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Thread: Pistons interested in Rudy Gay

  1. #81
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    if I'm Masai the ultimate coup would be finding a way to build into the playoffs while getting another teams picks to get us into the top 5 in the 2014 draft. So I would say that in order to secure Rudy Gay, I'd want a starting calibre player, an expiring, and an assortment of picks.
    Last edited by thead; Wed Jul 3rd, 2013 at 10:02 AM.

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  3. #82
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote thead wrote: View Post
    if I'm Masai the ultimate coup would be finding a way to build into the playoffs while getting another teams picks to get us into the top 5 in the 2014 draft. So I would say that in order to secure Rudy Gay, I'd want a starting calibre player, an expiring, and an assortment of picks.
    Very much similar to what I posted in another thread:

    I'd like to see a team assembled with a lot of flexibility and potential that can also compete now.

    Call me greedy.

    Quality pieces and quality systems (off and def) can get you a 7th or 8th seed especially when next year the Raps will have 8 games versus teams visibly tanking.



    Considering that:

    1) Colangelo never built a cohesive team but rather a collection of individuals designed to fix the flaws of one another,
    2) Casey struggled to do what he wanted to do due to interference from above,
    3) Raptors were 10-16 before finishing year on 7-2 run with Gay,

    ....is it insane to think that the Raptors might be able to trade away 'desirable' pieces (like Gay, DD, and Lowry) and in return:

    1) get first multiple first round picks,
    2) flexibility to pursue high value contracts (like Dunleavey to Bulls for $3M per year, as an example)

    ....allowing the Raptors to compete this up coming season AND get draft benefits as well?



    Essentially what I am proposing is a MoneyBall meets "Denver-experience-after-Melo-drama".


    Nah, maybe don't call me greedy but rather insane.
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  5. #83
    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    I still feel that DeRozan should go first than Gay. Can you imagine if Gay really deals with his vision issues (there was a report that he had some form of corrective procedure done to his eye). The redundancy moving forward will have to be dealt with. With Gay in the fold, I just can't see DD improving much compared to last year. I'm afraid that if he regresses, we're stuck with him. Gay only has 2 years left anyway. I'd prefer to hold on to him rather than the younger DD.
    ďThe saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.Ē - Martin Luther King

  6. #84
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    Cleveland is sick of being in the draft. Gay for Bennet(potential), Verajao(immediate help/expiring) and picks(future) is an example of something that would do well followed up by DeRozan and Gray to the Bucks for Ilyasova and picks

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  8. #85
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote thead wrote: View Post
    Cleveland is sick of being in the draft. Gay for Bennet(potential), Verajao(immediate help/expiring) and picks(future) is an example of something that would do well followed up by DeRozan and Gray to the Bucks for Ilyasova and picks
    This is kind of weird...only because all the guys coming back are natural PFs....Maybe mix in a wing somewhere?

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    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
    I still feel that DeRozan should go first than Gay. Can you imagine if Gay really deals with his vision issues (there was a report that he had some form of corrective procedure done to his eye). The redundancy moving forward will have to be dealt with. With Gay in the fold, I just can't see DD improving much compared to last year. I'm afraid that if he regresses, we're stuck with him. Gay only has 2 years left anyway. I'd prefer to hold on to him rather than the younger DD.
    I'd have no problem trading BOTH.

    In fact part of me hopes it happens.

    Both players are vastly overpaid and limited.

    They are from an era where individual pieces were valued and collected rather than building a team.



    The Pistons and Bucks are two teams I'd keep an eye on. Both are in no position to lose (Pistons because they have been losing forever and have 2014 pick heading out; Bucks trying to build a new arena with public money and with owner concerned about profits first and foremost).
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  10. #87
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    This is kind of weird...only because all the guys coming back are natural PFs....Maybe mix in a wing somewhere?
    Ersan is a 3/4
    Bennet is a 3/4
    Verajao is a 4/5

    they are all versatile enough that you could make it work. besides this was more of an example of how you tank (have other teams do it for you) and build at the exact same time.

  11. #88
    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Quote thead wrote: View Post
    Ersan is a 3/4
    Bennet is a 3/4
    Verajao is a 4/5

    they are all versatile enough that you could make it work. besides this was more of an example of how you tank (have other teams do it for you) and build at the exact same time.
    Plus Ersan and Bennett can both hit the 3, something none of our current 3/4's can do except for the Albino Assassin Steve Novak of course.

  12. #89
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    Quote thead wrote: View Post
    Ersan is a 3/4
    Bennet is a 3/4
    Verajao is a 4/5

    they are all versatile enough that you could make it work. besides this was more of an example of how you tank (have other teams do it for you) and build at the exact same time.
    I'm worried about D more than offensive versatility. Can any of these guys guard a SF full time? My instinct tells me no. I'm just saying. Going after all three of those specific guys is a bit odd.

  13. #90
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    Basically I would pick one of Bennett or Ersan to go after....probably never both.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Guys forget the Wiggins we have got 1/15 chance to get him. Why to bother? Why to set yourselves for another total dissapointment. Let's talk about playofffs not about another year of pointless "tanking" (7-11). I'm surprised you are not tired of this eternal tanking. Let's leave that for Bobcats..
    #FREE

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    This pitch from Detroit was so goddam insulting *** also let me add Raptors having lots of financial flexibilty means nothing until we string together playoff years and show players in the league that Toronto is irrelevant..... financial flexibility and CAP means nothing to a losing team.

    Ujiri isn't a tanking devotees GM, he builds teams.
    Last edited by Rapstor4Life; Wed Jul 3rd, 2013 at 10:34 AM.

  16. #93
    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Quote RandomGuy wrote: View Post
    Guys forget the Wiggins we have got 1/15 chance to get him. Why to bother? Why to set yourselves for another total dissapointment. Let's talk about playofffs not about another year of pointless "tanking" (7-11). I'm surprised you are not tired of this eternal tanking. Let's leave that for Bobcats..
    Wiggins isn't the only savior in this draft. Lots of players at the top, Jabari Parker, Julius Randle, or Marcus Smart all would be difference makers. This draft isn't just talented, it's deep.

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  18. #94
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    I was indeed being sarcastic when I proposed that Rudy deal with Charlotte.

    That having been said: BC met the price Memphis set for Rudy, which was: two good players (one large expiring contract, one young), a second-rounder and cash. That price was predicated on the idea that Memphis without Rudy was worse and Toronto with Rudy was a playoff threat. Guess what happened? Memphis got better without Rudy and Toronto basically stayed the same. Rudy's value has gone down, so expecting to get same return on Rudy's contract if we trade him is a bit naive.

    In seriousness, I would do the trade for Stuckey, KCP, and Detroit's lottery pick in 2014 or a first-rounder in 2016 if Charlotte snags the 2014 pick instead. Stuckey is good enough to be a third-string PG, at least, and he's a decent expiring contract ($8.5 million), KCP is a future answer at shooting guard which frees up DeMar for a potential trade, and the pick is the rest of the compensation. I'd say that's less value then went out for Rudy, but still significant.

  19. #95
    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    This pitch from Detroit was so goddam insulting *** also let me add Raptors having lots of financial flexibilty means nothing until we string together playoff years and show players in the league that Toronto is irrelevant..... financial flexibility and CAP means nothing to a losing team.

    Ujiri isn't a tanking devotees GM, he builds teams.
    Flexibility gives us the chance to be more active in trades and the ability to pounce when a guy is available. Being flexible isn't the same as having cap room, it means having lots of well priced assets that can be moved easily. The problem for the Raps to trade anyone is the salaries on this bloated roster. Gay, DeRozan, & Fields (formerly Bargnani) are harder to deal because of their price tag. If any one of those guys was half the price, the Raps would have plenty of offers and could bring in real assets for the future.

  20. #96
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    Rudy Gay will be much more valuable if he has his break out season this year and Masai can Melo the shit out of him next year.

  21. #97
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    Quote thead wrote: View Post
    Rudy Gay will be much more valuable if he has his break out season this year and Masai can Melo the shit out of him next year.
    I know when I look for a breakout season, I turn to a 27-year old player entering his eighth season. That's when breakouts happen.

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  23. #98
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    I am so torn as to what direction I want MU to go.

    On one hand, retooling to make a legit run at the 2nd round of the playoffs while also keeping an eye on the future, makes a lot of sense. With successfull tanking being such an uncertainty (many tankers, near impossible to trade for 2014 1st round picks, draft lottery luck, etc...), I'm still not ready to fully commit to it.

    On the other hand, I'd have no issue tearing down the entire roster and trading everybody not named Valanciunas. I wouldn't want to see the top assets (ie: Gay, DeRozan, Lowry, Ross) traded just for expiring contracts and draft picks though (even 2014 picks). I'd definitely want to see good young talent coming back in trade as well, in addition to the expiring contracts and draft picks. In this case, I'd want to see the team built with success starting in 2-3 seasons being the plan, which gets faithfully adhered to throughout the next 2-3 seasons.

    The Bargnani move was as much about 'addition by subraction' and didn't really give away MU's intentions. The next move(s) should definitely give us a much better indication of which direction this team is going.

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  25. #99
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote magoon wrote: View Post
    I was indeed being sarcastic when I proposed that Rudy deal with Charlotte.

    That having been said: BC met the price Memphis set for Rudy, which was: two good players (one large expiring contract, one young), a second-rounder and cash. That price was predicated on the idea that Memphis without Rudy was worse and Toronto with Rudy was a playoff threat. Guess what happened? Memphis got better without Rudy and Toronto basically stayed the same. Rudy's value has gone down, so expecting to get same return on Rudy's contract if we trade him is a bit naive.

    In seriousness, I would do the trade for Stuckey, KCP, and Detroit's lottery pick in 2014 or a first-rounder in 2016 if Charlotte snags the 2014 pick instead. Stuckey is good enough to be a third-string PG, at least, and he's a decent expiring contract ($8.5 million), KCP is a future answer at shooting guard which frees up DeMar for a potential trade, and the pick is the rest of the compensation. I'd say that's less value then went out for Rudy, but still significant.
    Memphis had additional criteria in trading Gay. There were numerous financial considerations limiting what they were willing to take back.
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  26. #100
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    First, can someone confirm if Rudy Gay's contract has the potential to save a luxury tax team something in the range of $40 million? If so isn't there huge value in holding onto him? Lakers, New Jersey, New York and soon Clippers will all be in the luxury tax won't they?

    Secondly, I don't know if Detroit really wants Rudy Gay or if they want his contract for when it expires. Remember when Miami took Jermaine Oneal's contract off our hands?

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