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Thread: Happy Draft Day Everyone! Big changes coming? What do you want to see happen?

  1. #61
    Raptors Republic Starter phez's Avatar
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    so a player who gets volume stats to go along with his volume minutes = bad
    ???????????

  2. #62
    Raptors Republic Veteran rocwell's Avatar
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    any news yet?????

  3. #63
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote phez wrote: View Post
    so a player who gets volume stats to go along with his volume minutes = bad
    ???????????
    When a player scores a lot of points by taking a lot of shots, while doing very little of everything else.....yes, that's bad. Very bad.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  4. #64
    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Quote phez wrote: View Post
    so a player who gets volume stats to go along with his volume minutes = bad
    ???????????
    A player who is only a volume scorer isn't worth $10 mill. Until Demar adds to his game, he is just another overpaid winger who can't shoot (we must be the only team in the league with 3 players like that at the same time)

  5. #65
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Should swing by and read Craiger's great breakdown of the teams Usage Rate's and Efficeincy's.
    Even Craiger (a steadfast critic of Derozan as I recall) is surprised by the numbers he found.

    I really don't think Demar is our problem.
    I agree DeMar isn't the problem. But it would be a mistake to label him as part of the "core" going forward.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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  7. #66
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    It takes two to tango.... Ujiri might want to deal badly but if all the deals are terrible then he can't do much. Despite the BC/Toronto media spin, this team does not have great assets to trade.



    I think the caveat here is "at the price he demands". Rudy Gay at $10,000,000 might be worthwhile but is Rudy Gay at nearly double that good value? The obvious answer is no. I think Gay's contract is going to drive that bus more than Gay's skills. Unfortunate fact of life in the NBA. Salaries matter almost as much as talent.
    I get that, but you could say the same about BC. I'm sure he badly wanted to make a deal happen to make the team better, but there wasn't anything worth making a transaction over. So the point is if neither guy could make anythig happen then why the change? I'm really hoping Ujiri can do what BC couldn't and make a beleiver out of me.

    Regarding remarks about Gay's contract and the worthiness of it...I always thing you have to consider the market here in Toronto and how attractive we are to free agents. How easily could we get a player of Gay's talent level at a lesser contract in free agency? Not too easily I'm afraid. It often comes down to trades in which case the playing feild is much more level, but how many teams want to trade a player making $20 mil/year that is worth $20 mil/year? This is the reason I'm a big advocate of tanking and building through the draft......now I'm off topic...

  8. #67
    Raptors Republic Starter phez's Avatar
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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    A player who is only a volume scorer isn't worth $10 mill. Until Demar adds to his game, he is just another overpaid winger who can't shoot (we must be the only team in the league with 3 players like that at the same time)
    you people are crazy. truly repping tdot. what do you really want? do you want him to be lebron james for half the price?

    he has better fg% than westbrook, harden, JJ, jr smith, paul george, the list goes one. they all only have 1-3 more attempts pg than derozan (paul george is the same). but again, hes 11th in MADE.

    you want to talk about defense? yea, hes just average in the league. not below, but just average. average steals, average dreb. yet there are games where gets 3, 4 steals a game.

    you can argue his pricetag is high, but theres no way you can argue against his production. which none of you seem to be doing aside from throwing out blanket statements 'he sucks'

    i guess only top 5 players in the entire league in all categories are only good enough for the raptors?

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  10. #68
    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    Quote phez wrote: View Post
    you people are crazy. truly repping tdot. what do you really want? do you want him to be lebron james for half the price?

    he has better fg% than westbrook, harden, JJ, jr smith, paul george, the list goes one. they all only have 1-3 more attempts pg than derozan (paul george is the same). but again, hes 11th in MADE.

    you want to talk about defense? yea, hes just average in the league. not below, but just average. average steals, average dreb. yet there are games where gets 3, 4 steals a game.

    you can argue his pricetag is high, but theres no way you can argue against his production. which none of you seem to be doing aside from throwing out blanket statements 'he sucks'

    i guess only top 5 players in the entire league in all categories are only good enough for the raptors?
    oh, and he's only 23..
    The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

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  12. #69
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Toronto's fan base is so hilarious. If we had Lebron James there would be hatred towards him if we had MJ there would be nitpicking.

  13. #70
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote enlightenment wrote: View Post
    Jrue and Young for Rudy and Lowry?
    In a nano second
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

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  15. #71
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    I think DeMar represents a conflict point between analytics geeks and intangibles guys. DeMar's analytics are mediocre, that much is true. But basketball isn't baseball and it can't JUST be about analytics because that doesn't really work: Chris Paul has zero championships and in part it's because his amazing stats are counterbalanced by a control freak personality that hurts teams.

    DeMar has a stupidly good work ethic, isn't a selfish player, actually wants to play for Toronto, and makes the locker room a better place. That really does matter. Is he overpaid right now? Definitely. Would he be overpaid at 6 million instead of 9.5? I tend to think he wouldn't be.

    The million-dollar question, then, is "is he tradeable" and the answer to that question is a qualified "yes." Out of Rudy, Lowry, Ross and DeMar (our "good" trade assets), I think DeMar is the one you want to trade least.

  16. #72
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote phez wrote: View Post
    lmao.

    top 20 in the league in FGM, top 10 in FTM, 11th in total points, top 20 in PPG.
    9th in PPG amongst guards, 11th in FGM, 8th in FTM.

    clearly he is shit and we should amnesty him immediately.
    http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...l=1#post212660

    He is an average starter making above average money.... Well above average..... Like double it.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

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  18. #73
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote phez wrote: View Post
    you people are crazy. truly repping tdot. what do you really want? do you want him to be lebron james for half the price?

    he has better fg% than westbrook, harden, JJ, jr smith, paul george, the list goes one. they all only have 1-3 more attempts pg than derozan (paul george is the same). but again, hes 11th in MADE.

    you want to talk about defense? yea, hes just average in the league. not below, but just average. average steals, average dreb. yet there are games where gets 3, 4 steals a game.

    you can argue his pricetag is high, but theres no way you can argue against his production. which none of you seem to be doing aside from throwing out blanket statements 'he sucks'

    i guess only top 5 players in the entire league in all categories are only good enough for the raptors?
    http://www.thenbageek.com/players/co..._ids%5B%5D=238

    Here is DeRozan compared to the players you list and average SG.

    Do you notice all the red in derozans line? He is below average in a lot of categories.

    Also, all those guys can create for themselves.

    Top 5 would be great but I'd settle for average but I would expect more at $9.5m per year.
    Last edited by mcHAPPY; Thu Jun 27th, 2013 at 02:59 PM.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

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  20. #74
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    Should swing by and read Craiger's great breakdown of the teams Usage Rate's and Efficeincy's.
    Even Craiger (a steadfast critic of Derozan as I recall) is surprised by the numbers he found.

    I really don't think Demar is our problem.
    I saw that but it is really in depth and I only have my iPhone right now. I'll look closer later.

    Problem i see is that still doesn't solve his lack of range or limited contributions elsewhere or reliance on being spoon fed off screens.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

  21. #75
    Raptors Republic All-Star Jclaw's Avatar
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    anyone frustrated by the rumours of a potential boston-nj deal showing that boston will blow it up and start over. Even if we just keep some of our future core, injuries aside, we will still be 7-11.

  22. #76
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    Quote phez wrote: View Post
    you people are crazy. truly repping tdot. what do you really want? do you want him to be lebron james for half the price?

    he has better fg% than westbrook, harden, JJ, jr smith, paul george, the list goes one. they all only have 1-3 more attempts pg than derozan (paul george is the same). but again, hes 11th in MADE.

    you want to talk about defense? yea, hes just average in the league. not below, but just average. average steals, average dreb. yet there are games where gets 3, 4 steals a game.

    you can argue his pricetag is high, but theres no way you can argue against his production. which none of you seem to be doing aside from throwing out blanket statements 'he sucks'

    i guess only top 5 players in the entire league in all categories are only good enough for the raptors?
    Phez you can't bring things like facts to this debate. It's been tried. Don't show these people analytic stats that show his player value either. His win share value had a massive jump last year-- don't mention that. He's in 20 of Toronto's 20 best statistical 5 man lineups (http://www.82games.com/1213/1213TOR2.HTM)...but he's horrible!

    Hey if they trade him, they trade him. But let's look at dude for what he is. Bargnani NEVER had the stats Demar has with an even higher usage per 48. Dude is pretty solid.

  23. #77
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    I'm hearing on twitter that all trades had to be done at 2pm today....which doesn't jive since I've seen numerous draft night swaps

  24. #78
    Raptors Republic All-Star Soft Euro's Avatar
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    Fact: that's the top 20 most used line-ups...

  25. #79
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Jclaw wrote: View Post
    anyone frustrated by the rumours of a potential boston-nj deal showing that boston will blow it up and start over. Even if we just keep some of our future core, injuries aside, we will still be 7-11.
    Would be even more frustrating if Boston blows it up, and somehow lands Wiggins :|
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  26. #80
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Would be even more frustrating if Boston blows it up, and somehow lands Wiggins :|
    No trolling Nilanka :P

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