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Thread: Summer League 2013

  1. #701
    Raptors Republic Starter saints91's Avatar
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    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    BLOCKS =/= DEFENSE

    Idk why people can't freaking understand this. Take Serge Ibaka for example, sure he averages 2 or 3 blocks a game, but his defense in the post is terrible and overall he's just average defensively.

    I mean look at the last 2 DPOYs

    Gasol - 1.7bpg
    Chandler - 1.1bpg (1.3bpg the year he won)

    A block doesn't even necessarily get you a stop either, especially if you're swatting it out of bounds or back to where the other team can get it.
    I 100% agree. Defence is about positioning, changing shots and forcing your opponent into low percentage chances. Blocks are just for highlight reels, just as dunks are compared to a layups. I also feel the same way about rebounding. A player might not have great rebounding numbers but if he seals his man and doesn't allow him to get the rebound, it's just as affective. Stats don't tell the whole story.
    Last edited by saints91; Mon Jul 15th, 2013 at 06:55 PM.

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  3. #702
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote themasao wrote: View Post
    It pains me to think about it. For all the shit we give BC about his FA signings etc. This may be the move (or non-move) that ultimately hurts us the most in the long run.

    For some reason it's made worse in my eyes because Doug Smith relentlessly defended leaving Drummond. Still does.
    I know it's just summer league, but Drummond was a monster for Detroit in their games. Two bigs like JV and Drummond could have set us up for years as one of if not the best front court in the league. Ridiculous potential.

  4. #703
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    BLOCKS =/= DEFENSE

    Idk why people can't freaking understand this. Take Serge Ibaka for example, sure he averages 2 or 3 blocks a game, but his defense in the post is terrible and overall he's just average defensively.

    I mean look at the last 2 DPOYs

    Gasol - 1.7bpg
    Chandler - 1.1bpg (1.3bpg the year he won)

    A block doesn't even necessarily get you a stop either, especially if you're swatting it out of bounds or back to where the other team can get it back.

    What's more important defensively is a center's ability to control the paint with their size and force people to miss shots or avoid taking it all the way to the rim. Post defense and pick and roll defense are also far more important. Val's mobility and length give him a chance to be great at all of these things.

    I suppose you think Monta Ellis is an elite defender too because he's always top 10 in steals too right?

    Defensive prowess is difficult to measure with raw stats.
    His a poor pick n roll defender as well. He is a good post the defender but that's it. Not that good of a help side defender. With this type competition he should be able to get a least one block in two games

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Bendit's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    I know it's just summer league, but Drummond was a monster for Detroit in their games. Two bigs like JV and Drummond could have set us up for years as one of if not the best front court in the league. Ridiculous potential.
    I am not sure that the 2 would be compatible being on the floor together....I was a supporter of drafting him though after missing out on Barnes & Lillard simply because of the unique asset he would have presented either on the team or for future moves. BC's vision was of course to go for a player more ready.

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  7. #705
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    I am not sure that the 2 would be compatible being on the floor together....I was a supporter of drafting him though after missing out on Barnes & Lillard simply because of the unique asset he would have presented either on the team or for future moves. BC's vision was of course to go for a player more ready.
    In my opinion, Drummond's highest value to the Raptors would be as an asset that can be flipped. I can't see Drummond/JV working together as they both would be back to the basket type of posts.

    The sad thing is that Drummond would easily fetch an all-star caliber player for a team that is trying to tank. I heard rumblings that Detroit was interested in Rondo, but Boston would only do it if Drummond was on the table (and he's untouchable).

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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    In my opinion, Drummond's highest value to the Raptors would be as an asset that can be flipped. I can't see Drummond/JV working together as they both would be back to the basket type of posts.

    The sad thing is that Drummond would easily fetch an all-star caliber player for a team that is trying to tank. I heard rumblings that Detroit was interested in Rondo, but Boston would only do it if Drummond was on the table (and he's untouchable).
    Exactly. Luckily we now have a GM that thinks in terms of assets rather than in terms of fit.

    You always want to draft, trade for and/or sign the player that has the highest value. This is why drafting Ross was silly. Not only was he a bad fit, he was lowly valued around the league and doesn't have any chance of raising that value since he has a far superior player playing his position on the same team.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    I am not sure that the 2 would be compatible being on the floor together....I was a supporter of drafting him though after missing out on Barnes & Lillard simply because of the unique asset he would have presented either on the team or for future moves. BC's vision was of course to go for a player more ready.
    It's hard to say if they are compatible or not. Both Z-Bo and Gasol are "skilled" bigs, but compliment each other so well on the floor. Defensively and on the offensive glass, JV and Drummond would be a nightmare to deal with for opposing teams.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star iblastoff's Avatar
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    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    Exactly. Luckily we now have a GM that thinks in terms of assets rather than in terms of fit.

    You always want to draft, trade for and/or sign the player that has the highest value. This is why drafting Ross was silly. Not only was he a bad fit, he was lowly valued around the league and doesn't have any chance of raising that value since he has a far superior player playing his position on the same team.
    i'm not a huge ross fan either, but your logic is horrible.

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  13. #709
    Raptors Republic All-Star stretch's Avatar
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    Summer League is over for Kelly Olynyk but it turns out he has a fan in Kevin McHale.

    http://bostonherald.com/sports/celti..._olynyk_s_game

    “I tell you what, he does some interesting stuff. I was telling our guys that it’s been a long time since I’ve seen a guy get an offensive rebound and just quick lay it over the rim like he did out there. No one else reacted. You play by yourself when you do that, because people aren’t reacting like you are.“He’s learned how to play step-throughs, pump fakes and stuff. I mean, he does a lot of interesting stuff. And for a young kid, he’s got good vision.“He’s just a very nice, nice player. He does a lot of old-school stuff.” - See more at: http://bostonherald.com/sports/celti....XdWro7QR.dpuf

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    Quote iblastoff wrote: View Post
    i'm not a huge ross fan either, but your logic is horrible.
    It really isn't.

    At best Ross is and was going to be serviceable 3+D type player. When you have a potential star center and/or guys with perceived star potential like Rivers/Lamb on the board, you don't take a role player.

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    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    It really isn't.

    At best Ross is and was going to be serviceable 3+D type player. When you have a potential star center and/or guys with perceived star potential like Rivers/Lamb on the board, you don't take a role player.
    I will say this much: it is worth remembering that there were serious concerns about Drummond's ability to transition to the NBA in early 2012 and those stuck. It's partly why he slid so far behind lesser players like Ross, Dion Waiters and Thomas Robinson. Hindsight is 20/20.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star TRex's Avatar
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    Quote magoon wrote: View Post
    I will say this much: it is worth remembering that there were serious concerns about Drummond's ability to transition to the NBA in early 2012 and those stuck. It's partly why he slid so far behind lesser players like Ross, Dion Waiters and Thomas Robinson. Hindsight is 20/20.
    Agreed. Plus the fact that the Raps already have JV. So it doesn't make sense for them to draft another C.

    When the Warriors took Barnes at 7th. The guy that i was hoping the Raps would take at 8th was Rivers. Lamb was my 2nd choice. Ross at 8th was a surprise.
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  17. #713
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    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    Exactly. Luckily we now have a GM that thinks in terms of assets rather than in terms of fit.

    You always want to draft, trade for and/or sign the player that has the highest value. This is why drafting Ross was silly. Not only was he a bad fit, he was lowly valued around the league and doesn't have any chance of raising that value since he has a far superior player playing his position on the same team.
    But that's the sort of logic that saw Kawhi Leonard drop in the previous draft. He was seen as a guy who would be primarily a role-player for his defense, shooting and raw athleticism (not to mention wingspan, the one thing he has that Ross has no chance of developing). Guys like Vesely, Biyombo, Knight, and Walker were seen as being higher-upside assets.
    And a couple years into his career, that's the sort of role-player he's been. Just at a championship-calibre level. Miami has a couple guys who fit the same mold of role-player. Most championship teams do. Hulking, physical, high-scoring but poor-shooting centres are somewhat less common on championship teams.

    And yes, one year into their careers, Drummond is the more valuable asset, because he's developed faster, and overcome many of his potential red flags. But if I'm building a championship team, I'd take a Ross who reaches his full potential over a Drummond who reaches his full potential. One style of player is a problem to build around. The other has a history of fitting on championship teams.

  18. #714
    Raptors Republic Starter saints91's Avatar
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    Each player is coming off their rookie season. It's way too early to predict who will have the better career. Yes Drummond was physically dominate in his rookie season, but that's not a reflection of his whole career. We have no clue what his potential will be, nor do we with Ross.

    As an optimistic fan, I have faith that Ross will live up to or exceed his draft position. I see enough talent in him that I believe he will be something special.

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  20. #715
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Ross needs to calm down and play ball like he is more than capable of doing, Some games he plays so hesitant and "tight" instead of just playing the game, its like Ross suffers from stage fright.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star lilmamba_'s Avatar
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    Ross needs to calm down and play ball like he is more than capable of doing, Some games he plays so hesitant and "tight" instead of just playing the game, its like Ross suffers from stage fright.
    I don't think its the stage fright he's afraid of, i think its the fact that hes afraid to make a mistake. therefore playing tight or hesitant. Ross used to get sent to the bench after any little mistake. I understand what coach casey was trying to do but when you know your going to be benched, and that your coach doesn't have that trust/ confidence in you its difficult to play your game.
    What they got to say now? Nothing they can say now. Mobbin' on the low. Winnin' on the low
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  23. #717
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
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    Quote lilmamba_ wrote: View Post
    I don't think its the stage fright he's afraid of, i think its the fact that hes afraid to make a mistake. therefore playing tight or hesitant. Ross used to get sent to the bench after any little mistake. I understand what coach casey was trying to do but when you know your going to be benched, and that your coach doesn't have that trust/ confidence in you its difficult to play your game.

    i agree with this but i also think it's a mans game and he should grow up a bit. he has literally been playing his game his entire life. coach isn't asking him to do anything new. i think a lot is that for the first time he isn't one of the best players out there and is being asked to use his head a bit more. coach wants to trust him and wants to have confidence in him but again he has to earn it. it's all on him
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  24. #718
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    Quote magoon wrote: View Post
    I will say this much: it is worth remembering that there were serious concerns about Drummond's ability to transition to the NBA in early 2012 and those stuck. It's partly why he slid so far behind lesser players like Ross, Dion Waiters and Thomas Robinson. Hindsight is 20/20.

    The only serious concern in the draft room was on BC's state of mind after he picked Ross.
    Just stick to the stuff about hindsight.

    edit : I think ross will come good btw. serviceable.

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    Who else has seen this Schroeder kid play? This guy is gonna be really good.

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  27. #720
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    The mistakes that Ross got sent to the bench for wasnt his offensive mistakes hes a rookie what do you expec? He got sent to the bench cause he was getting lost on Defense every possession. Ross was a good pick imo, Im pretty sure the original plan was to eventually move DeMar to starting SF and have Ross start as SG with a breakout star Bargnani as the stretch 4 but that didnt pan out.

    BC fever dreams. Im not sold on Drummond

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