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Thread: Spoelstra out-coached Popovich....and my response to that

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Veteran rocwell's Avatar
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    Quote Soft Euro wrote: View Post
    Het gets heaps and heaps of credit. For one, I always hear Jeff van Gundy saying he'll end up in the hall of fame; he says that every Heat game he commentates on.
    Well, Jeff van Gundy says a lot. So..

  2. #22
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote isaacthompson wrote: View Post
    Any coach in the league could lead them, yeah. But I meant undervalued as in he gets ZERO credit for his job. Sure he has LeBron and Wade and Bosh, but at the end of the day he still has to make the playbooks.
    Did he do anything revolutionary? If so I didn't see it.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TRex's Avatar
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    Quote thead wrote: View Post




    Spoelstra did NOT "out coach Popovich." When you have the greatest living basketball player (in his prime) on your team, that plays and guards 5 positions it tends to make things easier for you. When you have two All stars in the starting lineup it doesn't hurt as well. When Ray Allen...aka Jesus himself is your 6th man it starts to get a little ridiculous. When Mike Miller, Shane Battier and Chris Anderson are your 7th 8th and 9th man you begin to get an idea that a monkey in a bow tie could coach that team to a championship. Now factor in that they were taken to a game 7 in the finals by a team with three stars entering or already in the twilight of their career, a 2nd round - D-Leaguer they coverted into a 3 point specialist, a fat frenchman, a Brazillian center that can't hit free throws, a sophmore with good potential as a defensive stopper and the series was STILL only decided in the waning moments of game 7. Out coached my ass!
    Agreed.

    I love Popovich. But he choke in Game 6.
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  4. #24
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Did he choke or did he he show that he's not a robot? One implies that a mistake was made due to pressure, one implies that a mistake was made for no other reason than people sometimes tend to make mistakes because we're not machines.

    For a coach who has coached so many big games and has so many great accomplishments I would lean on the side that he didn't choke, but he did make a few decisions which could have been handled better. People neglect to consider that the Spurs wouldn't have been in game six of the finals had he not made hundreds of correct decisions; trading blows with a more powerful adversary.

    Let me ask you guys something. When you leave the toilet seat up and somebody falls in, did you choke or did you make a mistake? I think for Pop, playoff games are like trips to the men room: it's so routine that it's just another task on your daily process.

  5. #25
    Raptors Republic Superstar isaacthompson's Avatar
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    What exactly defines the "choking" of a coach?

    As far as I see it, any substitution made that turns out bad is deemed as a mistake. I would think the only example of a coach "choking" would be freezing up and not making a decision. He clearly made one, it just turned out to be bad one.
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  6. #26
    Raptors Republic All-Star ezz_bee's Avatar
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    Zach Lowe breaks it done something along the lines of "Pop is smart, smarter than us, he makes his call based on what is probably the most reliable statistical evidence". Hindsight is 20-20.

    On the initial play I was like WHY THE F**K wasn't Duncan out there? But the reality is that the heat didn't have a big on the floor for Lebron's 3 pointer and the Spurs were switching on everything, which means that even IF Duncan is on the floor, who knows where he is at the point the shot is missed, or if they can exploit his match up to get an uncontested three. Leonard is an excellent rebounder and almost came away with the board. If he does the Spurs are up 5 with the ball and less then 20 seconds left, and it's pretty much game over. I just don't see how you can say Pop choked when he did SO MANY smart things in that series that other coaches wouldn't have done. Sometimes you can make the right decision and still come away with the wrong result. And sometimes there is no right decision and you just have to pick your poison.

    What are you going to do if Lebron makes 5 3pters? Close out on him hard to force him to drive? You have to pick your poison. It sucks that the Spurs lost, and you can put the blame on Pop for that (although I'd disagree) or Duncan (Timmy missed the Gimmy that would have tied it with less than a minute to go) or Green (Ice Cold for the last 2 games) or Ginobli (I'm going to do 2 stupid things, then 1 good things, then 2 more stupid things) or Leonard (Make your foul shots!) or Parker, or anyone.

    But anyone who claims that Spo out-coached Pop, better provide some evidence, because the Heat who were the outright favourites going into this series looked downright VULNERABLE.
    "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

  7. #27
    Raptors Republic All-Star wallz's Avatar
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    Pop even defended his reasoning after game 6, saying Duncan wouldn't have been able to cover the 3 ball, and a missed rotation caused the offensive board, that it had nothing to do with Duncan not being on the floor

  8. #28
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Spurs don't get out of the first round without Pop and TD.

  9. #29
    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Quote Soft Euro wrote: View Post
    People always want a narrative. If that ball of the rebound on the LeBron 3pt shot miss would not somehow have gotten in Ray Allen's hands he would have said something completely different and people would have talked completely different about LeBron (because he missed that shot). People are very simple animals.
    I would only add that I thought Spoelstra did out-coach Popovich in Games 6 and 7 in two key stretches. Start of the 4th Q in Game 6, Miami was teetering, ready to collapse. They had one run left. Popovich sat Duncan and Parker. Spoelstra immediately went to his most effective lineup of the series. Spurs lead? Gone in the blink of an eye. Game 7, start of the 4th Q. Pop sits Duncan and Parker. Spoelstra turns to his most effective 5-man unit against SA's weakest lineup. Miami gets a lead they won't relinquish.

    Not sure what has been said (I've been evacuated from my house for days) but if Popovich isn't receiving criticism for his Game 6 and 7 decision-making, people aren't paying attention.

  10. #30
    Raptors Republic All-Star Soft Euro's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    I would only add that I thought Spoelstra did out-coach Popovich in Games 6 and 7 in two key stretches. Start of the 4th Q in Game 6, Miami was teetering, ready to collapse. They had one run left. Popovich sat Duncan and Parker. Spoelstra immediately went to his most effective lineup of the series. Spurs lead? Gone in the blink of an eye. Game 7, start of the 4th Q. Pop sits Duncan and Parker. Spoelstra turns to his most effective 5-man unit against SA's weakest lineup. Miami gets a lead they won't relinquish.

    Not sure what has been said (I've been evacuated from my house for days) but if Popovich isn't receiving criticism for his Game 6 and 7 decision-making, people aren't paying attention.
    Game 7, start of th 4th quarter, Duncan sat for a total of 35 seconds; that's all he sat in the second half. Parker went out with 3.19 left in the 3th quarter, with Miami leading by 3 points. He came back in with 10.28 left in the 4th with (after the subsequent made freethrow) Miami still up by 3. So ...

  11. #31
    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
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    Nobody expected the spurs to make it to the NBA finals. Not even The Spurs themselves. It's a shame they didn't win. But, clearly Popovich knows how to catch.
    If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

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  12. #32
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    People don't give enough credit to Spoelstra, he has the talent, but regardless of who you are and your basketball IQ, a coach is needed to see, handle, address the issues on the court, plain and simple. The players are in the moment, you don't see the full game in action, all 10 players, you just can't see EVERYTHING.

    A big reason why Miami was able to win a championship in 2012, was the new defensive philosophy Spoelstra wanted to bring in. Quick rotations, force baseline, force turnovers. They did that, mainly because Miami obviously had the talent to do so. Pretty sure you put Casey on the Heat, the defense would stay the same assuming he brings the same mentality, but offense would stay shitty, especially because of the many isos that would be ran.

    He did a better coaching job down the stretch of the series. He created different lineups that would be able to contradict what the Spurs wanted to do - make them shoot jumpers. Thus, the lineup of Chalmers/Allen/LeBron/Miller-Battier/Birdman was extremely effective all series. They exploited these things, and looking at game 1 to game 2 in the series, Spoelstra didn't even make any adjustments, they stayed with the same game-plan, and instead, they were making shots, resulting in that unstoppable 33-5 run, also a good coaching decision to stick with their identity.

    The team made adjustments, and was better prepared after every single game they lost in the entire playoffs. I do not think he out-coached Popovich, that's an absolutely retarded thing to say (the series went seven games, and up until game 6, I thought the Spurs had full control of the series), but the last two games of the series, and in their wins against the Spurs in the Finals, Spoelstra just had better adjustments going into the games.. Losses for the Heat were mostly because lack of execution, and of course, most of that was because Pop and the Spurs did a great job of exploiting their defense, and having a well run offense.

  13. #33
    Raptors Republic Superstar heinz57's Avatar
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    Quote LBF wrote: View Post
    Nobody expected the spurs to make it to the NBA finals. Not even The Spurs themselves. It's a shame they didn't win. But, clearly Popovich knows how to catch.
    i did. they were my pick from the start.

  14. #34
    Raptors Republic Superstar heinz57's Avatar
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    Quote ReubenJRD wrote: View Post
    I do not think he out-coached Popovich, that's an absolutely retarded thing to say (the series went seven games, and up until game 6, I thought the Spurs had full control of the series), but the last two games of the series, and in their wins against the Spurs in the Finals, Spoelstra just had better adjustments going into the games.. Losses for the Heat were mostly because lack of execution, and of course, most of that was because Pop and the Spurs did a great job of exploiting their defense, and having a well run offense.
    i agree with this.

    i don't really think either out coached the other at all.. they both did outstanding jobs, and they both fucked up some that led to losses.

    The only knock i really have against Spo's coaching was he waited until game SIX to adjust for the danny green factor..

    it was one of the most enjoyable finals series in a long time... gotta tip the hat to both teams.. even if my pony didn't win the race

  15. #35
    Raptors Republic All-Star ezz_bee's Avatar
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    Quote heinz57 wrote: View Post
    it was one of the most enjoyable finals series in a long time... gotta tip the hat to both teams.. even if my pony didn't win the race
    Does this mean that you are finally willing to change your avatar?
    "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

  16. #36
    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
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    Quote ezz_bee wrote: View Post
    Does this mean that you are finally willing to change your avatar?
    He needs to change it back to "neeerds!"
    If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

    Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

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