the changes made.... Doug, your wrong again !
    I'm sure some of them, like Jim Kelly, have been there much longer.
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  13. #30
    Raptors Republic Starter RapthoseLeafs's Avatar
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    Default Alvin & the Chimpmunks

    .
    I think moving Alvin out was a mistake. The fact that he was marginalized by the previous Admin (or so we're told ... ie. a Scout in Philly land), makes me think a good PR move, would be towards making Williams more of the face of the Raptors. A sort of ... "we actually care about those in the organization (who don't impact the team roster), who have a fondness for the only team not in the USA".

    As for jettisoning Steve Fruitman - who somehow put the amazing trade together for Hedo (as the Cap Specialist) - I have wonder, what was the point to this. Have Timothy & Ujiji been watching too much Last Man Standing. Is Timothy ... aka Tim Allen, and Massai ... aka Nancy Travis.

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1828327/



    Granted, these are small changes - relatively speaking. All the more reason why they could've kept both guys.

    As to Dougie Smith's rant of late, I think he made a valid point. And a number of other Sport Beat guys made similar comments (regarding Alvin). I may disagree with most things DS, but to completely dismiss everything he says, downplays the concept that even idiots sometimes have good ideas.

    Truth be told, I'm a little worried about Tim Leiweke. Intuition is ringing in my ears, worried that Timothy is a micro-managing type of guy. Hopefully our Messiah Massai, has enough control to chart a new course for the Raptors. Hate to see a suit get too involved - remember that pencil pushing Teachers' Union guy. Leiweke strikes me as more a PR guy with great success in that field, and not enough of a Sports type who can dictate a brighter future for the Leafs, Raptors, et al.

    .

  14. #31
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote RapthoseLeafs wrote: View Post
    .
    I think moving Alvin out was a mistake. The fact that he was marginalized by the previous Admin (or so we're told ... ie. a Scout in Philly land), makes me think a good PR move, would be towards making Williams more of the face of the Raptors. A sort of ... "we actually care about those in the organization (who don't impact the team roster), who have a fondness for the only team not in the USA".

    As for jettisoning Steve Fruitman - who somehow put the amazing trade together for Hedo (as the Cap Specialist) - I have wonder, what was the point to this. Have Timothy & Ujiji been watching too much Last Man Standing. Is Timothy ... aka Tim Allen, and Massai ... aka Nancy Travis.

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1828327/



    Granted, these are small changes - relatively speaking. All the more reason why they could've kept both guys.

    As to Dougie Smith's rant of late, I think he made a valid point. And a number of other Sport Beat guys made similar comments (regarding Alvin). I may disagree with most things DS, but to completely dismiss everything he says, downplays the concept that even idiots sometimes have good ideas.

    Truth be told, I'm a little worried about Tim Leiweke. Intuition is ringing in my ears, worried that Timothy is a micro-managing type of guy. Hopefully our Messiah Massai, has enough control to chart a new course for the Raptors. Hate to see a suit get too involved - remember that pencil pushing Teachers' Union guy. Leiweke strikes me as more a PR guy with great success in that field, and not enough of a Sports type who can dictate a brighter future for the Leafs, Raptors, et al.

    .
    Considering he was hired and demoted by previous front office and let go by this front office, that does not sound like a ringing endorsement for his contributions to the franchise.

    And so what if he is a micro-manager? (BTW I don't think he is unless you call a guy who is in touch daily with the people running operations below him a bad thing - which I don't - MLSE needs accountability as evidence of the last 5 years with Colangelo). Results are what matters and Leiweke's resume is loaded with results.

    If that is how Leiweke strikes you, you really should do more reading on him.
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  15. #32
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Doug's panties still in a twist:



    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  16. #33
    Raptors Republic Starter RapthoseLeafs's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Considering he was hired and demoted by previous front office and let go by this front office, that does not sound like a ringing endorsement for his contributions to the franchise.

    And so what if he is a micro-manager? (BTW I don't think he is unless you call a guy who is in touch daily with the people running operations below him a bad thing - which I don't - MLSE needs accountability as evidence of the last 5 years with Colangelo). Results are what matters and Leiweke's resume is loaded with results.

    If that is how Leiweke strikes you, you really should do more reading on him.
    You may be right Matt.

    I did use the term intuition to qualify my comment. Simply put, it's a gut feeling I have.
    And I have read up on Tim, and I did check out some of his interviews (and read the transcripts). I think part of me wondered why he kept BC, then proceeded to belittle him (in a round-about way). Personally, if I felt that way about someone who reported to me, I would've fired such an individual.

    Then there is the matter of Alvin. Was it Tim who fired him? Or was it Tim (via Massai)? I understand the concept of clearing the ship after it runs aground, however that doesn't mean all the ship mates "are not worthy" of migrating to a new ship.

    For me, I have this hope that Massai will call ALL the shots, now and in the future (when it comes to basketball roster & coaches).


    One other point about Tim that I forgot to mention. His previous job stint, saw him bring great success to the operational end of things (ie. TV contracts, attendance etc.). But when one thinks about MLSE, are they not already such a successful operation. Their value sure demonstrates this.

    .

  17. #34
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    Quote RapthoseLeafs wrote: View Post
    You may be right Matt.

    I did use the term intuition to qualify my comment. Simply put, it's a gut feeling I have.
    And I have read up on Tim, and I did check out some of his interviews (and read the transcripts). I think part of me wondered why he kept BC, then proceeded to belittle him (in a round-about way). Personally, if I felt that way about someone who reported to me, I would've fired such an individual.

    Then there is the matter of Alvin. Was it Tim who fired him? Or was it Tim (via Massai)? I understand the concept of clearing the ship after it runs aground, however that doesn't mean all the ship mates "are not worthy" of migrating to a new ship.

    For me, I have this hope that Massai will call ALL the shots, now and in the future (when it comes to basketball roster & coaches).


    One other point about Tim that I forgot to mention. His previous job stint, saw him bring great success to the operational end of things (ie. TV contracts, attendance etc.). But when one thinks about MLSE, are they not already such a successful operation. Their value sure demonstrates this.

    .
    If you've read all the stories, you should realize that the decision to let Alvin go was MU's, not TL's. TL just happened to get in touch with AW first, after MU & AW played phone-tag for a couple days. I think MU did a pretty good job explaining the rationale behind the firing. It sounds to me like AW was a regional scout who was only interested in being a regional scout, didn't really have any significant record of success in any of his front office jobs with the Raptors, and simply didn't fit with the new structure/strategy. So what if he was a well liked ex-player? So what if he really loved the Raptors? That doesn't make him a good fit for an NBA front office.

  18. #35
    Raptors Republic All-Star JimiCliff's Avatar
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    Quote RapthoseLeafs wrote: View Post
    .
    I think moving Alvin out was a mistake. The fact that he was marginalized by the previous Admin (or so we're told ... ie. a Scout in Philly land), makes me think a good PR move, would be towards making Williams more of the face of the Raptors. A sort of ... "we actually care about those in the organization (who don't impact the team roster), who have a fondness for the only team not in the USA".

    As for jettisoning Steve Fruitman - who somehow put the amazing trade together for Hedo (as the Cap Specialist) - I have wonder, what was the point to this. Have Timothy & Ujiji been watching too much Last Man Standing. Is Timothy ... aka Tim Allen, and Massai ... aka Nancy Travis.

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1828327/



    Granted, these are small changes - relatively speaking. All the more reason why they could've kept both guys.

    As to Dougie Smith's rant of late, I think he made a valid point. And a number of other Sport Beat guys made similar comments (regarding Alvin). I may disagree with most things DS, but to completely dismiss everything he says, downplays the concept that even idiots sometimes have good ideas.

    Truth be told, I'm a little worried about Tim Leiweke. Intuition is ringing in my ears, worried that Timothy is a micro-managing type of guy. Hopefully our Messiah Massai, has enough control to chart a new course for the Raptors. Hate to see a suit get too involved - remember that pencil pushing Teachers' Union guy. Leiweke strikes me as more a PR guy with great success in that field, and not enough of a Sports type who can dictate a brighter future for the Leafs, Raptors, et al.

    .
    Could be that he was the guy who suggested the Landry Fields deal. That alone's reason enough to get rid of him.

  19. #36
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote RapthoseLeafs wrote: View Post
    You may be right Matt.

    I did use the term intuition to qualify my comment. Simply put, it's a gut feeling I have.
    And I have read up on Tim, and I did check out some of his interviews (and read the transcripts). I think part of me wondered why he kept BC, then proceeded to belittle him (in a round-about way). Personally, if I felt that way about someone who reported to me, I would've fired such an individual.

    Then there is the matter of Alvin. Was it Tim who fired him? Or was it Tim (via Massai)? I understand the concept of clearing the ship after it runs aground, however that doesn't mean all the ship mates "are not worthy" of migrating to a new ship.

    For me, I have this hope that Massai will call ALL the shots, now and in the future (when it comes to basketball roster & coaches).


    One other point about Tim that I forgot to mention. His previous job stint, saw him bring great success to the operational end of things (ie. TV contracts, attendance etc.). But when one thinks about MLSE, are they not already such a successful operation. Their value sure demonstrates this.

    .
    Good point on intuition. I should have shown more respect to an opinion rather than a statement of fact. Apologies.


    I get the feeling an arrangement with Colangelo might have already been made before Tim took over - just my feeling. I think it is clear that Tim does not want him around.


    Personally, I think they knew the fallout of not renewing the contract of a guy like AW. Tim probably took that one on the chin. I find it interesting how Alvin says Ujiri had called him but they never actually spoke.


    I wouldn't minimize what Leiweke did at AEG. It was not a stint at AEG. The man basically built it in to an empire. Also, Leiweke got his start in professional sports with the Denver Nuggets.

    Timothy Leiweke is the outgoing President and CEO of Anschutz Entertainment Group (AEG), which owns the Los Angeles Kings, the Los Angeles Galaxy, part of the Los Angeles Lakers, the L.A. Live entertainment complex, as well as multiple sporting and entertainment venues around the world, such as the Home Depot Center and the O2 Arena in London, which it manages
    AEG is the world's largest owner of sports teams and sports events, the owner of the world’s most profitable sports and entertainment venues, and under AEG Live, the world's second largest presenter of live music and entertainment events.

    Tim Leiweke, who helped improve Los Angeles' sporting fortunes and revive the city's once-woebegone downtown during his 17-year leadership of sports and entertainment giant AEG, on Friday was named president and chief executive of Toronto-based Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment.

    http://articles.latimes.com/2013/apr...iweke-20130427


    The longtime CEO of AEG led just about every part of the live entertainment business. He took a hands-on approach with the Los Angeles Kings hockey franchise and guided Major League Soccer through a decade of expansion, with his own Los Angeles Galaxy winning back to back championships this year and last. He built a real estate empire around the world with iconic arenas in London, Shanghai, and Sydney and pioneered the transformation of downtown Los Angeles with the formation of the country’s most dynamic mixed-use development, L.A. Live. He helped building the thriving touring division AEG Live, launched a massive ticketing company and dipped his hand in the television business with Mark Cuban and Ryan Seacrest to create AXS TV.

    Sports. Mega-real estate. Music. Television. Technology. The list of industries Tim Leiweke brought into the AEG fold as part of his synergistic vision for live entertainment goes well beyond the periphery of most firms. On top of it all, he led a process to bring the National Football League to Los Angeles, and while the vision for Farmers Field has yet to be realized, Leiweke achieved a historical accomplishment when the Los Angeles City Council approved the project in September 2012.

    http://www.venuestoday.com/news/deta...im-leiweke0320

    LOS ANGELES (January 25, 2013) – Championships in the National Hockey League and in Major League Soccer made for a pretty good year for AEG President and CEO Tim Leiweke, as the AEG-owned Los Angeles Kings and LA Galaxy won the Stanley Cup and MLS Cup in 2012.

    In recognition for an exceptional year, which also includes operating such facilities as STAPLES Center and The Home Depot Center and for guiding the development of Farmers Field, Leiweke will be honored as the 2012 Sports Executive of the Year during the 8th Annual LA Sports Awards, to be held on Sunday, March 3 at The Beverly Hilton.

    The LA Sports Awards are presented annually by the L.A. Sports Council to celebrate the greatest moments of the year in sports in the Los Angeles/Orange County area.

    Leiweke also received the Sports Executive award in 2010.

    http://www.lagalaxy.com/news/2013/01...executive-year
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
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  20. #37
    Raptors Republic Starter Dino4life's Avatar
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    Hope this makes sense to Doug Smith as to why the scout who lives and works out of Philly was let go.

    JS: You’ve also made sweeping changes to your scouting staff. Coming from a scouting background yourself, what needs to change in terms of how this franchise evaluates and scouts at the professional, collegiate and international levels?

    MU: One of the things I do is that I don’t restrict people to regional scouting and so it cuts my staff down. Some teams do it where they’d hire regional guys and guys in different areas and I’m a little bit different. I want whoever I have seeing everything. So when we go into a room and we have a discussion, everyone is very honest and has a strong opinion because you’ve seen the player or seen the prospect.

    So the staff is going to shrink a little bit in those situations… It’s unfortunate that there has to be changes and fewer opportunities in terms of scouting positions, but a smaller staff is how I want to go.
    Now can he shut the hell up with his condecending tweets....BUHUUHUHUHUH i'm losing my contacts, i'll have to go out and work like everyone else instead of picking up the phone.

  21. #38
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    Interesting:

    "...The longtime CEO of AEG led just about every part of the live entertainment business. He took a hands-on approach with the Los Angeles Kings hockey franchise and guided Major League Soccer through a decade of expansion..."

  22. #39
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    I think he let's his management do their job. He simply makes sure they're right on track.

    Empower management but establish accountability ... Is the motto

  23. #40
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Good point on intuition. I should have shown more respect to an opinion rather than a statement of fact. Apologies.


    I get the feeling an arrangement with Colangelo might have already been made before Tim took over - just my feeling. I think it is clear that Tim does not want him around.


    Personally, I think they knew the fallout of not renewing the contract of a guy like AW. Tim probably took that one on the chin. I find it interesting how Alvin says Ujiri had called him but they never actually spoke.


    I wouldn't minimize what Leiweke did at AEG. It was not a stint at AEG. The man basically built it in to an empire. Also, Leiweke got his start in professional sports with the Denver Nuggets.

    I think Tanenbaum had something to do with BC hanging around, prior to Tim jumping on board. And I'd agree Lieweke doesn't really care to have Brian on board.

    What bothered me, is how Tim handled things. To me, any new Chief should recognize that when given that position, he's in charge. And as such, have no need to demonstrate or prove the existence of that power. The ultimate decision is his, and that's all that really matters.

    If in the future, Massai is given a equal level of power, I would imagine he'd handle a similar awkwardness in a more professional manner.

    .

    From a marketing perspective, past reality doesn't help the cause. The Raptor team of 2012-13 did not make the play-offs. They had a fan base that was toxic to a mishandled, overly amplified draft pick. They had a fan base that had lost faith in the overall operation. Last thing they need, is a f*@ked up management dynamic, that is front and centre in the news. If anything, Tim's reputation and yes, "long" stint (17 years), suggest he'd be more likely to avoid "piling on" more negativity to the Toronto Raptor situation. Any lack of bad news, is really good news when it comes to this basketball team.

    Was it simply to show fans who was in charge?
    Wasn't that evident?
    If it was to show fans, does that mean he's susceptible to partial fan influence. When Lieweke achieved all that he did at AEG, I have to believe it was his pure Management sales skills that made things happen.

    With that in mind, initiating a p!ssing match really serves no purpose.

    .

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