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  1. #1
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Dredging through the basement of my hard drive I found a link to this: A very optimistic piece I did in Bargs first year when (this may have been his first time) it looked like he had turned a corner and was going to become something special. From February 2007.

    http://puffers-posts.blogspot.ca/

    Needless to say the blog went nowhere as other things intervened, but it continues to exit in cyberspace. All of our internet sins will be there to be tallied up on judgement day. Careful what you post people.

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    Wow, if only it turned out that way. And you arr right about being careful with what is pot up online. lol

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    Without running another poll, I would wager to guess that most of the members of this forum had high expectations at some point for Bargnani. AB is a superior underachiever, that's what has lead to all this negativity towards him.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote stretch wrote: View Post
    ...AB is a superior underachiever, that's what has lead to all this negativity towards him.
    Pretty much nailed it right there.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote stretch wrote: View Post
    Without running another poll, I would wager to guess that most of the members of this forum had high expectations at some point for Bargnani. AB is a superior underachiever, that's what has lead to all this negativity towards him.
    I think there is a level of truth that applies to some with this. There have been plenty of fans who were very high on what Bargnani could be, his potential, talent etc and its reasonable to think many became disillusioned or frustrated with his inconsistency or lack of reliability.

    But I don't think the negativity towards him is exclusive to his underachieving. He has always been a terrible defender and rebounder. From the day he first stepped on the court to the last game he played this last season, you could rely on him to consistently not help on D and not get a rebound that didn't fall in his lap. Sure there were isolated possessions or periods of time where he would do things right, but they were never season long, month long or week long sessions. Finding entire games where he was helping on D or rebounding with abandon are hard to isolate and seemingly random.

    Even his memorable 13 game performance was a marginal improvement on D and on the boards, most of his "allstar calibre period" was offense related, and to his credit he was very efficient offensively over that stretch, but he still only averaged slightly over 6 rebounds during that stretch (hit double digits twice, but had 5 or less 5 times), 0.4 stls, and well under a block, while being a negative defensively on/off. We could look at his offense, and make fair comparisons vs other good offensive players, but defensively and on the boards the improvement could really only be made against himself. Against even an 'average' defender or rebounder he was still bad.

    I can't speak for everyone, although I imagine there will be more than a few that feel or felt the same as this, but my 'negativity' towards him stemmed from him being a player with enourmous holes in his game that would be nearly impossible (or at the very least incredibly difficult) to compensate for. A player whose strengths did not compensate for his weaknesses, because he wasn't that strong at what he was best at, and was incredibly weak in his areas he was bad at.

    Before he stepped on the court in the NBA I had high expectations, but I also knew little other than what I read on him, a handful of clips, and a lot of talk from the media. While some pre and post draft write ups were not particularily positive towards him, almost everything that came from the Raptors related media was glowing. But it didn't take long to ask the question - how talented is he really? The story of his potential had been lost on me many years ago, and it became evident his uniqueness existed in his areas of liability (one of the worst rebounding and help defending bigs in history), more so than his areas of strength (a tough to cover stretch 4).

    But more than anything, I can say my strongest negativity came towards how Colangelo used him and specifically his role on the team. I really think that if Colangelo had either accepted Bargnani was not 'that good' when he should have, and didn't keep forcing him down this team's throat as the teams franchise player, but rather a role player or rotation player, the negativity would have been much different. Sure he'd never live down the 'draft bust' title, and people would always chuckle about how he was at one point compared to Dirk. But there may have been alot more discussion as to "why didn't coach Casey/Triano/Mitchell bring Bargnani out to open up the floor for so and so" or "leave him out there longer because he was hot" rather than the, "why the hell is Bargnani starting, let alone on the floor for so long?" it became.
    Last edited by Craiger; Sun Jun 23rd, 2013 at 11:18 AM.

  7. #6
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    ...He has always been a terrible defender and rebounder. From the day he first stepped on the court to the last game he played this last season, you could rely on him to consistently not help on D and not get a rebound that didn't fall in his lap.....
    Well, that was the point of my old blog post...he wasn't always terrible. In his rookie year, "...on February 21st, against the Cavaliers, Bargnani had 7 rebounds. That was more than he totalled in his previous four games. In the two games since then the pace hasn't let up, with 6 rebounds in 25 minutes against the Pacers and 11 in 32 minutes in the Raps most recent outing against Charlotte."

    If Only indeed. If only he made the slightest effort. All water under the bridge. He is what he is. Bye Bye Bargs...as soon as possible.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star ezz_bee's Avatar
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    The article, and Bargnani's career in 4 quotes.

    Suddenly the rookie has discovered there are more interesting things to do with a basketball coming off a backboard then watch it.
    by not being so quick with the help defense, he doesn't give his man a chance to pickup a rebound by sneaking inside while he concentrrates on the other player.
    Maybe Bargnani has turned a corner. Maybe it's a statistical fluke
    We Raptor fans can only hope.
    Followed by denial, then all the other stages of grieving.

    What's amazing is that ALL of the s*%t we've been debating, his inability to rebound, his poor help defense, his inability to do those things consistantly, it's all there.

    I also love the back-handed compliment about his lack of playing help defense is increasing his rebound numbers. I mean as a theory it makes sense, but as all thing Barg's just didn't turn out that way.

    @Puffer, even though your analysis was ultimately proved groundless (and is there anyone, ever, in the history of people who make predictions about sports who hasn't been consistently, and completely wrong?) I'm glad you posted it. So thanks!
    Last edited by ezz_bee; Mon Jun 24th, 2013 at 07:39 AM.
    "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

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    Raptors Republic All-Star ezz_bee's Avatar
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    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    But more than anything, I can say my strongest negativity came towards how Colangelo used him and specifically his role on the team. I really think that if Colangelo had either accepted Bargnani was not 'that good' when he should have, and didn't keep forcing him down this team's throat as the teams franchise player, but rather a role player or rotation player, the negativity would have been much different. Sure he'd never live down the 'draft bust' title, and people would always chuckle about how he was at one point compared to Dirk. But there may have been alot more discussion as to "why didn't coach Casey/Triano/Mitchell bring Bargnani out to open up the floor for so and so" or "leave him out there longer because he was hot" rather than the, "why the hell is Bargnani starting, let alone on the floor for so long?" it became.
    +1

    What you said, plus it seemed like he just didn't give a shit.

    All that aside, I'm thinking of starting a keep bargnani thread... I mean, if no one wants him at his current price, it's never to late to do the right thing. AKA Bring him in as your first big off the bench (or second or third), at least for the first half of the season to see if it works or if he can increase his value.

    Now that coangelo is gone there's no reason to assume that just because he's on the roster that he should start. Wouldn't it be great to see him actually have to earn his minutes? Maybe he could be useful in that role as a scorer off the bench. Amir is a solid defender, and Jonas' help defense will be improved. Barg's is capable of guarding big guys in one on one situations decently/moderately/passibly?

    Maybe it's just me by a depth chart of

    JV/Bargs/Gray
    Amir/Bargs/Acy

    is interesting.

    CAVEAT! This is only considerable BECAUSE Coangelo is gone. And is working under the assumption that barg's has to earn his minutes in the rotation. IF Acy/Gray/New player is out playing him, or his is playing like balls then he should and will lose his minutes to those players.

    Ultimately, I still think Bargs deserves to be in the NBA, in the right role (aka off the bench!) and if we can't get rid of him for decent returns, it's not to late to use him effectively/efficiently.

    Anyway, looks like I don't need to start that post anyway, since I pretty much laid out my thoughts here. Besides, Bargnani already has too many threads.
    "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

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  11. #9
    Raptors Republic Superstar Puffer's Avatar
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    Bargs was terrible coming off the bench last year...but maybe he will adjust to that role (here I go again...you would think a person would learn from past experience).

    But some stuff has to change. The booing needs to stop. Casey and Ujiri need to have a heart to heart with AB to see what he wants to do and to tell him what they want him to do. If he accepts his role as one with no pressure, and performs exactly as Casey instructs him to, and makes some effort to do so while caring a little bit about outcomes, it might work. It can only increase his trade value if the league see's and way in which he could help a team. He might then become a tradeable asset in his last year, when some team only needs to eat half a season's worth of his salary.

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