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Thread: Some more evidence that Colangelo was an incompetent idiot

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    Default Some more evidence that Colangelo was an incompetent idiot

    So, John Lucas was given a two year deal, with a team option on the second year. I didn't know this until I read that the Raptors declined to pick up his team option or I'd have been complaining about it sooner, but let me take a second to explain why basically nobody in the league gives out team options anymore, and why it's just a stupid thing to do.

    The rules with team options are as follows:

    - The choice of whether to exercise the option or not must be made before June 30th in the year preceding.
    - A player may not be traded between the end of the season and June 30th if he has the possibility of being a free agent that summer; thus, a player with an option year or an ETO (regardless of whether it's a player or team option) must have the option picked up before any trade can take place.

    Unguaranteed contracts are much, much better for the team, and have no disadvantage for the player:

    - The guarantee date can be set to whatever the parties can agree on. It can be June 30th, so it works just like a team option for the player, but much better for the team (see below). It can be sometime in the summer, to give the team a little time to look at free agency/trade options before having to make a decision, but still leaving the player time to sign with another team. It can even be during the following season, or come in stages.
    - A player with an unguaranteed contract has no restrictions on being traded. If a team wants to clear cap space, they can trade a player with a $5 mil guaranteed contract for a player with a $5 mil unguaranteed contract and immediately waive the unguaranteed player. This makes players with unguaranteed contracts a very valuable trade asset.

    So, in conclusion: there was absolutely no discernable reason to sign JL3 to a contract with a team option instead of just making the second year unguaranteed. It deprived the Raptors of a potentially valuable trade asset for absolutely no reason.

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    the player and his agent have a say in the contract, ya think?

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    Raptors Republic Superstar isaacthompson's Avatar
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    John Lucas was nowhere near a "potentially valuable trade asset".


    EDIT: whoops...
    Last edited by isaacthompson; Tue Jul 2nd, 2013 at 04:59 PM.
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    Quote p00ka wrote: View Post
    the player and his agent have a say in the contract, ya think?
    Good lord, did you even read? A team option and an unguaranteed contract with a guarantee date of June 30th are exactly the same from the player's perspective.

    Quote isaacthompson wrote: View Post
    John Lucas was nowhere near a "potentially valuable trade asset".
    Good lord, did you even read? It doesn't matter who the player is. It's the $1.3 million completely unguaranteed contract that is the asset, not the player.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
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    I really could not give less of a fuck...
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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote tkfu wrote: View Post
    Good lord, did you even read? A team option and an unguaranteed contract with a guarantee date of June 30th are exactly the same from the player's perspective.



    Good lord, did you even read? It doesn't matter who the player is. It's the $1.3 million completely unguaranteed contract that is the asset, not the player.
    Before you get too snarky with everybody who posts a response to your initial message, perhaps you should stop and give their feedback some thought.

    If I was a player, I'd much rather have a clean date when a team is forced to make a decision, thereby clarifying my future. I have no desire to mess around with some haphazard staggered nonguaranteed contract, since that means I might not become a free agent until most roster spots are already taken by players already free agents as of the standard July 1st date. I could care less what the team prefers, especially since it's my future we're talking about if they let me walk. I definitely think some players/agents would prefer contracts with traditional options that align well to league free agency processes.

    As for the comment about Lucas being a trade asset, evaulation is entirely subjective. Again, it goes back to the first point, regardless of which alternative might provide a team with a wider range of asset managmenet options.

    BC can only handout contracts that players/agents agree to sign, so it's a little unfair to blame him, especially for something as insignificant as a 30 year-old, 3rd string player's $1.5M option year.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Wow, we're really digging deep and going the extra mile with our hate on.

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    "basically nobody in the league gives out team options anymore, and why it's just a stupid thing to do."

    I'm not the expert on NBA contracts you are, but only 19/30 teams currently have them, outside of rookie scale deals

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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Wow, we're really digging deep and going the extra mile with our hate on.
    With Barg gone, the hate is running out of fuel

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Time to shift attention to DeRozan and Ross I guess. Maybe they can re-sign Hoffa?

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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    Time to shift attention to DeRozan and Ross I guess. Maybe they can re-sign Hoffa?
    With Camby back on board, I was wondering if Toronto might help Dallas clear additional cap space by trading for Carter, so we can have a Raptors old-timers reunion... what a wonderful PR/nostalgia move to disguise tanking! ooohhhh and our RE-branding can include purple jerseys and cartoon dinosaurs! SWEET!

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    A team option is always beneficial to the team and a player option to the player. GM's hand out team options so they are able to keep the player(if he's had a good year) instead of having to vie with other teams in free agency. A GM is more concerned about that than including his contract in the event of a trade.
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    Quote CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    Before you get too snarky with everybody who posts a response to your initial message, perhaps you should stop and give their feedback some thought.

    If I was a player, I'd much rather have a clean date when a team is forced to make a decision, thereby clarifying my future. I have no desire to mess around with some haphazard staggered nonguaranteed contract, since that means I might not become a free agent until most roster spots are already taken by players already free agents as of the standard July 1st date.
    Okay, there's some serious trouble with reading comprehension here. A non-guaranteed contract with a guarantee date of June 30th is, once again, exactly the same thing. In that case, June 30th is a "clean date when a team is forced to make a decision". The player knows, by midnight on June 30th, whether they will be paid for the next year. If they're waived after that, they still get the full amount of money. That's exactly the same thing that happens with a team option. In both cases, the player doesn't know until July 1 whether they have a contract for the next season, but they know with certainty on July 1, one way or the other.

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    Quote p00ka wrote: View Post
    I'm not the expert on NBA contracts you are, but only 19/30 teams currently have them, outside of rookie scale deals
    Clearly. The only team options, outside of rookie-scale deals, currently in the league are:

    Francisco Garcia
    Dante Cunningham
    Jodie Meeks
    Mario Chalmers

    Where are the other 15 you're claiming?

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    Quote tkfu wrote: View Post
    So, John Lucas was given a two year deal, with a team option on the second year. I didn't know this until I read that the Raptors declined to pick up his team option or I'd have been complaining about it sooner, but let me take a second to explain why basically nobody in the league gives out team options anymore, and why it's just a stupid thing to do.

    The rules with team options are as follows:

    - The choice of whether to exercise the option or not must be made before June 30th in the year preceding.
    - A player may not be traded between the end of the season and June 30th if he has the possibility of being a free agent that summer; thus, a player with an option year or an ETO (regardless of whether it's a player or team option) must have the option picked up before any trade can take place.

    Unguaranteed contracts are much, much better for the team, and have no disadvantage for the player:

    - The guarantee date can be set to whatever the parties can agree on. It can be June 30th, so it works just like a team option for the player, but much better for the team (see below). It can be sometime in the summer, to give the team a little time to look at free agency/trade options before having to make a decision, but still leaving the player time to sign with another team. It can even be during the following season, or come in stages.
    - A player with an unguaranteed contract has no restrictions on being traded. If a team wants to clear cap space, they can trade a player with a $5 mil guaranteed contract for a player with a $5 mil unguaranteed contract and immediately waive the unguaranteed player. This makes players with unguaranteed contracts a very valuable trade asset.

    So, in conclusion: there was absolutely no discernable reason to sign JL3 to a contract with a team option instead of just making the second year unguaranteed. It deprived the Raptors of a potentially valuable trade asset for absolutely no reason.
    The Jemain O'Neil for Hibbert trade was far more glaring than this... but yeah we all have great distain for what he did on that Bargniani 7 year hell ride.
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    Quote tkfu wrote: View Post
    Okay, there's some serious trouble with reading comprehension here. A non-guaranteed contract with a guarantee date of June 30th is, once again, exactly the same thing. In that case, June 30th is a "clean date when a team is forced to make a decision". The player knows, by midnight on June 30th, whether they will be paid for the next year. If they're waived after that, they still get the full amount of money. That's exactly the same thing that happens with a team option. In both cases, the player doesn't know until July 1 whether they have a contract for the next season, but they know with certainty on July 1, one way or the other.
    But for a player, having that team option would be a pseudo no-trade clause. If I were a 30 year old free agent, I'd want a bit more stability for my family, so if I insisted on an option instead of a non-guaranteed deal, I know that I'm not getting moved early without the extra guaranteed money. With a non-guaranteed deal, as a player, I could get moved and waived and be unemployed. For a player there is definitely incentive to have the option route built into the contract over the non-guaranteed route.

    And before you start, my reading comprehension is quite high. Don't get tunnel-vision with your views, that's the BC way.

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    Quote tkfu wrote: View Post
    Clearly. The only team options, outside of rookie-scale deals, currently in the league are:

    Francisco Garcia
    Dante Cunningham
    Jodie Meeks
    Mario Chalmers

    Where are the other 15 you're claiming?
    I'm assuming you got the information from the 2013-2014 FA list. I'm pretty sure there are other team options in the future. I can say off the top of my head that Amir and Varejao have team options for next year.

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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    If I were a 30 year old free agent, I'd want a bit more stability for my family, so if I insisted on an option instead of a non-guaranteed deal
    A free agent normally insists on a 'player option'. Only then would his option year be guaranteed/secured. If he insists on a 'team option', it would do him no good at all. Maybe the team but not him.

    TKFU is making a good point only Colangelo may not be as idiotic as he claims. IMO.
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    Quote Eric Akshinthala wrote: View Post
    A free agent normally insists on a 'player option'. Only then would his option year be guaranteed/secured. If he insists on a 'team option', it would do him no good at all. Maybe the team but not him.

    TKFU is making a good point only Colangelo may not be as idiotic as he claims. IMO.
    From a players point of view:
    Player option > Team Option > Non-Guaranteed 2nd year

    From a teams point of view:
    Non-Guaranteed 2nd year > Team Option > Player Option

    When a contract is negotiated, both sides come to a mutual agreement. It isn't rocket surgery to see what option would be the most mutually agreeable.

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    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    From a teams point of view:
    Non-Guaranteed 2nd year > Team Option > Player Option
    Not always.
    Attitude Is A Choice.

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