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Thread: Why aren't we going hard in the paint for Eric Bledsoe?

  1. #221
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    I think Terry got sent to the Nets in the big deal.
    Yep, you're right.

    Then it's a bit fuzzier. Don't know if they're as desperate to unload Bass or Lee. Wallace is a real possibility when he becomes eligible to be included in multiplayer deals again.

  2. #222
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote iblastoff wrote: View Post
    Boston has no interest in moving rondo so no.
    I think they'll have to listen to offers. They're going to suck hard next year. Rondo is not going to be a happy camper.

    I doubt they move him in the summer, but I'd be far from surprised if he's traded mid-season.

  3. #223
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote iblastoff wrote: View Post
    Boston has no interest in moving rondo so no.
    You never know. Rondo was part of the championship Boston team and he can't be happy that they've blown that team up to start all over. If he demands a trade, Ainge will have be listen to offers. There is also the Gay/Rondo connection which might make the Raptors a favourable destination for Rondo, and we have picks which might be an asset a rebuilding team like Boston is looking for.

  4. #224
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    I dont believe Rondo is the right fit here especially if this is a rebuild. He is also a volatile personality who couldn't get along with his Rivers and many team mates. Of course he now has bad knees and an acl tear repair and a lot of mileage. Too risky for my tastes. Wonderful player and leader personality but I think he wants to run the team...literally.
    A player of Rondo's skill set is the right fit anywhere. His attitude is another thing all together, and I agree it's not the greatest, but he is one of the best competitors in the league and hates to lose. Frankly, the Raptors could use players that bring a bit more attitude on the floor and there is no denying that the addition of Rondo would make us a much better team.

  5. #225
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Default As a PG Bledsoe < Lowry

    Scouting report
    + Quick, athletic guard with good size and tremendous defensive potential.
    + Nominally a point guard, but no idea how to play offense. Turnover machine.
    + Poor outside shooter and lacks feel, but has great burst and draws fouls.

    Analysis
    Bledsoe was injured for a big chunk of 2011-12 and on the fringes of the rotation for much of the rest, but he was a revelation in the postseason with his dogged defense and ball pressure.

    He played only 436 minutes and his regular-season numbers were pretty ugly. He can't shoot and has an insanely high turnover ratio, which it makes it awfully tough for him to be an effective offensive player. Last season his 45.4 true shooting percentage was about as bad as it gets for a guard, and his turnover ratio would have been the worst at his position with enough minutes. He had a negative pure point rating for a second straight season, which is bad, bad news if you're an aspiring point guard. Basically, you'd be hard-pressed to find a more inefficient offensive player.

    Nonetheless, his suffocating defense gives him some value. He's an active, athletic defender with high rates of steals and rebounds, and despite standing 6-foot-1 he can guard many 2s effectively. There's a cost in fouls -- he had one every 7.5 minutes, which is extremely high for a point guard -- but the Clippers gave up 8.5 fewer points per 100 possessions with him on the court.

    All of which sets up an important third season for Bledsoe. He'll likely be handed the backup point guard gig and will certainly terrorize opposing backups with his ball pressure. But he needs to show some degree of competence on offense to stay in the rotation.

  6. #226
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    Scouting report
    + Quick, athletic guard with good size and tremendous defensive potential.
    + Nominally a point guard, but no idea how to play offense. Turnover machine.
    + Poor outside shooter and lacks feel, but has great burst and draws fouls.

    Analysis
    Bledsoe was injured for a big chunk of 2011-12 and on the fringes of the rotation for much of the rest, but he was a revelation in the postseason with his dogged defense and ball pressure.

    He played only 436 minutes and his regular-season numbers were pretty ugly. He can't shoot and has an insanely high turnover ratio, which it makes it awfully tough for him to be an effective offensive player. Last season his 45.4 true shooting percentage was about as bad as it gets for a guard, and his turnover ratio would have been the worst at his position with enough minutes. He had a negative pure point rating for a second straight season, which is bad, bad news if you're an aspiring point guard. Basically, you'd be hard-pressed to find a more inefficient offensive player.

    Nonetheless, his suffocating defense gives him some value. He's an active, athletic defender with high rates of steals and rebounds, and despite standing 6-foot-1 he can guard many 2s effectively. There's a cost in fouls -- he had one every 7.5 minutes, which is extremely high for a point guard -- but the Clippers gave up 8.5 fewer points per 100 possessions with him on the court.

    All of which sets up an important third season for Bledsoe. He'll likely be handed the backup point guard gig and will certainly terrorize opposing backups with his ball pressure. But he needs to show some degree of competence on offense to stay in the rotation.
    What was said about DeRozan in 2011-12?

    And what was said about Bledsoe this seaon

    I find it ironic that people talking about how DD still has so much room to improve do not extend the same courtesy to a player who is 4 months younger, who has played about 5700 less NBA minutes, and yet still managed to nearly triple DD's WP48 last season. He has been stuck behind arguably the best PG in the league the last 2 seasons whereas DD has been given every opportunity imaginable.
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  8. #227
    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    I like Bledsoe, I would prefer him as a backup to Lowry though. If he is good enough this season, we dont have to extend Lowry, if he maintains his offensive woes, we may have a long extended duo of Lowry + Bledsoe, which in my mind locks up that position as gold!
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  9. #228
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    Scouting report
    + Quick, athletic guard with good size and tremendous defensive potential.
    + Nominally a point guard, but no idea how to play offense. Turnover machine.
    + Poor outside shooter and lacks feel, but has great burst and draws fouls.

    Analysis
    Bledsoe was injured for a big chunk of 2011-12 and on the fringes of the rotation for much of the rest, but he was a revelation in the postseason with his dogged defense and ball pressure.

    He played only 436 minutes and his regular-season numbers were pretty ugly. He can't shoot and has an insanely high turnover ratio, which it makes it awfully tough for him to be an effective offensive player. Last season his 45.4 true shooting percentage was about as bad as it gets for a guard, and his turnover ratio would have been the worst at his position with enough minutes. He had a negative pure point rating for a second straight season, which is bad, bad news if you're an aspiring point guard. Basically, you'd be hard-pressed to find a more inefficient offensive player.

    Nonetheless, his suffocating defense gives him some value. He's an active, athletic defender with high rates of steals and rebounds, and despite standing 6-foot-1 he can guard many 2s effectively. There's a cost in fouls -- he had one every 7.5 minutes, which is extremely high for a point guard -- but the Clippers gave up 8.5 fewer points per 100 possessions with him on the court.

    All of which sets up an important third season for Bledsoe. He'll likely be handed the backup point guard gig and will certainly terrorize opposing backups with his ball pressure. But he needs to show some degree of competence on offense to stay in the rotation.
    All true, and all things that come with being inexperienced. However Bledsoe has a huge upside which is what anyone signing him is banking on. The "James Harden effect" is the term I would use.

  10. #229
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    What was said about DeRozan in 2011-12?

    And what was said about Bledsoe this seaon

    I find it ironic that people talking about how DD still has so much room to improve do not extend the same courtesy to a player who is 4 months younger, who has played about 5700 less NBA minutes, and yet still managed to nearly triple DD's WP48 last season. He has been stuck behind arguably the best PG in the league the last 2 seasons whereas DD has been given every opportunity imaginable.
    I wasn't trying to compare the two but, stating that I'm not a fan of him a starting PG right now.

    DeMar DeRozan

    Scouting report
    + One-dimensional scorer who can get to the rim and draw fouls. Midrange shooter.
    + Great leaper, finisher. Ball hog with iffy handle, passes only as last resort.
    + Decent defensive tools but focus an issue. Struggles to guard big 3s.

    Analysis
    DeRozan averaged nearly a point every two minutes last season, ranking in the top third of shooting guards in that metric. And that about does it for the good news.

    Few players score an emptier 20 than this guy. Offensively, DeRozan drew fouls at a high rate (eighth among shooting guards) and made his freebies (81 percent). But his secondary percentage was still less than the norm for the position because he made only 24 3-pointers all season, and his midrange stroke had some snags, too. DeRozan had made a strong 41.5 percent of his long 2s in 2010-11, but that might have been an outlier; he converted only 35.7 percent last season. Given that he mostly shot long 2s, that was a problem.

    His other problem is that he doesn't notice the other four guys on the court. It's one thing for DeRozan to be a mildly inefficient, high-volume shooter, but he also created only for himself. He ranked just 56th out of 61 shooting guards in pure point rating.

    Defensively, DeRozan improved but still has a long way to go to become decent. Some of that can be attributed to playing more at the 3, where he struggled with size mismatches. However, his effort and technique also could use a significant upgrade. DeRozan ranked near the bottom of Synergy's rankings, while the Raptors gave up 3.5 points per 100 possessions more with him on the court.

  11. #230
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    All true, and all things that come with being inexperienced. However Bledsoe has a huge upside which is what anyone signing him is banking on. The "James Harden effect" is the term I would use.
    James Harden was six man of the year. He was extremely efficient.

  12. #231
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote enlightenment wrote: View Post
    I like Bledsoe, I would prefer him as a backup to Lowry though. If he is good enough this season, we dont have to extend Lowry, if he maintains his offensive woes, we may have a long extended duo of Lowry + Bledsoe, which in my mind locks up that position as gold!
    Would you trade DD just so you can get a backup PG? I think that's too high of a price for one, IMO.

  13. #232
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    Would you trade DD just so you can get a backup PG? I think that's too high of a price for one, IMO.
    Who is to say Bledsoe is not more than a backup?

    One thing we do know is he is very high in demand.

    I wouldn't look at it strictly as trading DD for a backup PG. I'd look at it as trading for a backup PG and much more flexibility moving forward.
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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  14. #233
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    I think everyone would do well to remember that flexibility IS an ASSET in and of itself

  15. #234
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    Would you trade DD just so you can get a backup PG? I think that's too high of a price for one, IMO.
    On the surface I agree with you, but it could be part of multiple moves done in parallel. For example:

    Trade #1 - DeRozan for Bledsoe & Butler

    Trade #2 - Lowry (and possibly Butler being flipped) for Millsap (S&T)


    My point is that I can't see MU keeping both Bledsoe and Lowry, if Bledsoe is acquired. While I like the idea of letting two good, young players battle it out to earn the starting job going forward, I'd worry that forcing them into that sort of competition might leave a bad taste in the 'winner's' mouth.

  16. #235
    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    I simply wouldnt trade a proven asset for a non proven asset. Demar > Bledsoe any day
    The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

  17. #236
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    Quote enlightenment wrote: View Post
    I simply wouldnt trade a proven asset for a non proven asset. Demar > Bledsoe any day
    Aside from his work ethic (which I admire), what has be proven?

    If we aren't a championship caliber team what is benefit of holding the course?

  18. #237
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    On the surface I agree with you, but it could be part of multiple moves done in parallel. For example:

    Trade #1 - DeRozan for Bledsoe & Butler

    Trade #2 - Lowry (and possibly Butler being flipped) for Millsap (S&T)


    My point is that I can't see MU keeping both Bledsoe and Lowry, if Bledsoe is acquired. While I like the idea of letting two good, young players battle it out to earn the starting job going forward, I'd worry that forcing them into that sort of competition might leave a bad taste in the 'winner's' mouth.
    I would definitely be on board for a transaction like that.. ie) I would not want Bledsoe and Lowry 'competing' for the primary PG spot. I like that positions are earned not given, but PG is a little different. You need to know who your QB is going to be when the season starts and you stick with them even if they get injured and come back. The Raptors have had way too many PG controversies for my liking.

    The question then becomes, how much is Bledsoe going to cost? If he's this in demand now (Orlando, Dallas, Toronto, Milwaukee all interested), then how much is he going to be in demand in 2014 when he's an RFA? Is he worth 4 years / $44M when he hasn't proven much (that seems to be what most PG's are going for)? And is his stock higher than Lowry's?

    I personally would rather Keep Lowry, and trade DD for Millsap. Then have Lowry prove his worth and then look at our options in 2014. Lowry is probably going to have a fantastic season due to not having Jose on his back, being injury free (hopefully) and being in a contract year. And with Ujiri at the helm, it's possible that he could give Lowry a better than market value and signs him back to a 2/3 year contract. Lowry may appreciate the chance he was given with Toronto, and takes that offer.

    In this particular case, I would prefer the gamble of trying Lowry for one season and hope he comes back at a reasonable salary, over trying Bledsoe for a year and overpaying to keep him because some stupid small market team asks for too much.

  19. #238
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Lowry isnt going to get Urah Milsap when they just got Trey Burke.

  20. #239
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    I would definitely be on board for a transaction like that.. ie) I would not want Bledsoe and Lowry 'competing' for the primary PG spot. I like that positions are earned not given, but PG is a little different. You need to know who your QB is going to be when the season starts and you stick with them even if they get injured and come back. The Raptors have had way too many PG controversies for my liking.

    The question then becomes, how much is Bledsoe going to cost? If he's this in demand now (Orlando, Dallas, Toronto, Milwaukee all interested), then how much is he going to be in demand in 2014 when he's an RFA? Is he worth 4 years / $44M when he hasn't proven much (that seems to be what most PG's are going for)? And is his stock higher than Lowry's?

    I personally would rather Keep Lowry, and trade DD for Millsap. Then have Lowry prove his worth and then look at our options in 2014. Lowry is probably going to have a fantastic season due to not having Jose on his back, being injury free (hopefully) and being in a contract year. And with Ujiri at the helm, it's possible that he could give Lowry a better than market value and signs him back to a 2/3 year contract. Lowry may appreciate the chance he was given with Toronto, and takes that offer.

    In this particular case, I would prefer the gamble of trying Lowry for one season and hope he comes back at a reasonable salary, over trying Bledsoe for a year and overpaying to keep him because some stupid small market team asks for too much.
    I'm not sure where I stand, because I could see either of those two options paying off in the long-term.

    Part of me wonders if MU was actually behind the leaking of Toronto's interest in Bledsoe, for a variety of reasons:
    1. Drive up price for Bargnani - check
    2. Make teams aware that DeRozan is/could be on the trade block, for a Bledsoe-caliber player at least - check
    3. Drive up price for DeRozan - TBD...

  21. #240
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    James Harden was six man of the year. He was extremely efficient.
    I wasn't comparing the two players, and I highly doubt anyone is going to sign Bledsoe to a max contract a la James Harden. However I think Bledsoe's potential is outstanding and that he can have the same sort of improvement going from back up to starting role which Harden had (similar, not the same).

    Just to put it in perpective though, James Terry, Jamal Crawford and J.R. Smith were also 6th man of the year winners. If scoring is the only criteria for being a good player then you are right, Bledsoe isn't any good, and all the teams throwing trade offers the way of the Clippers are wrong.

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