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Bosh, Duncan, what's the diff?

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  • Bosh, Duncan, what's the diff?

    What do I have against Chris Bosh? Nothing, really. If I'm being honest, I regurgitated a few basketball truisms and dismissed Bosh out of hand. "You can't win with a jump-shooting power forward...he's not the best player on a good team...blahblahblah." But then I thought I'd actually try thinking about it, try to put Bosh in context and decide then if what I lazily thought was true.

    Firstly, is there a modern player with a game similar to CB4's? The closest I could come up with (other than David West. Zing!) is Tim Duncan. Big, true power forwards often miscast as centers. Good touch around the basket but can make a jump shot too. So I thought why not see how Bosh and Duncan stack up?
    If we discount the first two years of Bosh's career, he is on a very similar path to Tim Duncan
    There biggest change in either chart is Bosh in 2010. He finally gets up almost 10 shots per game inside 10 feet. Looking at Duncan's, chart we see that's a baseline for The Big Fundamental. Inside 10 feet, Bosh is more likely to get fouled (career high in free throws attempts!) and take higher percentage shots (career high true shooting percentage!) There's no way this is a coincidence. Bosh shaved nearly two outside jumpers a night off his total, his new total of 3 more along Timmy D's lines.
    Using the top nine rotation guys (by minutes played) of each team, we see the teams surrounding Bosh and young Duncan are nearly identical. One key, key difference: Duncan had one teammate (David Robinson) with a PER over 20 during each of those four years. Bosh had two teammates with PERs over 20: T.Jose Calderford in the same season, a year in which Ford played only 50 games while Jason Kapono and Andrea Bargnani played 80 each and put up PERs under 11.

    So CB4 and Time Duncan aren't that different, it's the team around them. If teams built around Duncan can multiple titles, why not a team built around Bosh? They should at least be able to make a deep run in the playoffs.
    Sun Times

    He makes some really good points. What do you think? Is Bosh approaching Tim Duncan's prime level of play? Can Bosh be the focal point to a championship team?

  • #2
    Nice article, maybe bosh is on to something when he said he should be built around. More reason for him to stay in raptorland.

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    • #3
      Prime TD blocked 3 shots per game and was an All-World defender. If Bosh had something near Dwight Howard's D this could be a fair comparison.

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      • #4
        They are very similar in Offensive talent and demeanor, but defensively not even close, but I still think Bosh is someone you could build a championship winning team around.

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        • #5
          Maybe Bosh's defense would look a lot better if he had the likes of David Robinson and Bruce Bowen helping out?

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          • #6
            Strongly agree with you. To sum it up, the difference is that Tim Duncan is the greatest power forward of all time. But like you said, I do think Bosh is good enough to built a championship winning team around.
            http://facebook.com/DiseaseMusic

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            • #7
              Tim Duncan used his height and length to become an intimidating defensive presence. Bosh still needs to develop that.

              Duncan also had a much more solid offensive post-game, as opposed to Bosh's face-up game. The problem with Bosh not having (much of) a post-game is that he's more easily shut down. Generally post moves are "bread and butter" and go in at a higher clip rate. You can't always rely on breaking your man off the dribble, and that's Bosh's major weakness against teams with smart post defenders.

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              • #8
                Apollo wrote: View Post
                Maybe Bosh's defense would look a lot better if he had the likes of David Robinson and Bruce Bowen helping out?

                Team defense might, though Robinson was not a top defender like Bowen at his peak. Boshes individual D would look about the same. Bosh is not going to look like a dominant post defender on any NBA team.
                Last edited by NewRapCity; Tue Feb 16, 2010, 10:04 PM.

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                • #9
                  NewRapCity wrote: View Post
                  a top defender like Bowen at his peak. .
                  There's a difference between playing good D and playing dirty.

                  Guess which side Bowen's on?

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                  • #10
                    NewRapCity wrote: View Post
                    Team defense might, though Robinson was not a top defender like Bowen at his peak. Boshes individual D would look about the same. Bosh is not going to look like a dominant post defender on any NBA team.
                    Robinson was always an excellent defender, had a quadruple-double(with blocks) for cryin' out loud!

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                    • #11
                      Mack North wrote: View Post
                      Robinson was always an excellent defender, had a quadruple-double(with blocks) for cryin' out loud!
                      Charley Rosen's take on Robinson:

                      David Robinson
                      This guy was a cream puff. He could come from the weak-side to block shots, but he couldn't guard his own man. He could rebound, but rarely in a crowd. He could score, but only on foul-line jumpers, or only if a defender bought a head fake after he drove his left hand into the middle. He couldn't pass or handle. He couldn't stand his ground in the paint. And, according to one of his ex-coaches, he never worked on his game in the off-season simply because he really didn't like playing basketball. Had he not played alongside of Tim Duncan, The Admiral would have been lost at sea.

                      source

                      Rosen can be harsh but he knows more about basketball than you and I together.

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                      • #12
                        prime wrote: View Post
                        there's a difference between playing good d and playing dirty.

                        Guess which side bowen's on?
                        lol
                        http://facebook.com/DiseaseMusic

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                        • #13
                          NewRapCity wrote: View Post
                          Charley Rosen's take on Robinson:

                          David Robinson
                          This guy was a cream puff. He could come from the weak-side to block shots, but he couldn't guard his own man. He could rebound, but rarely in a crowd. He could score, but only on foul-line jumpers, or only if a defender bought a head fake after he drove his left hand into the middle. He couldn't pass or handle. He couldn't stand his ground in the paint. And, according to one of his ex-coaches, he never worked on his game in the off-season simply because he really didn't like playing basketball. Had he not played alongside of Tim Duncan, The Admiral would have been lost at sea.

                          source

                          Rosen can be harsh but he knows more about basketball than you and I together.
                          You're taking Charlie Rosen's opinion as fact? Charlie Rosen's brain is a cream puff.

                          Prime wrote: View Post
                          There's a difference between playing good D and playing dirty.

                          Guess which side Bowen's on?
                          I'll take A or B, who's got the jewelry?

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                          • #14
                            NewRapCity wrote: View Post
                            Charley Rosen's take on Robinson:

                            David Robinson
                            This guy was a cream puff. He could come from the weak-side to block shots, but he couldn't guard his own man. He could rebound, but rarely in a crowd. He could score, but only on foul-line jumpers, or only if a defender bought a head fake after he drove his left hand into the middle. He couldn't pass or handle. He couldn't stand his ground in the paint. And, according to one of his ex-coaches, he never worked on his game in the off-season simply because he really didn't like playing basketball. Had he not played alongside of Tim Duncan, The Admiral would have been lost at sea.

                            source

                            Rosen can be harsh but he knows more about basketball than you and I together.
                            I really don't give a flying fuck what Charlie Rosen says, I watched him play and he was great. Basically this guy is saying that without Duncan, Robinson would have been nothing?? LMAO, FYI:
                            NBA All-Defense First Team - '91,'92,'95,'96
                            NBA All-Defense Second Team - '90,'93,'94,'98
                            NBA DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR - '92
                            NBA MVP - '95

                            Don't listen to Charlie Rosen anymore...

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                            • #15
                              I'll take A or B, who's published 15 books about basketball?

                              Because there is a difference between publishing books and posting in a forum. You could try linking to a scouting report which shows Robinson was something more on D than a shotblocker.

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