View Poll Results: Do you think theres been too much change/people discarded over the last month?

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  • Yes.

    0 0%
  • No.

    21 48.84%
  • Not enough.

    15 34.88%
  • About right.

    7 16.28%
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Thread: Has there been too much change and too many people discarded?

  1. #41
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote RapthoseLeafs wrote: View Post
    I think Tanenbaum had something to do with BC hanging around, prior to Tim jumping on board. And I'd agree Lieweke doesn't really care to have Brian on board.

    What bothered me, is how Tim handled things. To me, any new Chief should recognize that when given that position, he's in charge. And as such, have no need to demonstrate or prove the existence of that power. The ultimate decision is his, and that's all that really matters.

    If in the future, Massai is given a equal level of power, I would imagine he'd handle a similar awkwardness in a more professional manner.
    I would think if Tannenbaum influenced the Colangelo decision, then Lewieke is not the cheif nor does he have the ultimate decision. Which also explains why Leiweke was so public and forward about explaining what Colangelo's position entailed (as you call it 'a round about belittling' - although to be blunt that seems like a huge stretch) because he knew the the management dynamic was "f@cked up" and a "toxic fan" base would have a hard time understanding it.



    Was it simply to show fans who was in charge?
    Wasn't that evident?
    If it was to show fans, does that mean he's susceptible to partial fan influence. When Lieweke achieved all that he did at AEG, I have to believe it was his pure Management sales skills that made things happen.
    It could have been that, or it could have been the more simple explanation, and how Masai explained it, of Alvin being an inefficiency on the payroll that was unnecessary going forward. A straightforward business/sports decision made by Masai rather than a PR decision made by Leiweke.

    I find it strange that you are concerned over Tim L being a 'PR Guy' and not a 'sports guy', but then seem solely concerned about how the Alvin Williams decision looks.

  2. #42
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote RapthoseLeafs wrote: View Post
    I think Tanenbaum had something to do with BC hanging around, prior to Tim jumping on board. And I'd agree Lieweke doesn't really care to have Brian on board.

    What bothered me, is how Tim handled things. To me, any new Chief should recognize that when given that position, he's in charge. And as such, have no need to demonstrate or prove the existence of that power. The ultimate decision is his, and that's all that really matters.

    If in the future, Massai is given a equal level of power, I would imagine he'd handle a similar awkwardness in a more professional manner.

    .

    From a marketing perspective, past reality doesn't help the cause. The Raptor team of 2012-13 did not make the play-offs. They had a fan base that was toxic to a mishandled, overly amplified draft pick. They had a fan base that had lost faith in the overall operation. Last thing they need, is a f*@ked up management dynamic, that is front and centre in the news. If anything, Tim's reputation and yes, "long" stint (17 years), suggest he'd be more likely to avoid "piling on" more negativity to the Toronto Raptor situation. Any lack of bad news, is really good news when it comes to this basketball team.

    Was it simply to show fans who was in charge?
    Wasn't that evident?

    If it was to show fans, does that mean he's susceptible to partial fan influence. When Lieweke achieved all that he did at AEG, I have to believe it was his pure Management sales skills that made things happen.

    With that in mind, initiating a p!ssing match really serves no purpose.

    .
    The 2 bold nailed it.

    The fan base lost faith in the basketball decision makers due to the 5 years of losing. I think the majority of the fan base turned on Colangelo and have become bitter/cynical/disillusioned... take your pick or add another. I think because Colangelo was staying in the front office, no, it was not evident. TL went to great lengths to convey to the fan base that while Colangelo has strengths on the business side of the franchise, his days of influencing the basketball side are over.

    I'm not seeing the pissing match you speak of. TL made it clear how things were going to be moving forward and, considering the front office has been cleaned out and replaced over the last 2 days, it appears mission accomplished.

    Does it matter how things happened at AEG? Results are what matter - or at least what should matter. To do what TL did wtih AEG takes a lot more than management sales skills. You need a vision and the competency to see it through.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  3. #43
    Raptors Republic All-Star
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    BC w/ Tanenbaum made plenty of money for the organization. Money in his pocket? Of course he's happy. Has NOTHING to do w/ sports though.

  4. #44
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Good ol' Dougie was right, more changes coming:

    “We will be a defence-first team but what we have offensively has to fit what we have,” Casey said. “We’re going to bring such coaches in to fit that need.

    http://blog.raptors.com/casey-eyes-b...etter-defence/
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  5. #45
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    Default Off with their heads: Round 2 - Davis, Roth, Sterner edition

    Sounds like more heads are ready to roll...

    Not that Dwane or Masai would ever confirm this at the moment, on or off the record, the word around the Finals has been that Johnny Davis, Scott Roth and Tom Sterner will not be back next fall. Toronto Star

  6. #46
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    sweet. i HATE johnny davis, was genuinely bothered when he was hired since it seemed like a "hey bud wanna come coach with me " hire and not a "lemme hire some coaches who can help with my weaknesses" one.
    @jerboat

  7. #47
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    How come Micah Nori keeps making the cut? For me he falls into the "what does he do?" bucket.

  8. #48
    Raptors Republic Starter Quirk's Avatar
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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    How come Micah Nori keeps making the cut? For me he falls into the "what does he do?" bucket.

    He makes sure Tannenbaum's henchmen never get hold of those negatives.

  9. #49
    Raptors Republic All-Star Employee's Avatar
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    So apparently they're bringing in Popeye Jones and Nick Nurse. I had to look up Nick, he's the head coach of the Rio Grande Valley Vipers. Sounds like a decent dude:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Nurse
    Eh follow my TWITTER!

  10. #50
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    Weellll, NN does have a ring...albeit from the NBDL, but a ring nonetheless.

  11. #51
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Hmm I wonder if Glen Rice Jr is a option then.
    @jerboat

  12. #52
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Apparently he's very well versed with Patrick Beverly as well hmmmmmm
    @jerboat

  13. #53
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    I thought of this thread/article from Doug Smith when reading below. I think it is fair to say reporters do get personally involved with a team and the players when they follow each and every game around the US/Toronto for 8 months of year - more like 10 with pre season and free agency. I think it is obvious that Smith had a personal agenda when all the changes were going on this summer.

    Anyways, a really interesting piece by BlazersEdge.com on Jason Quick no longer covering the Blazers for the Oregonian newspaper:

    Blazersedge: What were the factors that led you to ask off of the Blazers beat over the years?

    Jason Quick: "I think it had become stale to me a little bit in a way. I think I just lost faith in a lot of the NBA. I've seen a lot of bull----. From putting your heart and soul into a player and believing him when he talks about kissing his kids at night and all that, then you write that, and the next road trip you see him with somebody that's not his wife, basically getting it on. That's disheartening to me. There's a lot of times where you hear a bunch of bull---- from these guys, it's hard to believe anything.

    "There was a time when I really, really enjoyed this beat. 2008-2009, around the time they had the 13-game winning streak [in 2007] and the year after that, that was by far the most fun I ever had at my job. There was a closeness with the team, a drive I had, a vision. But I think what made that special was a bunch of guys on their rookie contracts. I've seen how money changes players, changes their attitudes, so I think over time it eroded the goodwill that I had, pursuing stories because you want to believe what you're writing, you know? There's just too many instances where I would buy into it and down the road realize it was all bull---."
    Blazersedge: What's your favorite piece that you wrote? I think people will assume it was something to do with Brandon Roy.

    Jason Quick: "Yeah, maybe the one when they amnestied him. That was an emotional one. I think I got choked up, I was pretty tight with him through his tenure here. I remember getting a little choked up. [What] I was most proud about that -- that happened at 5 o'clock at night, I think it was an hour and two minute interview and I turned around and wrote that on deadline. I was pretty pleased with that piece.

    Blazersedge: Any other reflections on why now is the time to move on?

    Jason Quick: "One thing that really hurt was last summer. As far as, 'Why am I doing this? Why am I spending so much time...?'

    "Nicolas Batum was probably one of my favorite players on this current team. I felt like we had a really good relationship. When he was going through all that crap, the Minnesota stuff. I ran into him downtown, right there at Director's Square, by the waterfalls and stuff.

    "During the interview, his agent Bouna [Ndiaye] calls, what a piece of work he is. Bouna asks him what he's doing and he says, 'I'm talking to Quick.' Bouna tells him, 'Don't, stop talking to him, don't run anything.' Nic gets off the phone, he says, 'My agent doesn't want to run what I just told you.' It was basically the same thing that he told David Aldridge about a month or so later.

    "He said, 'But when it comes time, you'll be the first person I'll call.' We shook hands, he put his other hand on our two embraced hands, and he said, 'Trust me. Trust me. Have I ever done wrong by you?' I was like, "Nic, I don't know about this. You said this was on the record and you're asking me not to do it.' He's like, 'Quick, trust me. Have I ever done wrong by you?' His hands are over our hands shaking.

    "For the rest of the summer it was nothing. I had his number, texting, calling, all that. The next training camp, he gets back, I don't talk to him. I didn't talk to him until the second game of the year, all through training camp, media day, I didn't say a word to him. He was asking Joe, 'What's wrong with Quick? Is he mad at me? What's going on?'

    "Finally we talk in Oklahoma City. He had a s---- game. You can go back and look at what I wrote. He said, 'Are you mad at me?' I said, 'Yeah, you know exactly why.' He said, 'I know, even my girlfriend said it's not right. I'd never been through something like this. My agent was telling me this.' At the end, I got over it.

    "It was just like, 'Why trust these guys? Why have faith in these guys?' If there was a guy I trusted and had faith in being a good person it was Nic. That was like, 'What am I investing so much time into this for?' I've given a lot of time to this beat, that was a real... that was when things really started shifting for me.

    "The fans too. They piss me off. I feel like I get so much unwarranted ----. A lot of this stuff, I can't say where I'm getting it from. Just trust me. I don't want to get into it. I feel like people don't understand this profession. A lot of times when you're writing stuff, you know it, you just can't reveal who it's coming from."

    http://www.blazersedge.com/2013/8/20...g-blazers-beat
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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  15. #54
    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Without knowing about Jason Quick, I have to say that I find it hard to picture Doug Smith hanging with the Raps. Just doesn't seem to fit right. A younger writer with more in common (music, video games, etc) may get a real relationship, but with Smith I wonder if it is even as "real" as from this article.

  16. #55
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    yeah good article, i think its pretty common for some of these guys to have relationships with members of the team, especially the suits. honestly, i don't see anything wrong with it, but you have to be neutral about it all. can't be throwing a tantrum when someone you like gets fired or someone gets moved on from. that's dougie's problem. what a wanker.

    i don't really get the bit about Batum though.
    @jerboat

  17. #56
    Raptors Republic All-Star Letter N's Avatar
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    i don't really get the bit about Batum though.
    If I had to guess, especially because of the part about Batum discussing it with his girlfriend, I bet it went down like this. Batum tells his agent he promised to let Quick know first, his agent slapped him on his hands and said if we're revealing info it'll be to ESPN, not some dinky beat reporter no one outside of Oregon has ever heard of. Batum obviously did what his agent recommended, as he should, and Quick took it personally.

    I guess everyone takes it hard the first time they really see that's it's all just a business.

  18. #57
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    right but what was the news? that she was pregnant or something?
    @jerboat

  19. #58
    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    right but what was the news? that she was pregnant or something?
    I think it had to do with the offer sheet he signed a couple years back.

  20. #59
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Ah
    @jerboat

  21. #60
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Instead of a Jason Quick interview, this time it is an article by him. It is another good read.

    A snip:

    But somewhere in this bizarre transition when everyone has a blog, and people who can write 140 characters are considered journalists, the job lost its allure. Often times it's not about being right, it's about being the loudest. It's not about being good, it's about being first. And it's not about telling the real story, it's about being friends with the players.
    http://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/in...l#incart_river
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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