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Thread: Pistons interested in Rudy Gay

  1. #281
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    Quote magoon wrote: View Post
    Detroit trading Drummond would be like us trading Val: it's not going to happen except in a scenario where the team gets superstar talent in return. Drummond and Val are both potential franchise centers. And they're not going to trade Smith either unless he gets pissy and demands a trade, which he won't do in his first year because that would be insane.

    Monroe, Knight and KCP are their serious trade chips, and Detroit isn't going to give up any of them cheaply. I can certainly see them engineering a trade with Houston (Lin and Asik for Monroe and Knight) or even us (Rudy for Monroe and crap), but they're not going to give away the farm.
    If we dealt Gay to Detroit I think it'd have to be a 3 team deal. They can't trade their pick next year and Monroe is a lot more of a C than a PF. With JV holding down the majority of the C minutes for the foreseeable future it doesn't make sense to trade for Monroe.

  2. #282
    Raptors Republic Veteran Bendit's Avatar
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    Er..excuse me. I like Drummond too but when he can drop FTs like JV I shall take more notice. At this time he is pretty horrible at the line and most big Cs tend to be (Shaq, DH). They are pretty susceptible at being hacked if they get the ball in a end-of-game-make-yr-ft-strategy game. He has to be a complimentary player at the end of the game while JV is shaping up to be the prime option at that time. Drummond also has to improve his off. game beyond dunks from under the rim.

  3. #283
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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    Er..excuse me. I like Drummond too but when he can drop FTs like JV I shall take more notice. At this time he is pretty horrible at the line and most big Cs tend to be (Shaq, DH). They are pretty susceptible at being hacked if they get the ball in a end-of-game-make-yr-ft-strategy game. He has to be a complimentary player at the end of the game while JV is shaping up to be the prime option at that time. Drummond also has to improve his off. game beyond dunks from under the rim.
    I completely agree that Drummond has to improve his offensive game, but Jonas has to improve his defensive game. Jonas is the smarter player and the quicker learner, but Drummond is a far more ridiculously amazing athletic specimen.

    Seriously, in five years the two of them are going to be the most dominant centres in the NBA. If Jonas is better than Drummond (and I think he is, but only very barely), it is splitting hairs.

  4. #284
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    Quote magoon wrote: View Post
    I completely agree that Drummond has to improve his offensive game, but Jonas has to improve his defensive game. Jonas is the smarter player and the quicker learner, but Drummond is a far more ridiculously amazing athletic specimen.

    Seriously, in five years the two of them are going to be the most dominant centres in the NBA. If Jonas is better than Drummond (and I think he is, but only very barely), it is splitting hairs.
    I think it's a little early to be claiming they will be the most dominant centres in five years. Let's just see how they do this year.
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    Raptors Republic Veteran Bendit's Avatar
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    Quote magoon wrote: View Post
    I completely agree that Drummond has to improve his offensive game, but Jonas has to improve his defensive game. Jonas is the smarter player and the quicker learner, but Drummond is a far more ridiculously amazing athletic specimen.

    Seriously, in five years the two of them are going to be the most dominant centres in the NBA. If Jonas is better than Drummond (and I think he is, but only very barely), it is splitting hairs.
    Lets just say I wish we picked Drummond over Ross

  6. #286
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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    Lets just say I wish we picked Drummond over Ross
    How about Paul George over Demar Derozan?

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    Quote stretch wrote: View Post
    How about Paul George over Demar Derozan?
    Wrong draft. The George year we drafted 3 picks after and took Special Ed

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    Quote stretch wrote: View Post
    How about Paul George over Demar Derozan?
    George was in the 2010 draft. I think we actually wanted him, but he was picked a few spots earlier than Ed

    The only player picked after DD in 2009 that you can say is outright better is Jrue Holiday

  9. #289
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    George was in the 2010 draft. I think we actually wanted him, but he was picked a few spots earlier than Ed

    The only player picked after DD in 2009 that you can say is outright better is Jrue Holiday
    Ty Lawson maybe?

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    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    George was in the 2010 draft. I think we actually wanted him, but he was picked a few spots earlier than Ed

    The only player picked after DD in 2009 that you can say is outright better is Jrue Holiday
    you could argue ty lawson, taj gibson and gerald henderson.

    well, they are better, but i don't really feel like arguing about it.
    @jerboat

  11. #291
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Point is i guess Demar wasn't a bad pick by any means. I know i personally wanted Jrue but whatever. Team needed a wing scorer just as much if not more too.
    @jerboat

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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    Ty Lawson maybe?
    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    you could argue ty lawson, taj gibson and gerald henderson.

    well, they are better, but i don't really feel like arguing about it.
    Both of you need to learn how to read. I said "outright" better. All of the guys you mentioned are debatable and thus do not fall under the same category as Jrue.

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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    Point is i guess Demar wasn't a bad pick by any means. I know i personally wanted Jrue but whatever. Team needed a wing scorer just as much if not more too.
    It's not even close to just as much, it's FAR MORE.

    People like you love to be revisionists and act like they knew how things would play out 5+ years ago, but the fact is Jose was considered one of the best PGs in the league (top 10) by Raptors fans that year.

    You can bullshit as much as you want about saying you wanted Jrue at #9 when he was projected to go 20th (http://www.nbadraft.net/2009mock_draft) all you want, but that's just a crock of shit as far as I'm concerned. The guys we were looking at were DeRozan, Henderson, T-Will and possibly Curry if he fell further.

    Jose put up 13-9-3 on 50-41-98 shooting the previous year as a 27 year old PG. Neither fans nor the organization were looking for a PG.

  14. #294
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    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    Both of you need to learn how to read. I said "outright" better. All of the guys you mentioned are debatable and thus do not fall under the same category as Jrue.
    I don't think it's debatable that Lawson is better than DeMar. Better PER, better WS/48, better shooter (except last year when his three-point shot wasn't falling, but even then he was overall a better shooter), comparable defender, better floor sense.

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    Quote magoon wrote: View Post
    I don't think it's debatable that Lawson is better than DeMar. Better PER, better WS/48, better shooter (except last year when his three-point shot wasn't falling, but even then he was overall a better shooter), comparable defender, better floor sense.
    A point guard's PER is going to be better than a shooting guard's simply because of assists in most cases.

    Among PGs that played 30+mpg Lawson's PER ranked 12th
    Among SGs that played 30+mpg DeRozan's PER ranked 11th

    PER is generally useless in this case. You can use it to compare two PGs, or two wings (SG or SF) or two bigs (PF or C), but other than that it makes no sense.

    Aside from that you just listed a bunch of random stuff. Lawson is a better 3PT shooter, but DeRozan is better at a higher volume from mid-range, while both players are about equal around the basket (with DeRozan having more makes in the paint while also attempting and making more FTs).

    Like you said defense is a wash, although I'll take DeMar because he can guard 2 positions at a mediocre level while Lawson can only guard 1 at a mediocre level. Kinda silly to compare a PGs playmaking to a SGs also.

    As you can see it is debatable which is why I said he's not outright better. Lawson also has the benefit of playing on a superior team.
    Last edited by Xixak; Tue Jul 23rd, 2013 at 12:56 PM.

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  17. #296
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    PER is always useless outside of the superstar players.

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    And anyway my comments were in reference to the earlier conversation where a poster said:

    Lets just say I wish we picked Drummond over Ross
    Then it turned into a discussion about DeMar being picked over better players. Except it's not comparable because Drummond is a potential franchise big while Ross at best will be a solid role player. Whereas DeMar was only picked over potential fringe all-stars/solid-starters like himself.

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    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    PER is always useless outside of the superstar players.
    You mean PER doesn't tell us Brandan Wright is better than Dirk, Aldridge, Cousins, Bosh, Horford, Marc Gasol, etc.? Go figure.

    But, but, WS/48 is good to tell us Splitter is better than Duncan, Griffin, Westbrook, Wade, Curry, West, Bosh, etc.,,, right?

    Ugh, stats are WAY over-relied upon to judge players.

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  21. #299
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    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    It's not even close to just as much, it's FAR MORE.

    People like you love to be revisionists and act like they knew how things would play out 5+ years ago, but the fact is Jose was considered one of the best PGs in the league (top 10) by Raptors fans that year.

    You can bullshit as much as you want about saying you wanted Jrue at #9 when he was projected to go 20th (http://www.nbadraft.net/2009mock_draft) all you want, but that's just a crock of shit as far as I'm concerned. The guys we were looking at were DeRozan, Henderson, T-Will and possibly Curry if he fell further.

    Jose put up 13-9-3 on 50-41-98 shooting the previous year as a 27 year old PG. Neither fans nor the organization were looking for a PG.
    i'm not going to bother arguing who i wanted at the time since you apparently read minds? but Jrue and Lawson for that matter weren't projected to go where they landed, they slid. nbadraft.net isn't really the best site for anything draft related unless you need to be reminded of someones name or something.

    and i'm not saying i knew then that jrue would be a better player than demar, just that i wanted him. while i've always certainly been a calderon fan, i think i speak for most that we could've used an upgrade at the position for a long time. not to mention at the time taking a swingman who needed a TON of polish and couldn't shoot was a poor pick since we were trying to put a winner around bosh.

    you Derozen truthers are the worst. i hope he gets traded and you all follow him to whichever forum his team has.
    @jerboat

  22. #300
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    and for the record, i like demar.
    @jerboat

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