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Thread: Derozan Article

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    Yes i know. But Raps4life is like 17 and so am i lol
    Quote isaacthompson wrote: View Post
    I'm 16. I beat all of you.
    Well don't I just feel old now....

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  3. #22
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    Well don't I just feel old now....
    hehehe


  4. #23
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Brandon wrote: View Post
    Here we go with more of this nonsense about Derozan being a potential all-star. He is what he will always be. If he was going to be anything more, he would have shown it long before now. He's a back-end rotation player on a successful team.
    A bit harsh.

    Average starter.... Even on a good team

    Dude is just average getting paid anything but next year.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  5. #24
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mr.Z's Avatar
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    Quote Brandon wrote: View Post
    Here we go with more of this nonsense about Derozan being a potential all-star. He is what he will always be. If he was going to be anything more, he would have shown it long before now. He's a back-end rotation player on a successful team.
    I and a lot of others would completely disagree with you.

  6. #25
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Mr.Z wrote: View Post
    I and a lot of others would completely disagree with you.
    There are a lot of others who would agree and even more who agree on some level (like myself).

  7. #26
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mr.Z's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    There are a lot of others who would agree and even more who agree on some level (like myself).
    "On some level" maybe but Brandon was basically saying DD is garbage. Which isn't true.

  8. #27
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Mr.Z wrote: View Post
    "On some level" maybe but Brandon was basically saying DD is garbage. Which isn't true.
    Quote Brandon wrote: View Post
    He's fungible, which means one is as good as another. Nothing special. He doesn't enhance their chances of winning a lot of games, he occupies space.
    I don't think Brandon has said anything insulting. Based on his career thus far, I think he is likely spot on. Lets see what he does next season before anointing him anything more than he has shown.

    He is an average starter at best and an above average player when looking at the entire league.

    That is not an insult, in my opinion. In my opinion, it is the truth.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  9. #28
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mr.Z's Avatar
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    Brandon said "He's a back end rotation player on a successful team" meaning he's less than average and not a stater. To me that's an insult. Matt, you're saying he's an average starter which Brandon says he is not.

  10. #29
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mr.Z's Avatar
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    I agree more with you Matt but what Brandon said is not the same thing as what you said.

  11. #30
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Mr.Z wrote: View Post
    Brandon said "He's a back end rotation player on a successful team" meaning he's less than average and not a stater. To me that's an insult. Matt, you're saying he's an average starter which Brandon says he is not.
    400+ players in the league.

    150 start.

    Good teams tend to have depth.

    Most rotations 8-9 deep = 240-270.

    OK. You are right. Brandon is a little harsh here.

    But this is spot on unless DD becomes a dramatic exception:
    ...nonsense about Derozan being a potential all-star. He is what he will always be. If he was going to be anything more, he would have shown it long before now....
    Many guys have become great after 23 years of age and 4 years in the league. But how many have averaged 35-37mpg for 3 years missing only 3 games in that span?


    And despite his not so flattering view on DeRozan, in my opinion he is not
    ...basically saying DD is garbage.
    I do respect your opinion though.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  12. #31
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Brandon wrote: View Post
    Alright, let's look at the numbers.

    In 4 complete seasons, Derozan has done this:

    Average Hollinger numbers: 13.8 career PER. Hollinger measures production. As a shooting guard, you've got to produce. Shooting guards should have a high PER.

    Bad Dean Oliver numbers: In 9700 minutes, Derozan has 12.7 win shares. By comparison, Michael Jeffrey Jordan had 14.0 win shares in 3100 minutes as a rook. OK, not fair to compare the potential all-star Derozan to the GOAT Jordan, right? Orlando Woolridge had 9.0 win shares in 2800 minutes on that same Bulls team in MJ's rookie season.

    Space-time continuum-shatteringly bad Dave Berri numbers: Average shooting guard has a WP48 of .099. Derozan's career WP48: .027. Two seasons ago, Derozan had a negative WP48: -.030 -- in other words, Derozan not only failed to contribute any victories, but actually contributed losses instead. He might as well have been playing for the other team. His reward for this disastrous season was...a 4 year contract extension in which his salary was also increased 287% of his final rookie contract year -- and the headlining act at the Wishful Thinking Festival.

    Beyond that, Derozan's playing time has contributed to a joke of a team that loses about two games for every one it wins.

    He's failed to improve. In fact, he seems to be getting worse with more playing time and increased responsibility. That's a sure sign that too much is being asked of a guy. That's why I say he's a back-end player. With fewer minutes, the speed of the game would be less confusing for him. He could direct the action more and play less on the margins.

    References:
    http://www.thenbageek.com/players/318-demar-derozan
    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...woolror01.html
    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...jordami01.html
    http://www.basketball-reference.com/...derozde01.html




    Who, for instance? You almost always see what the guy can do after only two seasons regardless of age. Athleticism matters a lot in the NBA, and that begins to wane by age 27. It's at a peak long before that, even as a teenager, which is why teens do so well in basketball and tennis, for example.
    Beats the hell out of me.

    I'm too indifferent on the matter now. No one can offer anything other than "hope" and "potential" in these never ending DeRozan debates.... and most of them never even rely on his biggest weakness: defense.

    For the record, I am in full agreement with your comments.... except I wouldn't put DD as a back end rotational player on a successful team. That is a touch too harsh for me.... but maybe I'm just a DeRozan homer at heart. lol Although maybe relative to his contract next based on his prior 3 seasons, you are right and maybe not harsh enough.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  13. #32
    Raptors Republic All-Star ezz_bee's Avatar
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    I'm not where Brandon is yet. I still think Derozan's got this year to show us what he's made of. However, I do think odds are he shows us pretty much the same thing he did last year. I'm sure there will be a few games that people will be able to point to say he's improved in some area or another.

    I gave Bargs five years before I started playing the "he is what he is card" and based on his work ethic Derozan deserves the same treatment from me. All that said, I'm happy to see him moved for value contracts/picks.
    "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

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