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Thread: Zach lowe did a full on raptors column today- how do they get from "good" to "great"

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    Raptors Republic Veteran KeonClark's Avatar
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    Default Zach lowe did a full on raptors column today- how do they get from "good" to "great"

    http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14550490/toronto-spent-money-drafted-young-talent-next

    Some of the ideas put forth my zach and unnamed league executives:

    -toronto is a perfect fit for Al Horford although the sense is hawks will keep him
    -multiple execs mentioned valanciunas and "goodies" for Marc gasol, but we probably can't compete asset wise with Phoenix Boston or Philly, so look one tier down
    -zach likes gambling on markief Morris if we can get him for less than a first
    -lots of talk around derozan. Should resign, but also could look at making JV our number 2 option (says he's likely ready) and fill that derozan salary with say blazemore and Terrence jones or
    -keep derozan, upgrade pf in the offseason with Terrence ross and other assets

    All in all a great read. Here's how it ends:

    "Ujiri also has to decide if Casey is the coach he wants, though both Lowry and DeRozan endorsed Casey's return in separate interviews with ESPN.com. "The grass ain't always greener," Lowry says. "I want him back, but it's not my decision." Another first-round loss would decide that question for him, but things become more complicated in a happy way if the Raptors advance. The Raptors almost went from mediocre to awful when they dealt Gay and flirted with trading Lowry to New York two seasons ago. They want to be great -- the kind of team that lands star free agents, plays on Christmas (the organization is pushing hard for that) and competes for the championship.

    The road there is uncertain, and by default, it may depend on the team's current players. If they don't prove good enough by the time Lowry can hit free agency again after next season, they'll have to search for ways to pivot. "We've made good progress, but in the end it's about winning -- and winning big," Ujiri said. "That's the hard part.""

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    The grass isn't always greener quote by Lowry reflects how I feel sometimes about the discourse on the Raptors.

    I agree with Zach that it isn't clear how the Raptors can get better and letting DeMar go is a huge risk especially if we fill that cap space with inferior talent.

    I think a JV trade for a big time center is worth looking at.

    As is an idea of holding on to DeMars cap hold (which is about 15 million), pitching free agents, clearing cap space if we nail someone like a Batum or a Horford and then trading one of our larger contracts to fit that player in.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Scraptor's Avatar
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    It's a great read but it also hammers home how close we are to being stuck.

    Would LOVE to see us play on Christmas.

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    we would be a better team with Bazemore and Jones and minus demar...imo

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Really like the idea of JV/Marc Gasol trade. Raps are going all in on the backcourt. I don't think Raps have time to wait on JV's potential. Gasol would automatically make raps legit contenders in the east.
    @Chr1st1anL

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Barolt's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    Really like the idea of JV/Marc Gasol trade. Raps are going all in on the backcourt. I don't think Raps have time to wait on JV's potential. Gasol would automatically make raps legit contenders in the east.
    Why? I don't want Marc Gasol if we aren't going to pass him the ball. If we're suddenly going to start passing the ball to a center, we should find out how good JV is before we trade him.

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    Yeah, what marc going to do with 9 shots a game that JV cant? And JV is much younger.

    If you are going to go all in on Demar and Lowry(which Im not even going to go into how fucking stupid that would be) then we should be dumping everything for High energy defense first Center who can pass the ball if needed and a PF who can shoot over 40% from three.

    Think Anderson and Jordan for example.

    then let demar have his 35% usage and have your center play all the defense and have Lowry, Carroll and Anderson spreading the floor in their shooting stance waiting for if the ball gets passed.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote Barolt wrote: View Post
    Why? I don't want Marc Gasol if we aren't going to pass him the ball. If we're suddenly going to start passing the ball to a center, we should find out how good JV is before we trade him.
    The guy was on the All-NBA 1st team last year and All-NBA 2nd team in 2013. They'll pass him the ball.
    @Chr1st1anL

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Plus I don't think JV will ever be as good as Marc Gasol
    @Chr1st1anL

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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    Really like the idea of JV/Marc Gasol trade. Raps are going all in on the backcourt. I don't think Raps have time to wait on JV's potential. Gasol would automatically make raps legit contenders in the east.
    I don't, Marc gasol isn't superior enough to jv to warrant the increased cost or lack of longevity given his age.

    Jv is significantly better than gasol at the same age

    Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Scraptor's Avatar
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    You're not getting Marc Gasol for offense, guys. You're getting him for his elite, DPOY-quality defense.

    The fact that he can be a high-post facilitator is just gravy.

    That said, with Lowe saying it would cost us too many "goodies" to upgrade, there isn't much of a point. We'd still have a hole at the four that's not fixed, and even fewer assets to fix it.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote JWash wrote: View Post
    I don't, Marc gasol isn't superior enough to jv to warrant the increased cost or lack of longevity given his age.

    Jv is significantly better than gasol at the same age

    Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk
    That's good for JV. My thing is who gives you a better chance to win within the next 3 years? While Kyle Lowry is in his prime.

    I don't ever see JV being a defensive player of the Year or being on any of the All-NBA teams.
    @Chr1st1anL

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote Scraptor wrote: View Post
    You're not getting Marc Gasol for offense, guys. You're getting him for his elite, DPOY-quality defense.

    The fact that he can be a high-post facilitator is just gravy.

    That said, with Lowe saying it would cost us too many "goodies" to upgrade, there isn't much of a point. We'd still have a hole at the four that's not fixed, and even fewer assets to fix it.
    Gasol makes players around him better with his vision. I actually wouldn't mind 2pat as a starter with Marc Gasol as our Center.
    @Chr1st1anL

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    Super Moderator Axel's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    My thing is who gives you a better chance to win within the next 3 years? .
    Maybe that's the wrong question. Who gives you the better chance to win (contend) at all?
    Heir, Prince of Cambridge

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    Maybe that's the wrong question. Who gives you the better chance to win (contend) at all?
    I think the answer is obviously Marc. Also I'm not worried about his age all that much. His brother is 5 years older than him and still producing at a high level. Both of them don't play and athletic game.
    @Chr1st1anL

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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    I think the answer is obviously Marc. Also I'm not worried about his age all that much. His brother is 5 years older than him and still producing at a high level. Both of them don't play and athletic game.
    I think we have a better chance by going in a completely different direction. Lowry's window simply doesn't match where this team is and where it needs to be.
    Heir, Prince of Cambridge

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    I think we have a better chance by going in a completely different direction. Lowry's window simply doesn't match where this team is and where it needs to be.
    Disagree, its not often when you have two All-Stars on your roster(first time in raptor history). I think you have to take advantage of this. Raptors would be clear cut contenders for the next 3 plus years.
    @Chr1st1anL

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    Raptors Republic Veteran KeonClark's Avatar
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    Quote Scraptor wrote: View Post
    It's a great read but it also hammers home how close we are to being stuck.

    Would LOVE to see us play on Christmas.
    I don't think we're stuck at all. As of today we're the 2nd best team in the east with young assets out the wazoo. Every contract is tradeable, even a demar 25 million is tradeable next year. I'm a firm believer in giving a general manager 5 years to execute. This is year 3 for Ujiri. As mentioned in the article, the 3 and D beast that is Carroll hasn't been healthy since last year's playoffs. We haven't seen it yet. This years playoffs and more specifically this offseason will finally unlock a clear idea, I believe, on how and when we get to the top tier. We are actually a lot closer to that tier than reading around these boards would indicate. And a large chunk of that is due to the leap in basketball iq demar derozan has taken.

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    I thought we couldn't, for most intents and purposes, trade JV until the end of the season - what's the point then?

    We've been eyeing up Horford for a while now. A trade would allow us to pretty much "contend" and then in the summer become a super-spender contender (while still having the youth and flexibillity that Brooklyn didn't). There's going to be a little window here where everyone else is stuck at the cap while we can spend over to have-it-all, but that depends on your ability to trade for a great free-agent to be, and your confidence you can (go over the cap to) sign them.

    Between now and the draft there are going to be trades, that looks pretty clear. The question is whether Masai throws a bone to Casey at the deadline for once, or let Casey sink or swim again and wait for the draft.

    We have too many solid player-prospects, and we are in need another elite player - looks like there's a storm comin'. Masai is like the female tiger, lurking in the grass, as a gazelle approaches.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Just Is's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    Disagree, its not often when you have two All-Stars on your roster(first time in raptor history). I think you have to take advantage of this. Raptors would be clear cut contenders for the next 3 plus years.
    Vince and Antonio Davis say hi.

    With that said; trading JV for Marc Gasol a bad move. It's possible that JV may never be as good of a player as him but given his age and current production level; there's literally nothing to say that he can't provide enough for a significantly longer time to balance that out.

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