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Thread: Raptors To Use Amnesty Clause on Kleiza

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    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    Default Raptors To Use Amnesty Clause on Kleiza

    I just had one thought on this...

    Why would we bother?

    1.) Could be dumped at trade deadline for cap relief

    2.) Could be used as filler in a bigger trade.

    3.) We won't be under the cap ANYWAY.

    4.) Amnesty does nothing in terms of opening up contracts.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    deadweight + big contract = amnesty
    The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    I don't have a link, but I read somewhere over the past few days that Ujiri is thinking along the same lines. That is, holding onto Kleiza and using him as trade-filler towards the deadline (since amnestying him makes little difference to our overall cap situation).
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic All-Star tucas's Avatar
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    Assuming Raptors don't waive Lowry they will be close to the Luxury tax. If they use the MLE and the bi annual exception they will be over. With harsh penalties for the tax kicking in, amnestying Kleiza really saves an additional 3 million(roughly) dollars out of MLSE pockets. Even thouh TL has said they will pay into the tax, why bother if you have a useless player you can drop and avoid the tax?

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    How many roster spots are taken up right now with Novak, Q. Rich and Camby? Is there room for a back up PG or do we have to make room?

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    Raptors Republic All-Star tucas's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    How many roster spots are taken up right now with Novak, Q. Rich and Camby? Is there room for a back up PG or do we have to make room?
    With JLIII, Pietrus and Anderson off the books I THINK we have 13 roster spots taken up. Still 2 left I believe

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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I don't have a link, but I read somewhere over the past few days that Ujiri is thinking along the same lines. That is, holding onto Kleiza and using him as trade-filler towards the deadline (since amnestying him makes little difference to our overall cap situation).
    This makes sense if we're under the luxury tax. Most of Kleiza's salary will be paid come trade deadline, making his contract a good trade asset.

    What people fail to understand about the amnesty provision is YOU'RE STILL PAYING THE GUY. From a business perspective, this is absolutely terrible. Unless you manage to generate more revenue (via signing someone else) or achieve substantial savings (e.g. luxury tax), it makes little sense to amnesty.

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote thead wrote: View Post
    I just had one thought on this...

    Why would we bother?

    1.) Could be dumped at trade deadline for cap relief

    2.) Could be used as filler in a bigger trade.

    3.) We won't be under the cap ANYWAY.

    4.) Amnesty does nothing in terms of opening up contracts.
    In theory, I completely agree. I don't see the point of using amnesty on an expiring contract, unless to achieve one/both of the following:

    - roster spot desperately needed (ie: to sign free agent or to facilitate trade)
    - to avoid luxury tax, however...

    Quote tucas wrote: View Post
    Assuming Raptors don't waive Lowry they will be close to the Luxury tax. If they use the MLE and the bi annual exception they will be over. With harsh penalties for the tax kicking in, amnestying Kleiza really saves an additional 3 million dollars out of MLSE pockets. Even thouh TL has said they will pay into the tax, why bother if you have a useless player you can drop and avoid the tax?
    When is luxury tax calculated? I recall teams like the Bulls last year looking to make deadline deals, in part to avoid being a tax team. If Kleiza is kept until the deadline (with the team salary into luxury tax) then dealt, won't they avoid luxury tax? They could always trade Kleiza to a team with cap space, along with enough cash to pay his 2nd half salary (approx. $2.3M), if an actual positive trade doesn't come to fruition. I'd rather maintain the trade asset whenever possible.

    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    How many roster spots are taken up right now with Novak, Q. Rich and Camby? Is there room for a back up PG or do we have to make room?
    By my calculation, the following players are under contract for 2013-14, as of today:
    1. Valanciunas
    2. Gray
    3. Camby
    4. Johnson
    5. Novak
    6. Acy
    7. Gay
    8. Fields
    9. Kleiza
    10. Richardson
    11. DeRozan
    12. Ross
    13. Lowry (non-guaranteed)

    That leaves the Raptors with 2 roster spots
    - only 1 PG on the roster
    - only 1 true PF on the roster

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    By my calculation, the following players are under contract for 2013-14, as of today:
    1. Valanciunas
    2. Gray
    3. Camby
    4. Johnson
    5. Novak
    6. Acy
    7. Gay
    8. Fields
    9. Kleiza
    10. Richardson
    11. DeRozan
    12. Ross
    13. Lowry (non-guaranteed)

    That leaves the Raptors with 2 roster spots
    - only 1 PG on the roster
    - only 1 true PF on the roster
    I think it's all but guaranteed that a 3rd spot will be opened when Camby's fate is decided. I don't see him changing his mind and deciding to join the team.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I think it's all but guaranteed that a 3rd spot will be opened when Camby's fate is decided. I don't see him changing his mind and deciding to join the team.
    Plus Q-Rich is likely to take a buy-out. He'll basically get $2M for helping Barg's move from Toronto to New York. So that's another roster spot open.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Dino4life's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post

    By my calculation, the following players are under contract for 2013-14, as of today:
    1. Valanciunas
    2. Gray
    3. Camby
    4. Johnson
    5. Novak
    6. Acy
    7. Gay
    8. Fields
    9. Kleiza
    10. Richardson
    11. DeRozan
    12. Ross
    13. Lowry (non-guaranteed)

    That leaves the Raptors with 2 roster spots
    - only 1 PG on the roster
    - only 1 true PF on the roster
    When you put it like that holy freaken wing congestion, that's 8 players out of 13 expected to play at 2-3 spots.

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    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I think it's all but guaranteed that a 3rd spot will be opened when Camby's fate is decided. I don't see him changing his mind and deciding to join the team.
    He might if Masai offers to either release him in time for a playoff team or attempt to trade him at the deadline

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I think it's all but guaranteed that a 3rd spot will be opened when Camby's fate is decided. I don't see him changing his mind and deciding to join the team.
    They could always keep Camby and look to deal him to a contender at the deadline. I could see MU talking to Camby about that and convincing him to stay. He could be a great mentor for Valanciunas over the first half of the season, while staying in game shape, with a promise to be sent to a playoff team by the deadline (similar to what BC did for Barbosa). Even if the Raps just flip him for an expiring contract and a 2nd round pick, that would be a pretty decent use of an asset at the deadline for all parties involved.

    I'd also be suprised if Richardson stays a Raptor beyond the trade deadline. With only the 1st season of his 3-year contract guaranteed, he's essentially an expiring contract as well, when it comes to trade talks.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star tucas's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    When is luxury tax calculated? I recall teams like the Bulls last year looking to make deadline deals, in part to avoid being a tax team. If Kleiza is kept until the deadline (with the team salary into luxury tax) then dealt, won't they avoid luxury tax? They could always trade Kleiza to a team with cap space, along with enough cash to pay his 2nd half salary (approx. $2.3M), if an actual positive trade doesn't come to fruition. I'd rather maintain the trade asset whenever possible.
    Even if raptors only pay for half his contract and ship him at the deadline, they'd still be over the tax if they use their exceptions. If they can ship him for a 2nd rounder or something before the amnesty window I say do it, otherwise amnesty him and avoid paying any tax

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    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    who cares if we pay tax though, if we end up getting ANYTHING for Kleiza by the trade deadline it's not like the tax limits our flexibility or that WE pay it

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    If Bargs can be moved, so can Klieza might not have to Amnesty him if we're lucky Fields can board a a bus out of town too.

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    Quote tucas wrote: View Post
    Assuming Raptors don't waive Lowry they will be close to the Luxury tax. If they use the MLE and the bi annual exception they will be over. With harsh penalties for the tax kicking in, amnestying Kleiza really saves an additional 3 million(roughly) dollars out of MLSE pockets. Even thouh TL has said they will pay into the tax, why bother if you have a useless player you can drop and avoid the tax?
    More importantly, not paying tax this year buys them another year before the repeater rate kicks in. Staying under the tax this year is important for flexibility a few years down the road.

    Another factor affecting our financial flexibility is that because we acquired a player via sign-and-trade (Richardson), the apron ($4 million above the tax line, or $75.6) becomes a hard cap for the remainder of the season.

    I haven't seen the dollars on Richardson's contract (are those out yet?), but we should be about $2 million below the tax line without amnestying Kleiza or stretching Fields. If we used our full MLE, that brings us right up against that hard cap, and we probably wouldn't have room to use much of the bi-annual.
    Last edited by octothorp; Tue Jul 2nd, 2013 at 01:06 PM.

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    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    IF he is finally healthy, Kleiza does have value. I know it can take a while for a player to return to form but I bet if he proves he is healthy someone will take him for something.

    IF we are tanking, playing Kleiza 20+ minutes and inflating his value is a great way to kill two birds with one stone

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    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote thead wrote: View Post
    who cares if we pay tax though, if we end up getting ANYTHING for Kleiza by the trade deadline it's not like the tax limits our flexibility or that WE pay it
    What's funny about the trade deadline is that there is a tonne of excitement, but nothing ever happens. Teams seem to be to scared to make moves during the season anymore.

    In theory having Kleiza's contract as an expiring is good if you can get an asset.. but in my opinion if we can't get an asset this summer (before July 17 as that is when the amnesty period ends) he should be amnestied. It can open the door for a full MLE which I think is a better asset then whatever you could get for Kleiza later on.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    In theory, I completely agree. I don't see the point of using amnesty on an expiring contract, unless to achieve one/both of the following:

    - roster spot desperately needed (ie: to sign free agent or to facilitate trade)
    - to avoid luxury tax, however...



    When is luxury tax calculated? I recall teams like the Bulls last year looking to make deadline deals, in part to avoid being a tax team. If Kleiza is kept until the deadline (with the team salary into luxury tax) then dealt, won't they avoid luxury tax? They could always trade Kleiza to a team with cap space, along with enough cash to pay his 2nd half salary (approx. $2.3M), if an actual positive trade doesn't come to fruition. I'd rather maintain the trade asset whenever possible.



    By my calculation, the following players are under contract for 2013-14, as of today:
    1. Valanciunas
    2. Gray
    3. Camby
    4. Johnson
    5. Novak
    6. Acy
    7. Gay
    8. Fields
    9. Kleiza
    10. Richardson
    11. DeRozan
    12. Ross
    13. Lowry (non-guaranteed)

    That leaves the Raptors with 2 roster spots
    - only 1 PG on the roster
    - only 1 true PF on the roster
    The day of the last regular season game.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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