Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst ... 3 4 5
Results 81 to 94 of 94

Thread: Playoffs Next Year! Fool's Gold?

  1. #81
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    1,016
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Whatever happened to people discussing ideas without being total assholes?

    There are lots of places to post ideas littered with insults.

    Too bad this is turning into one of those places.
    Please tell me what warrants calling me an asshole? Pointing out how out of touch a "plan" is?

    Too bad some such comment wasn't provided for the anger filled, condescending, swearing that came from the mouth that I'm responding to. Double standard, depending on who supports your opinions?
    Last edited by p00ka; Sun Jul 7th, 2013 at 05:55 PM.

  2. #82
    Raptors Republic Superstar iblastoff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    3,447
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    i also find it kind of funny that some people make fun of the whole "gaggle of little high school kids in the draft" as if considering them as potential good players is silly and inconceivable. where do you think nba players even come from???

  3. #83
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    1,016
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote iblastoff wrote: View Post
    i also find it kind of funny that some people make fun of the whole "gaggle of little high school kids in the draft" as if considering them as potential good players is silly and inconceivable. where do you think nba players even come from???
    I understand where most players come from, but you miss the point, or choose to. It has nothing to do with not recognizing that high school kids become NBA stars. Tanknation justify dismantling the most promising team we've had for some time, littered already with lottery draft picks, because of the hype that not 1, not 2, but 5-8 NBA superstars, currently without a day of even college ball under their belt, are available for next year's lottery.

    fact: every year since the NBA began, high school stars take a dive when they get to college
    fact: every year since the NBA began, college stars take a dive when they get to the NBA
    fact: every year since the NBA began, star NBA rookies don't live up to their promise in subsequent years.

    Selling the farm over the hype of a bunch of high school kids is incredibly naive and short-sighted.

  4. #84
    Raptors Republic All-Star
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    1,138
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote p00ka wrote: View Post
    I understand where most players come from, but you miss the point, or choose to. It has nothing to do with not recognizing that high school kids become NBA stars. Tanknation justify dismantling the most promising team we've had for some time, littered already with lottery draft picks, because of the hype that not 1, not 2, but 5-8 NBA superstars, currently without a day of even college ball under their belt, are available for next year's lottery.
    This is wrong - and also illustrates the primary disagreement between us.

    Tanknation isn't advocating a rebuild because this draft is particularly great - that is certainly a bonus, don't get me wrong, but that's not the reason. Tanknation advocates for a rebuild because we fundamentally disagree with you: this is not a particularly good team. It is a mediocre one, filled out by players who for the most part are not top-10-NBA at their respective positions (Rudy is the exception as a low-end-of-top-10-small forward; Jonas may well get there but isn't there yet) that will stick around in the middle of the pack, occasionally getting an eighth seed in the playoffs at best. That's our ceiling with this team.

    Calling it "the most promising team we've had for some time" is certainly true, but that's a low bar to pass because we've had such awful teams for so long. It's still not a very good team. It's just better than what we had, and our only routes for improvement are incremental ones: hoping that players get significantly better (for everybody except Jonas and T-Ross, this is extremely unlikely) and maybe grabbing a role-player or two through the MLE because that's all we can afford to do. They will most likely not make us into a serious contender; instead, we will be the Canadian equivalent of the Atlanta Hawks or the Milwaukee Bucks.

    I really can't stress enough that most analysts, experts and professionals don't think this is a playoff-lock team; anybody who thinks we make playoffs thinks we make it in, barely, as the 8th seed. Nobody thinks its a championship team. Tim Leiweke certainly doesn't, he's said so practically from the beginning - and he wasn't just complaining about Bargnani and Linas Kleiza either. So how do we turn it into a championship team? Wait around for a couple years of mediocrity, hope Jonas gets better, hope we can resign Rudy to a more reasonable contract?

    One of your criticisms of rebuilding is that draft picks are not guaranteed. That's certainly true. But nothing is guaranteed. You have such a high opinion of Rudy; well, what if Rudy bails in 2015 because he wants a big payday we can't afford to give him, because he isn't enough to get us into serious contention and we need more pieces? Or because he's 29 then and wants to play for a "real contender" - which we will not be in 2014 or 2015? Then we're right back where we started: a bunch of average players and Jonas, who not coincidentally played about as well without Rudy as they did with him so long as Bargs wasn't stinking up the joint.

    If you want to believe this team is a playoff team, then go talk to Colangelo, who advocated exactly the same thing, right down to the point of publicly declaring he would trade Bargnani. BC was quite clear that he believed that this team, as built, was a playoff contender that just needed a little fine-tuning at most. They fired him for a reason: because he was wrong about this team's prospects and about its talent.

  5. Like iblastoff, Axel, mcHAPPY liked this post
  6. #85
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    20,663
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote p00ka wrote: View Post
    Please tell me what warrants calling me an asshole? Pointing out how out of touch a "plan" is?

    Too bad some such comment wasn't provided for the anger filled, condescending, swearing that came from the mouth that I'm responding to. Double standard, depending on who supports your opinions?

    Yes, the anger filled, conscending (?), swearing that came from me was to another poster who was also being an asshole (in my opinion, of course). I also provided examples to highlight my issue and did not hear one rebuttal. In fact we apologized and that was the end of it.

    There are more than you and the other person - and myself - around here of late. But since you asked what warrants being called an asshole, here goes:


    You asked magoon to give you trades... he did in a courteous manner. You then proceed to attempt to totally discredit and belittle his ideas, examples:

    It's your choice to disregard what you call moralizing, but just to make clear: I can guarantee that the Raptors organization feels the need to honour the competiveness of the players and coaches, and the money of the fans in the seats, long before they worry about what you, and a bunch of internet kids, would "much rather watch". And if you're not happy about that, or can't live with it, I'd suggest you might serve your needs better by finding another team, or hobby.
    .....Ya gotta be kidding!!!! And on what basis do you say the Cavs are currently a 7-8 seed (hahahahahahaha) and would give up all those 1st rounders for possibly 1 year of Rudy and a 5-6 seed (hahahaha)??? Their draft pick is going to be higher than that, and they damn well know it too. Just what fantasy and/or video games have you been killing it in, and how dumb are your opponents? You're being very unreralistic, lad. You provided some elaborate "reasoning", and I use that word lightly here, but to borrow your phrase, it's bullshit, fantasy games bullshit. Hey, keep up the vivid imagination, but don't take it too seriously. The NBA is operating in a real world of professionals running big business NBA teams, not fantasy games.
    Here we go again. Charlotte going on a bit of a run"????? What the hell are you talking about? A new head coach, who has yet to work with this really bad team, and the addition of Al Jefferson and you think a 21 win team is going to go on a run???? WTF??? Sorry, but hahahahahaha. Yeah, they need talent all right. A lot more than an SF to replace the #2 pick they made last year, who probably has the most upside on their entire team right now. But you think they're so hyped about the "run" they can make that they're going to trade their #2 pick sophomore, plus 2 1st round picks in 2014. *shaking my head*. More fantasy bullshit not even bordering on a semblance of reality.

    At this point, I'd say both your reasoning, as well as your fantasy hopes of returns for Rudy, are so far out to lunch, it's mind boggling.
    So you think Demar is a quality SG that would interest Dallas to be "a solid second scoring option", but feel that we don't have room for such a solid scoring option that is only 23, "who has great spirit and team ethic", because you feel his 2013/14 play, that you don't know about, doesn't justify his salary. Wake me up from this nightmare of yours when you start to make some sense, to say nothing of your assessment of Ross. I'm optimistic of what Ross can turn into, but what basis do you have to say he is a "starting option already"??? Nothing that happened last season lends the least bit of credence to that, so do tell how you say this is a factor in your desire to move DeMar for a not so great draft pick. A silly (downright stupid actually) proposition for the Raps to begin with, but why would currently low spending Dallas commit to overspending (according to you, but not reality) on DeMar for a 4 year committment, which could hamper their direction to signing big FAs??? Note: you seem to have a distorted view of "big spending" Dallas. In case you haven't noticed, they've been trying hard to go the low spending route over the past couple of years, so they have the cap room to sign big name FAs. They've trimmed themselves so much
    that prior to some recent low cost signings, the only player they had on the books for 2014/15 was Dirk. They're still going low cost as in Harris (their SG) for $3M/yr, Mekel at minimum, and even Jose at $7M/yr, which is low for a starting PG.

    I'm not even going to get into your expert opinion of Dallas's approach to draft picks, because at this point, none of your logic/reasoning makes sense for either Dallas or the Raps, so fail on DeMar too.
    So you want to send out our only proven PG, and one of the best value contracts in the league, for much higher priced garbage and an unproven 8th pick in a very weak draft, to compete with our 8th pick in a stronger draft, that hasn't proven a damn thing either. Mind boggling stupidity, despite being the only one of your trades that seems even remotely possible.

    At the end of the day, what you call a solid development team is mind boggling, but here's another thing: if you go with your alternative option for Gay (which I also see as pie-in-the-sky unreality), according to your moves, we have Fields for our SF, and Ross/MKG/KCP fighting it out for SG, and another undersized SG (Stuckey) playing PG. What the hell opportunity for develop (with nothing but garbage and unproven kids around him) do you think JV sees in this set up???? The kid can't develop surrounded by garbage!!! What, you're going to promise him that the high school kids you have your eye on will be available when you draft, and ready for NBA super-stardom in 4-5 years? I'd bet you'd have one very pissed 21 year on your hands, wanting out of this stupidity ASAP.
    PS. As a final note:
    If someone had said mid way through this past season, that in a few months, BC would be gone, AB would be gone, and we'd have a quality SF on board for the first time since VC, who wouldn't have been ecstatic? Yet it has all happened, and you tank-and-pray kids can't enjoy it for long enough to give the new GM a chance to take a breath and start working on a plan based on reality. Fucking mind boggling. Whiney, self-entitled children, sheeeesh.


    There is no double standard based on who supports my opinion. Your post actually makes a lot of sense. I flip flop almost daily on which route I'd like to see the Raptors take. The issue is you asked for magoon to give you something and he did. You then belittled him in just about every single way imaginable based solely on the idea that you don't think he opinions are realistic or valid. In my opinion, that is an asshole. There was nothing malicious or insulting in magoon's post towards you yet your reply was laced with insults.

    I was mocked and ridiculed for saying the Raptors should/would get Gay and in the end they got him for much less than I ever imagined. That is not to boast because I also said they should get Nash/Bargnani was a building block and much of the premise was based on exactly your ideas above. I'm wrong more often than right but I don't really care. I'm more interested in conversation as we go along the journey.

    You didn't show him how out of touch of reality his "plan" is. You showed him you aren't worth taking the time to converse with because you're likely to get a response back that is belittling and condescending. You make excellent points in your reply but you destroy any value with the bold sections. You weren't challenging the plan, you are challenging/insulting the person giving the plan with many of your comments. Essentially your personalized your argument.

    No one on these forums knows what value any of the players can return. We all guess and hypothesize mixing in our own values but in the end nothing. Who'd of guessed Bargnani would return 3 draft picks? Not me. I'm sure some did and more power to them but they would be the extreme minority, I think.


    Anyways, I will offer you an apology for acting like a moderator when I am not one. I should either deal with it or stop visiting. I do sincerely apologize for over stepping my bounds but at the same time I mean every single word.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

  7. Like Axel, Puffer, Bendit liked this post
  8. #86
    Raptors Republic Superstar isaacthompson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Oakville
    Posts
    3,585
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote p00ka wrote: View Post
    I understand where most players come from, but you miss the point, or choose to. It has nothing to do with not recognizing that high school kids become NBA stars. Tanknation justify dismantling the most promising team we've had for some time, littered already with lottery draft picks, because of the hype that not 1, not 2, but 5-8 NBA superstars, currently without a day of even college ball under their belt, are available for next year's lottery.

    fact: every year since the NBA began, high school stars take a dive when they get to college
    fact: every year since the NBA began, college stars take a dive when they get to the NBA
    fact: every year since the NBA began, star NBA rookies don't live up to their promise in subsequent years.

    Selling the farm over the hype of a bunch of high school kids is incredibly naive and short-sighted.
    Agreed. Look at how many teams are fucked if the 2013 highschoolers all bomb out in college. Every draft is filled with landmines.
    Twitter - @thekid_it

  9. #87
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    1,016
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    You're right Matt52. My apologies for being an asshole, particularly to magoon.

  10. Like Puffer, magoon liked this post
  11. #88
    Raptors Republic All-Star
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    1,138
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote p00ka wrote: View Post
    You're right Matt52. My apologies for being an asshole, particularly to magoon.
    And mine back in turn, because I can certainly come across as arrogant or condescending.

    We're all Raps fans and that's what's most important.

  12. Like Puffer liked this post
  13. #89
    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Hamilton,ON a.k.a. The Hammer!
    Posts
    5,331
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    NO! There's specified threads for getting along.. this is not one of them. I demand pooka and Maggom fight to the death gladiator style!
    If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

    Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

  14. Like p00ka liked this post
  15. #90
    Raptors Republic Rookie
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Winnipeg
    Posts
    80
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    waaay too much love for chicago. i keep getting the vibe from everyone that rose is the saviour and will bring the bulls back to prominence, even when half their bench from last season is gone.

    i say raps end up 5th, 6th seed for sure. i agree. nets, i dunnnnno, i think they're gonna scare some people, if kidd can figure out how to coach and not drink and drive.

    Quote feet85 wrote: View Post
    1. Miami Heat
    2. Chicago Bulls
    3. Indiana Pacers
    4. Brooklyn Nets
    5. New York Knicks
    6. Toronto Raptors
    7. Washington Wizards
    8. Detroit Pistons

    Ladies and Gentlemen your 2013-14 Eastern Conference Playoffs
    Protocall
    https://www.youtube.com/user/PTC204
    http://www.ptc204.com

    Uploaded a new track: Please like or comment on it if you dig it! Thanks
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAT4s_LO-rc

    The best day of 2013 was the day I found out Andrea Bargnani got traded.

  16. #91
    Raptors Republic Starter Sam17's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Brampton, ON
    Posts
    400
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Protocall wrote: View Post
    waaay too much love for chicago. i keep getting the vibe from everyone that rose is the saviour and will bring the bulls back to prominence, even when half their bench from last season is gone.

    i say raps end up 5th, 6th seed for sure. i agree. nets, i dunnnnno, i think they're gonna scare some people, if kidd can figure out how to coach and not drink and drive.
    You're setting yourself up for disappointment if you think we'll be that good

  17. #92
    Raptors Republic All-Star Miekenstien's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    2,022
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Rose is going to kill it this year. Doesn't matter how many bench players you lose if you gain one d-rose. Still have boozer, noah and deng and gibson off the bench. That is a good team.

    Can't remember who else voted rose thier favourite player but i will be watching all of chicagos' games again this year.

  18. #93
    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    20,663
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Protocall wrote: View Post
    waaay too much love for chicago. i keep getting the vibe from everyone that rose is the saviour and will bring the bulls back to prominence, even when half their bench from last season is gone.

    i say raps end up 5th, 6th seed for sure. i agree. nets, i dunnnnno, i think they're gonna scare some people, if kidd can figure out how to coach and not drink and drive.
    They lost their bench AND Rose the year before and still managed to get a 5th seed AND win a series.

    Of significance they lost:

    Robinson who will be replaced by Hinrich as backup and Rose replaces Hinrich as starter

    Belinelli/Hamilton who will be replaced by Butler in starting lineup.

    Belinelli/Butler off bench who will be Dunleavey.


    I think Rose/Hinrich/Butler/Dunleavey is a much better than Hinrich/Robinson/Belinelli/Hamilton.


    Bulls are going to be a top 4 seed imo.
    Last edited by mcHAPPY; Thu Jul 18th, 2013 at 08:55 AM.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

  19. Like Axel liked this post
  20. #94
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    2,304
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    What's Chicago's problem anyways? I thought they were one of the biggest markets in the NBA, but year after year they seem deathly afraid of the luxury tax. The core of that team can compete with any team, but that bench of theirs has never been a strong point because and they refuse to pay to get any decent talentto strengthen it. Talks about Deng in trades is also a constant thing. I just don't understand why they won't go over the cap to make a run at a championship while they currently have this window.

Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst ... 3 4 5

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •