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Thread: Happy Draft Day Everyone! Big changes coming? What do you want to see happen?

  1. #741
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    Brooklyn won 49 games last year. They added two players who, while clearly not anywhere near their prime, can still be effective in reduced minutes and are miles better than the players they are replacing. They still have Williams and Lopez who are both very good players. Yeah, Brooklyn is a pretender but they were way, way better than Toronto last year and they will be better than last year. The Knicks won 54 games. I agree that the Knicks may have peaked but they were 20 games better than Toronto and have only lost Kidd.

    This team won 34 games last year. Now, I understand there are some mitigating factors at play but the Raps are not going to improve by 15 wins overnight. Not without significant upgrades.
    I don't get how you guys think talent is an issue. We arguably have 4 top 10 players their position (If JV makes a leap next year, he could be top 5). IMO it has more to do with the system than the actual players, this team had no identity and the offense was horrendous. That is what this team needs to improve on, playing as a unit and improving on both ends of the floor while creating a defensive identity.
    You can't count this team out just yet. Its too early

  2. #742
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    Miami took Kabongo....fuckers

  3. #743
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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  4. #744
    Raptors Republic Veteran Bendit's Avatar
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    With Chalmers, Cole and ? why would he go there? Seriously, doesnt he have a better chance of cracking our lineup...and being in his hometown? Maybe Bosh invited him to dinner?

  5. #745
    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    IWe arguably have 4 top 10 players their position (If JV makes a leap next year, he could be top 5).
    What? Who? The only guy you could make an argument for is Gay and he's at the back end of the list. Lebron, Melo, Durant, Pierce, George and Leonard are all better players and that isn't even counting guys like Young, Josh Smith and Ilyasova who are sorta SFs.

    Lowry, Derozan, Amir and JV are all average to slightly above average players, which is why the team won 34 games and finished in the bottom half of the NBA. Now JV will get better cause he's a stud. But the other guys are mediocre. If the Raps had 4 top-10 players at their respective positions, the team would already be a legit second round playoff team or even a championship contender. Even Miami, OKC, Indy and SA can't boast they have such a lineup and they are the championship favourites.

  6. #746
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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    With Chalmers, Cole and ? why would he go there? Seriously, doesnt he have a better chance of cracking our lineup...and being in his hometown? Maybe Bosh invited him to dinner?
    Ya but which team would you rather play for?

    Edit: Also Cole is a scoring PG, Kabongo is a passing PG so theoretically they could both act as Chalmers' backup depending on the situation.

  7. #747
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    our current roster when healthy is 38 - 48 wins and at most a 2nd round playoff exit. So tweaks are necessary, let's not kid ourselves. If Rudy and JV both blow up then we will be closer to 50. This is taking into consideration the number of teams going fishing for Wiggins

  8. #748
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    I don't get how you guys think talent is an issue. We arguably have 4 top 10 players their position (If JV makes a leap next year, he could be top 5). IMO it has more to do with the system than the actual players, this team had no identity and the offense was horrendous. That is what this team needs to improve on, playing as a unit and improving on both ends of the floor while creating a defensive identity.
    You can't count this team out just yet. Its too early
    Lowry is ot a top 10 PG. Paul, Rondo, Rose, Westbrook, D-Will, Wall, Curry, Holiday, Lawson, Parker. Stopping there without listing more. That's 10. Those guys are all better than Lowry. Hands down.

    DeMar may be a top 10 SG, but he's not a top 40 player, probably. So it's more an indictment of the weakness of the position.

    Gay is maybe top 5 SF on a good night....he doesn't have enough of those though. I don't think he's a top 20 player in this league.

    JV can be a top 5 C. I think he will be a top 10 C next season, at least by the end.

    The Raps still need help, but it's not so bad. If they got a top 5 player somewhere and kept JV and Gay, they'd have a real core. Although for PGs might have to say top 10, because it's pretty hard to decide on an exact top 5 other than Paul and Rose (if he returns with no issues) being at the top.

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  10. #749
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    I don't get how you guys think talent is an issue. We arguably have 4 top 10 players their position (If JV makes a leap next year, he could be top 5). IMO it has more to do with the system than the actual players, this team had no identity and the offense was horrendous. That is what this team needs to improve on, playing as a unit and improving on both ends of the floor while creating a defensive identity.
    You can't count this team out just yet. Its too early
    First off:

    Rudy - top 10, maybe, but definitely bottom half of the top 10 small forwards in the league. Do you take Rudy over LeBron, Durant, Carmelo, or Kawhi Leonard? No, you don't. And you probably have to think hard about whether you take Rudy over Luol Deng or Paul Pierce. And that's BEFORE you start thinking about Rudy's whale salary, which makes him worse by far.

    DeMar - Not better than Kobe, Harden, Wade, Iguodala, and you probably don't take him over Ginobil, Joe Johnson, Jamal Crawford or K-Mart.

    Lowry - Lowry isn't even top ten! CP3, Westbrook, Parker, Curry, Kyrie, John Wall, Deron Williams, Jrue, Lillard, Ty Lawson... I could go on here.

    Amir - I love Amir, but power forward is the deepest position in the league, and he's not in the top 10. Duncan, Bosh, Josh Smith, Serge Ibaka, David Lee, Z-Bo, LMA, Dirk, David West, Millsap... there's a lot of contenders there for top 10 and Amir doesn't even come close to cracking it.

    JoVal - Marc Gasol, Greg Monroe, Brook Lopez, Roy Hibbert, Dwight Howard, Anderson Varajao, Al Horford, Nikola Vucevic, Joakim Noah and Demarcus Cousins. JoVal has to play better than one of them to crack top ten. It'll take a banner year from him since bigs develop more slowly.

    This is why we aren't a serious contender. Our guys are all either starter-quality or just below it, but we don't have any real star players (Rudy comes closest and "borderline All-Star" seems to be his ceiling). And worse, they don't facilitate each other: we have three dedicated scorers (Rudy, DeMar and Lowry) in our starting five! We don't have the talent for much more than a first-round playoff exit right now.

  11. #750
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote thead wrote: View Post
    Miami took Kabongo....fuckers
    Holy crap this is so what I was afraid of. They need a PG. He's got huge potential. Low pressure individually, but a good chance to earn a role on a good team and start developing his game. Fuck Miami. FUCK MIAMI. I hope a hurricane destroys their arena.

  12. #751
    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    Holy crap this is so what I was afraid of. They need a PG. He's got huge potential. Low pressure individually, but a good chance to earn a role on a good team and start developing his game. Fuck Miami. FUCK MIAMI. I hope a hurricane destroys their arena.
    Just shovel the mud out of my house and yard. Pretty sure you could flood an arena with it....

  13. #752
    Raptors Republic Veteran Bendit's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    Just shovel the mud out of my house and yard. Pretty sure you could flood an arena with it....
    Oh, my sympathies....sorry about that. Did you have to move out? Hope things get better quick for all of you.

  14. #753
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote magoon wrote: View Post
    As a sidenote, last night did one important thing: it established the price for a 2014 draft pick with lottery potential.

    The math for that pick is [worth of Jrue Holiday, an All-Star point guard] minus [worth of Nerlens Noel, an untested first-round pick who slid because of injury concerns].

    In short: 2014 picks are going to be extremely expensive, and moreso if they have lottery potential. Rudy, JV and DeMar are probably the only guys who would net us a 2014 first-rounder, and we'd probably have to take crap along with the pick for DeMar.
    I do not think Rudy or DeMar return anything with potential to be a 2014 lottery pick. They might return a late 2014 pick but that would likely only come at the trade deadline when the standings would be fairly known.

    Holiday is an actual all-star.... not a potential or borderline or underachieving "star".
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
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  15. #754
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    Brooklyn won 49 games last year. They added two players who, while clearly not anywhere near their prime, can still be effective in reduced minutes and are miles better than the players they are replacing. They still have Williams and Lopez who are both very good players. Yeah, Brooklyn is a pretender but they were way, way better than Toronto last year and they will be better than last year. The Knicks won 54 games. I agree that the Knicks may have peaked but they were 20 games better than Toronto and have only lost Kidd.

    This team won 34 games last year. Now, I understand there are some mitigating factors at play but the Raps are not going to improve by 15 wins overnight. Not without significant upgrades.
    But don't forget they were 10-17 with Gay before finishing .500 with him.

    Oh wait.... shit.... that didn't prove any counter point did it.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
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  16. #755
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    Just shovel the mud out of my house and yard. Pretty sure you could flood an arena with it....
    Sorry to read that.

    Good luck with the restoration.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

  17. #756
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote magoon wrote: View Post
    First off:

    Rudy - top 10, maybe, but definitely bottom half of the top 10 small forwards in the league. Do you take Rudy over LeBron, Durant, Carmelo, or Kawhi Leonard? No, you don't. And you probably have to think hard about whether you take Rudy over Luol Deng or Paul Pierce. And that's BEFORE you start thinking about Rudy's whale salary, which makes him worse by far.

    DeMar - Not better than Kobe, Harden, Wade, Iguodala, and you probably don't take him over Ginobil, Joe Johnson, Jamal Crawford or K-Mart.

    Lowry - Lowry isn't even top ten! CP3, Westbrook, Parker, Curry, Kyrie, John Wall, Deron Williams, Jrue, Lillard, Ty Lawson... I could go on here.

    Amir - I love Amir, but power forward is the deepest position in the league, and he's not in the top 10. Duncan, Bosh, Josh Smith, Serge Ibaka, David Lee, Z-Bo, LMA, Dirk, David West, Millsap... there's a lot of contenders there for top 10 and Amir doesn't even come close to cracking it.

    JoVal - Marc Gasol, Greg Monroe, Brook Lopez, Roy Hibbert, Dwight Howard, Anderson Varajao, Al Horford, Nikola Vucevic, Joakim Noah and Demarcus Cousins. JoVal has to play better than one of them to crack top ten. It'll take a banner year from him since bigs develop more slowly.

    This is why we aren't a serious contender. Our guys are all either starter-quality or just below it, but we don't have any real star players (Rudy comes closest and "borderline All-Star" seems to be his ceiling). And worse, they don't facilitate each other: we have three dedicated scorers (Rudy, DeMar and Lowry) in our starting five! We don't have the talent for much more than a first-round playoff exit right now.
    Rudy is top 5 after Lebron, Durant, Melo, and Paul George.

    DeRozan IMO will be better than those 5 next season, he's already better than JJ, Crawford, and K Mart. Ginobilli is declining so he should pass him too

    Lowry, i agree he isn't top 10 maybe on par with Ty Lawson if anything

    Valanciunas, i'd take him over Vuecvic and Lopez, Horford is more of a PF

    thats 3 players in the top 10 for their position...

  18. #757
    Raptors Republic All-Star ebrian's Avatar
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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    He was a top rated PG coming out of HS. The kids got talent for sure.
    So he's the next Telfair?
    your pal,
    ebrian

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  20. #758
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    How can you say that with so much confidence? Btw its Brooklyn not NJ...
    The Raptors IMO will be a better team than Brooklyn and NYC. NYC tried to go all in last year and couldn't, now they barely have any room to operate with all the money locked into their injury prone front court of Amar'e, Melo, and Chandler. As for Brooklyn, i think they are massively overrated. They traded Gerald wallace for two Vets who are on their last legs as NBA players, KG will probably retire within a year and same with paul pierce.
    You don't like those NY teams; didn't you say last year too that we would be better than New York? Didn't happen last year, we need a lot of changes if it will happen this year.

  21. #759
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    ...DeRozan IMO will be better than those 5 next season, he's already better than JJ, Crawford, and K Mart. Ginobilli is declining so he should pass him too...
    It's good to be loyal, and I am not a DeRozan basher, but man, you need to lift up those glasses periodically or you are going to have a head on collision with a rose you didn't see coming.

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  23. #760
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    Rudy is top 5 after Lebron, Durant, Melo, and Paul George.
    Shoot me but I'd much rather have Kawhi Leonard than Rudy. At least Kawhi tries on defense.
    Twitter - @thekid_it

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