Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 94

Thread: Playoffs Next Year! Fool's Gold?

  1. #1
    Raptors Republic Rookie toebeesaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Vancouver, B.C
    Posts
    10
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default Playoffs Next Year! Fool's Gold?

    With the 7th(Boston), 8th(Milwaukee), & 9th seed(Philly) all tanking for next year, do you think making the playoffs next year is fool's gold? Given the Raps finished 10th it seems automatic.

    I'm a believer in not tanking because the draft is a lottery, but maybe those team are re-tooling for a brighter future in 2014-15 (Free agency class). Mind you the three teams I have mentioned have played in the playoffs and Boston has a ring. The Raps have neither. Are the Raps doing it right or are the bottom seeds doing it right?

  2. #2
    Raptors Republic Starter OzRapFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    The Gold Coast, Australia
    Posts
    353
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I think we should take advantage of the tankers and shoot for the playoffs and give the young guys some playoff experience or make Toronto more attractive to potential free agents, if it doesn't work Gays contract will be off the books soon and we can retool or reset then as long as the dont take on any contracts longer than 2 years.

  3. Like lilmamba_ liked this post
  4. #3
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,957
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I don't mind making the playoffs next year but i wouldn't look at it as being earned. If we aim for the playoffs next year and miss them and we didn't make whatever possible trades for our players we, hypothetically, could be making now, we are up shits creek. Boston is going to have money, young players and draft picks. They might be taking one year to maybe nab the big fish.

    If we stick with our guys are don't become contenders hiw long does jv stay? Do we hope wiggins strings his team along for 7 years with his eyes on coming home?

    I really think, along with lots of gms actually, that this is the year where the gold is at the bottom of the pile.

    Send Gay out, use some of that money on lowry. Get that high draft pick and with a lottle luck the stars align, right?

    Ramble, ramble. Happy for the playoffs, would be expected but don't think its the right course.

  5. #4
    Raptors Republic All-Star Letter N's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,452
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I hope we make the playoffs, because even if we don't (barring some sort of injury epidemic) we'll just end up with a less than 5% chance of getting the 1st pick. I'd rather say goodbye to that slim chance and have guys like Derozan, JV and Amir get to experience the playoffs, get a feel for winning and see how much tougher it is when the regular season ends.

  6. #5
    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Nova Scotia
    Posts
    2,863
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Making the playoffs this year should be attainable, but should it be the goal? I think if we make the playoffs as the 5th-8th seed, it accomplishes nothing except allow all the teams that tanked to surpass us quickly next season. But with so many teams seeming to look at the top of the lottery, tanking is a huge risk.

    I think MU needs to look at each piece of the roster, gauge their trade value, and then make a quick but firm decision; tank or push? If you want to push, then there are teams out there willing to sell off assets to tank. If you want to tank, then taking a deal like Detroit's expiring garbage for Gay will get you there. At the end of the day, whatever decision MU makes has to put us in a better position in the next 2-3 years. We need to be competitive and not carry so much bloated salary.

  7. #6
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    8,604
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    PLayoffs are never fool's gold, it's more about how you get there.

    I mean, if the Raps "tank" and trade Gay, DeMar and Lowry....but say JV explodes, and they still compete for the playoffs, possibly making it or just missing again....what does that mean then? I mean, JV will have proven himself as a franchise player (or close to it). And our chances at a good lottery pick are not much better than if we had kept all those guys.

    Anyway, just to say, as long as we don't follow the Colangelo model, as in "mortgage the future" to get into the playoffs (I guess it was the NYK model before BC came to Toronto, and now the Knicks can claim ownership again), I'm fine with whatever happens. Maintain draft assets....Sell high on non-keepers (trust Ujiri to sort that out)...Don't put the team in a compromising financial situation.

    I'm not a fan of tanking, and think this team could try to trade up in terms of talent, rather than down, and still be building properly, but either way, like I said, it's all about building the right way regardless. I suppose I'm skeptical about a tank-job because BC has been our GM for 7 years, and I have a hard time picturing the Raps making good trades and draft choices. I definitely have more faith in Ujiri, but still hard to take that leap.

  8. #7
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    2,239
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I feel like the bottom seeds are doing the right thing by tanking. You don't have to get the top pick in this years lottery to end up a winner. Plenty of good players in the draft this year. Only problem is that so many other teams are tanking this year as well that it makes things tough to get into the top 5 even.

    While I understand the rationale for trying to make the playoffs I don't agree with limping in and getting bounced in the first round. It's the same treadmill story. For this reason I feel like teams like Charlotte, Cleavland, Wizards etc.. that have been in the top 5 of the lotto the past few years are doing things the right way. "Get busy living or get busy dying", but don't waste your time in the middle.

  9. #8
    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Nova Scotia
    Posts
    2,863
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    I feel like the bottom seeds are doing the right thing by tanking. You don't have to get the top pick in this years lottery to end up a winner. Plenty of good players in the draft this year. Only problem is that so many other teams are tanking this year as well that it makes things tough to get into the top 5 even.

    While I understand the rationale for trying to make the playoffs I don't agree with limping in and getting bounced in the first round. It's the same treadmill story. For this reason I feel like teams like Charlotte, Cleavland, Wizards etc.. that have been in the top 5 of the lotto the past few years are doing things the right way. "Get busy living or get busy dying", but don't waste your time in the middle.
    I can't remember a season with this many teams looking to tank. Those games down the stretch are going to be scrutinized by the league to make sure that no shenanigans are being had. This could get silly.

  10. #9
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    6,340
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default


    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  11. Like Dino4life liked this post
  12. #10
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    20,241
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I'd like to see a team assembled with a lot of flexibility and potential that can also compete now.

    Call me greedy.

    Quality pieces and quality systems (off and def) can get you a 7th or 8th seed especially when next year the Raps will have 8 games versus teams visibly tanking.



    Considering that:

    1) Colangelo never built a cohesive team but rather a collection of individuals designed to fix the flaws of one another,
    2) Casey struggled to do what he wanted to do due to interference from above,
    3) Raptors were 10-16 before finishing year on 7-2 run with Gay,

    ....is it insane to think that the Raptors might be able to trade away 'desirable' pieces (like Gay, DD, and Lowry) and in return:

    1) get first multiple first round picks,
    2) flexibility to pursue high value contracts (like Dunleavey to Bulls for $3M per year, as an example)

    ....allowing the Raptors to compete this up coming season AND get draft benefits as well?



    Essentially what I am proposing is a MoneyBall meets "Denver-experience-after-Melo-drama".


    Nah, maybe don't call me greedy but rather insane.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

  13. #11
    Raptors Republic All-Star
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    1,129
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote toebeesaw wrote: View Post
    With the 7th(Boston), 8th(Milwaukee), & 9th seed(Philly) all tanking for next year, do you think making the playoffs next year is fool's gold? Given the Raps finished 10th it seems automatic.
    The problem is that Detroit, Cleveland and Washington aren't tanking, and all have gotten significantly better already, and all of them are teams we hardly dominated last year.

  14. #12
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    20,241
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote magoon wrote: View Post
    The problem is that Detroit, Cleveland and Washington aren't tanking, and all have gotten significantly better already, and all of them are teams we hardly dominated last year.
    Washington is a given for playoffs IMO. They ended the season how I thought it would go after okafor/ariza trade.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

  15. #13
    Raptors Republic Starter
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    220
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    PLayoffs are never fool's gold, it's more about how you get there.
    bullshit!

    how'd those spankings work out for philly? the bucks?

    philly even made THE PROMISED LAND (2nd round) and thought so highly of the experience they blew it the hell up. i think they made a good choice!

    bucks got destroyed and now face the decision of whether to go philly's route or resign ellis and jennings and possibly get shallacked in the first round for the next five years! yay?!

    how's being moderately good forever worked for atlanta?

    how does squeaking in next year move this team any further along? it moves us further back, as teams behind us get better.

  16. #14
    Raptors Republic Rookie feet85's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Scarborough,ON
    Posts
    182
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    1. Miami Heat
    2. Chicago Bulls
    3. Indiana Pacers
    4. Brooklyn Nets
    5. New York Knicks
    6. Toronto Raptors
    7. Washington Wizards
    8. Detroit Pistons

    Ladies and Gentlemen your 2013-14 Eastern Conference Playoffs
    #BringBackUzoh

  17. #15
    Raptors Republic Starter hotfuzz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Waterloo, ON
    Posts
    221
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote OzRapFan wrote: View Post
    I think we should take advantage of the tankers and shoot for the playoffs and give the young guys some playoff experience or make Toronto more attractive to potential free agents, if it doesn't work Gays contract will be off the books soon and we can retool or reset then as long as the dont take on any contracts longer than 2 years.
    I'm sorry, but that is a bunch of BS that I see thrown around so much. Making the 7th or 8th seed and getting kicked out in the first round won't make you more attractive to free agents. Just ask how that is working out for Bucks and Hawks.

    Free agents are attracted by either a rich history, or having a superstar or an upcoming star in your roster. The best way to attain that upcoming star? The draft. Just look at the Clippers. You think Paul would have agreed if they hadn't drafter Griffin? What about Heat signing LBJ? Do you think he would have if they didn't have Wade?

    If you look at the majority of the NBA finals MVP in the past 15 years, they were drafted by the team. If there's one unwritten rule in the NBA, it's that you can't win without a STAR! (or multiple ones)
    "Duh! Winning"
    - Charlie Sheen

  18. Like vino, Nilanka liked this post
  19. #16
    Raptors Republic All-Star Jclaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,770
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Axel wrote: View Post
    I can't remember a season with this many teams looking to tank. Those games down the stretch are going to be scrutinized by the league to make sure that no shenanigans are being had. This could get silly.



    It is going to be insane. Some epsn heads were saying the other day that if the Lakers don't get dwight, they let kobe take his time coming back from injury, they trade gasol and tank away. If the Lakers and Celtics are both tanking, I think we can tolerate the stench of doing it too. Playoffs made by not looking at the future are fool's gold as all those other teams are stocking up for a run we won't be ready for

  20. #17
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    6,340
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote hotfuzz wrote: View Post
    I'm sorry, but that is a bunch of BS that I see thrown around so much. Making the 7th or 8th seed and getting kicked out in the first round won't make you more attractive to free agents. Just ask how that is working out for Bucks and Hawks.

    Free agents are attracted by either a rich history, or having a superstar or an upcoming star in your roster. The best way to attain that upcoming star? The draft. Just look at the Clippers. You think Paul would have agreed if they hadn't drafter Griffin? What about Heat signing LBJ? Do you think he would have if they didn't have Wade?

    If you look at the majority of the NBA finals MVP in the past 15 years, they were drafted by the team. If there's one unwritten rule in the NBA, it's that you can't win without a STAR! (or multiple ones)
    Totally agree.

    If you want to see a competitive team next year, that's fine. Considering all the losing lately, that's a perfectly understandable point of view.

    But let's not pretend that the NBA's A-listers will look at a 42-win team and think to themselves, "I'm going to the tee-dot!". Not gonna happen.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  21. #18
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    3,553
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    What would be dreadful is the Raptors going full on tank mode, and getting the 8th pick in the draft.. then drafting a role player who's just decent off the bench.

  22. #19
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    4,503
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    What would be dreadful is the Raptors going full on tank mode, and getting the 8th pick in the draft.. then drafting a role player who's just decent off the bench.
    That's my biggest fear: epic tanking fail.

    With so many tankers, especially in the east, coupled with the luck required to win the draft lottery, finishing in the 8-14 spot (the tanking treadmill) is my biggest nightmare.

    There are bound to be some teams that completely alienate their fanbase when the tanking strategy backfires. Not to mention the GMs that will be on the extremely hot seat, when they fail to compete and fail to rebuild through the deep 2014 draft. 2014 is not the draft that you want to come away with the class 'bust'.

  23. #20
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    8,604
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote chris wrote: View Post
    bullshit!

    how'd those spankings work out for philly? the bucks?

    philly even made THE PROMISED LAND (2nd round) and thought so highly of the experience they blew it the hell up. i think they made a good choice!

    bucks got destroyed and now face the decision of whether to go philly's route or resign ellis and jennings and possibly get shallacked in the first round for the next five years! yay?!

    how's being moderately good forever worked for atlanta?

    how does squeaking in next year move this team any further along? it moves us further back, as teams behind us get better.
    First off, Philly did not build a team properly. If you read my post you'd notice that was the critical point. Milwaukee tries, but Milwaukee can't keep or attract top tier talent, so they're also a piss poor example.

    Playoffs are a reward for hard work during a season.

    By the indiscriminately tanking logic....If this team blew it up except for JV, and still made the playoffs...what then? Trade JV to have worse picks and rebuild again? Fucking ridiculous.

    At no point in my post did I mention anything about being moderately good forever.

    You'll notice my key point was regardless of playoffs, these following things must be constant, in which case I will have faith that the front office knows what they're doing better than legions of tank-hungry fans.
    ->Key issues:
    -Maintain draft assets....
    -Sell high on non-keepers (trust Ujiri to sort that out in terms of who to keep)
    -Don't put the team in a compromising financial situation

    If the team is doing all these things and still makes the playoffs despite, say, trading away players like Gay, DeMar, Lowry, how can you still be fucking upset? Again, would you want them then to trade the pieces that got them to the playoffs despite the blow-up? That makes no fucking sense...

    Stupid tanking logic
    "We need to lose to get higher picks and better players"
    "Shit, we traded the players we thought kept us mediocre and became better."
    "Guess we need to trade those guys, too. Can't afford to surpass expectations. If we keep losing for several decades, maybe we can become the next Clippers"

    If Indiana followed that logic, the year after they drafted George they should've blown it up. I mean, they finished 8th at 37-45 with a roster still lacking in balance and talent. Instead they picked up David West and George Hill to add to their core and are now at least a conference contender with an outside shot (but a legit one) at a title. It's not so simple as "we're mediocre so it's better to start sucking again".

Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 ... LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •