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  • #16
    NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    This is exactly what i envision next season to be. The negativity needs to go, BC has left so there is no reason to be negative anymore.
    I thought my original post was pretty positive to be honest.

    The off season is far from over.

    The reality is (positive or negative or whatever) the boss and the GM both have said this roster is not good enough, is not close to competing for championships, and is going to see change.

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    • #17
      I meant to put this in the original post:

      Will Canada’s team enter the hunt for Andrew Wiggins and his talented classmates? Will the Raptors beef up for a playoff run?

      Either way, a decision needs to be made. sooner rather than later.

      The rest of the division has laid out its path, the Raptors must decide on a plan as well.

      The team can do little and hope for good health, given the paper-thin roster, and a playoff berth. That wouldn’t make much sense. It can tear the foundation down and aim for lottery luck (an option that would take work and patience with no guarantees of a payoff). Or Toronto could retool. Using the amnesty provision on Linas Kleiza, would open up room to use the mid-level exception ($5.15 million) and/or the bi-annual exception ($2.01 million); Or, perhaps Andrea Bargnani could be an amnesty victim? That would open up even more money ($10.75 million vs. Kleiza’s $4.6 million), allowing the Raptors to perhaps use both cap exceptions as well as move Kleiza’s expiring contract for a solid veteran on a multi-year deal a team is trying to clear from its books.

      Or Bargnani could be swapped, perhaps with another starter as a sweetener.

      Ujiri has options then. And he was given a lot of money to pick the right ones.

      It’s time to get the ball rolling.

      Because right now, Toronto is the most listing, irrelevant franchise in the Atlantic.


      http://www.torontosun.com/2013/06/28...pt-for-raptors

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      • #18
        magoon wrote: View Post
        There's two problems with this idea.

        1.) Nick Young is a free agent so we don't need to trade for him

        2.) The idea that the solution to our problems is Nick fucking Young



        And here's the other problem: deciding that being mediocre enough to get into the first round of the Eastern Conference playoffs is somehow a winning objective. I want to aim for a championship, not some idle notion of "respectability."

        The worst bit is that we are seeing this work, right now, before our eyes - Cleveland and Orlando are both willing to make the necessary sacrifices in order to build back up to longterm contender status. And Raps fans just aren't willing to do it. I don't know why we bothered firing Colangelo, really: he was the perfect GM for this franchise, filled with fans who think that Rudy Gay is the man to take us to the top or we just need one more small piece.
        I was talking about Thaddeus Young (not Nick).. Nick is a free agent.

        Championship teams are not built overnight. Rondo is a perennial all-star. He's one of the studs that the team is lacking. Joining the tank brigade in 2014 is useless... there are just too many teams aiming for the Wiggins Cup, that even if Toronto blew up the team, they may end up 8th/9th place and will be looking at a semi-crappy pick and no assets on their roster other than JV.

        The team is not just one piece a way.. never said that. But they need legitimate assets. Young >> Bargnani.. and Rondo >> Lowry+DeMar. That makes the team better immediately in my opinion.

        They can make the playoffs next year and build on it, similarly to how Indiana/Memphis have gradually gotten better each year. With Rondo on the roster who knows.. perhaps a free agent would be willing to play with him. And JV/Rondo look very good on paper that I actually think they could end up better than Indiana sooner than later.

        Mediocre is getting highly paid vets that when they retire leave the team with nothing. Rondo/Young are not highly paid, nor are they about to retire. The team will still be young and they can build on top of it.

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        • #19
          magoon wrote: View Post
          More specifically, this is what I would do:

          1. Rudy Gay to Golden State for Richard Jefferson, Andris Biedrins, Harrison Barnes and Golden State's 2014 first-rounder. (If GS won't trade Barnes, Draymond Green will serve, but aim for Barnes.)

          2. Kyle Lowry to Dallas for Dallas' 2014 first-rounder. Or Atlanta. Either/or. Dallas is more likely to buy in, though.

          3. Terrence Ross to the Lakers for L.A.'s 2014 first-rounder.

          4. Kleiza and Bargnani for whatever we can get, or amnesty them. If Bargs puts in a good showing at Eurobasket we might even be able to get something good for him, although a 2014 pick is probably a pipe dream. But maybe we can get a rook who later on can BECOME a 2014 pick.

          5. Spend the season working on developing your core: Jonas, Amir, DeMar, Acy, Landry (who probably can't be traded, so make the most of it - he's not a bad player). Don't be afraid to lose, but don't lose for the sake of losing. Lose because we're developing offensive and defensive strategies for our core.
          lol, just like that! Should be simple to get 4 GMs to buy in to "the plan"

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          • #20
            Something that makes me feel more positive about the future of this team is reminding myself that at least we're not the Bucks or Suns. You guys should try that! lol

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            • #21
              I've been having conversation with @RaptorsMR since draft night. Interesting perspectives because he is not politically correct in his replies and he actually is part of organization. Obviously has no input in basketball decisions but I would think/hope he has more insight than any of us:





































              MONEY SHOT:







              https://twitter.com/tradeBargnani/st...91974964269058

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              • #22
                RaptorsMR @RaptorsMR

                @tradeBargnani Doug's column had note only two 1st rd picks since '85 won title w/ team that drafted them. For me, tanking doesn't work.
                Off the top of my Head Tim Duncan, Darko, Joe Dumars, Tony parker that's already 4, that conveniently cuts off 84, to add Hakkeem & Jordan, Kobe Bryant was drafted by Charlotte for the Lakers, the pick was traded the day before and if it wasn't for Jordan, you'd have a lot more, when the same team wins 6 out of 8 titles, doesn't leave much of a chance for others, but many of the title contenders drafted their star player, Indiana, Utah, New york, Seattle. And i know very little of nba before 92 i'm sure there's more.

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                • #23
                  Addition to conversation which totally destroyed and dashed my hopes:





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                  • #24
                    Dino4life wrote: View Post
                    Off the top of my Head Tim Duncan, Darko, Joe Dumars, Tony parker that's already 4, that conveniently cuts off 84, to add Hakkeem & Jordan, Kobe Bryant was drafted by Charlotte for the Lakers, the pick was traded the day before and if it wasn't for Jordan, you'd have a lot more, when the same team wins 6 out of 8 titles, doesn't leave much of a chance for others, but many of the title contenders drafted their star player, Indiana, Utah, New york, Seattle. And i know very little of nba before 92 i'm sure there's more.
                    I think he meant first overall picks

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                    • #25
                      Sam17 wrote: View Post
                      I think he meant first overall picks
                      Well then in that case i dont see the value of that argument, if Micheal Jordan and Lebron James couldn't win by themselves, no one can and no one will ever.

                      The argument for building through the draft is collecting players with youth and talent for the long haul. to build a team, no one is advocating that Anthony Davis, Kyrie or Wiggins will win you a title, but having them on the same team might.

                      Now that i think of it, Every title team since the 80's drafted their leader except for the 3 shaq titles and the 04 detroit title. and didnt have to be #1.(until the Big 3 of course)
                      Last edited by Dino4life; Sat Jun 29, 2013, 12:14 PM.

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                      • #26
                        Why does everyone get so upset thinking about just being good enough to make the playoffs next year? Saying "The goal is CHAMPIONSHIPS" well folk, I understand your excited, this is the first time our management has made championships a goal but like anything else, we must crawl before we walk, and walk before we run. It's a process, TL and MU were never planning on making it to the finals next year.
                        You come at the King, you best not miss.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Mr.Z wrote: View Post
                          Why does everyone get so upset thinking about just being good enough to make the playoffs next year? Saying "The goal is CHAMPIONSHIPS" well folk, I understand your excited, this is the first time our management has made championships a goal but like anything else, we must crawl before we walk, and walk before we run. It's a process, TL and MU were never planning on making it to the finals next year.
                          Its not that playoffs are a bad thing, its when you look beyond that. I was convinced we would make the playoffs next year as soon as the rudy gay trade happened, we could have kept Colangelo for that. The problem is the lack of flexibility beyond that, which means we will be back in the lottery really soon. Lowry becomes more expensive after next season, Derozan Becomes more expensive, Gay becomes more expensive if he sucks, might walk if he's good (player Option), we dont have a winning reputation to convince someone to accept 5 mil a year, when he's worth more. as talented as some of our players are, because of their contracts their trade value is diminished because we are going into year 3 of the new CBA, so teams wont accept bad contracts in trades unless it comes with a 1st rounder. So basically the only way to move forward without blowing up the team is hoping we find someone better than one of our starters with the 15th-18th pick in the next 2 years.

                          Because of that i was all for the boozer trade after the rudy gay trade (which i was against), we had to either go all in like the nets or blow it up like philly, this is why making the playoffs next year is not good enough. If you compare with washington, Detroit, Cleveland, for them making the playoffs is completly acceptable because all their best players are on rookie contracts, ours make at least three times as much but we end up with a similar record as them.
                          Last edited by Dino4life; Sat Jun 29, 2013, 12:55 PM.

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                          • #28
                            Dino4life wrote: View Post
                            Its not that playoffs are a bad thing, its when you look beyond that. I was convinced we would make the playoffs next year as soon as the rudy gay trade happened, we could have kept Colangelo for that. The problem is the lack of flexibility beyond that, which means we will be back in the lottery really soon. Lowry becomes more expensive after next season, Derozan Becomes more expensive, Gay becomes more expensive if he sucks, might walk if he's good (player Option), we dont have a winning reputation to convince someone to accept 5 mil a year, when he's worth more. as talented as some of our players are, because of their contracts their trade value is diminished because we are going into year 3 of the new CBA, so teams wont accept bad contracts in trades unless it comes with a 1st rounder. So basically the only way to move forward without blowing up the team is hoping we find someone better than one of our starters with the 15th-18th pick in the next 2 years.

                            Because of that i was all for the boozer trade after the rudy gay trade (which i was against), we had to either go all in like the nets or blow it up like philly, this is why making the playoffs next year is not good enough. If you compare with washington, Detroit, Cleveland, for them making the playoffs is completly acceptable because all their best players are on rookie contracts, ours make at least three times as much but we end up with a similar record as them.
                            So win the championship next year or blow it up? Only one of those options is possible and it does not guarantee success. Besides, we've never been in a worse position to blow-things up. First we would have to get rid of all our horrible contracts and expect Dwayne Casey and whatever players we keep on our roster to lose as much as possible which doesn't work because players love to win. Teams will never actually try to lose games, they aren't paid for that.
                            You come at the King, you best not miss.

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                            • #29
                              After the 4-19 start to the season the Raptors were a .500 team. And that was with one of the worst bench line-ups in the entire NBA. With all these others teams going into tank mode it might make sense for the Toronto to use that as leverage to get even more wins.

                              It's not easy trying to get guys to sign with our squad when we haven't even made the playoffs for five straight season. Maybe if we made it into the playoffs, one a few games, and showed signs of actual life it might make people more aware, seeing that the team is actually serious.

                              I just don't think it's smart to go the exact same rout as 1/3 of the other teams in the league.

                              And also, Detroit, Cleveland or Washington; none of them are going to make the playoffs next year.
                              You come at the King, you best not miss.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Mr.Z wrote: View Post
                                After the 4-19 start to the season the Raptors were a .500 team. And that was with one of the worst bench line-ups in the entire NBA. With all these others teams going into tank mode it might make sense for the Toronto to use that as leverage to get even more wins.

                                It's not easy trying to get guys to sign with our squad when we haven't even made the playoffs for five straight season. Maybe if we made it into the playoffs, one a few games, and showed signs of actual life it might make people more aware, seeing that the team is actually serious.

                                I just don't think it's smart to go the exact same rout as 1/3 of the other teams in the league.

                                And also, Detroit, Cleveland or Washington; none of them are going to make the playoffs next year.
                                And they were a 10-17 team after Gay trade and before #AprilFoolsGoldRun

                                These teams may not make it to the playoffs but they all have just as much of a shot as Toronto.

                                Detroit: They have a tonne of cap space and Andre Igoudala is a guy they have their sights on. They have two beasts up front.

                                Cleveland: A tonne of cap space, returning Varejuo, lots of young/improving talent.

                                Washington: 4-28 to start season minus Wall. Finished year .500 at 25-25.

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