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Thread: Future of the franchise depends on what the Raptors do this offseason

  1. #61
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    If DeRozan spent the majority of his time backing his defenders down in the post, he could be a very useful/efficient piece to the offense.
    Thats true.

    Then to balance it out we'll get JV knocking down 3's.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  2. #62
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I get what you're saying.

    I agree with getting the most value for DD and if there was more out there, obviously I'd go that route instead.

    I think both players are valuable depth pieces. They could start but it is hardly ideal and not what I would look for them to do. Ideally neither would play more than 18-20 minutes per game assuming no injuries to the rotation.

    Both are extremely efficient on the offensive end and Wright is great help on the defensive end (agree Collison is not great on D but if Jose can work with Casey like in 2011-12, I feel Collison could - nothing to base that on btw).

    Financially I think you should be able to get both guys for under $6.5M which would provide $3M in salary relief while filling a roster space and addressing areas of need.

    Anyways, that is a synopsis of what went through my mind when making the suggestion. It is hardly off the cuff or a sign of hatred of DeRozan.

    EDIT:

    A comparison of Wright and Collison to AJ and KL:

    http://www.thenbageek.com/players/co..._ids[]=105
    Both have very obvious and restrictive limitations though.

    Jose, as "bad" as he was defensively, had excellent size for a PG. PGs would not often try to post him up...I mean, what was the point? It was much easier to face up against him than deal with his decent size. Collison, because of his size, becomes a real liability in multiple ways....I mean, if you're small AND a poor defender, what then? Small guys usually make up for it by being some of the best face up defensive guards. Collison doesn't.

    Wright is someone I take with a grain of salt. I'm intrigued by him, but again, would not give up an asset for him. I'm wary of a guy who basically has only "earned" roles on teams where the coach didn't have another option. Makes me think he has awful intangibles. But his obvious flaw is his lack of strength. Struggles to bang bodies and hasn't really gotten stronger...again, making me doubt his intangibles, work ethic in this case.

    I didn't think it was really a slight against DD...it's just I think there are better deals than that. Heck, if it was even Collison and a more reliable big, I'd be open to it. There's gotta be a better deal than that out there.


    As a sidenote:
    One situation I'm re-energized on is Ilyasova. Is Milwaukee tanking? IF they are, why keep a long-term contract like Ilyasova? They also have Henson aching to get more burn, and I think he's the eventual starting PF to form a nightmarish (for opponents) defensive combo with Sanders. Throw in this strange rationale I've got...but DeMar's a better player than Ilyasova to have on a bad team, especially since that team currently has no one under contract for next year they can give the ball to to score. On top of that, if they are tanking, they shouldn't care if he's inefficient. But what does Ersan give them? They don't have a legit post-up threat for him to get kick-outs, nor do they have security at the PG or wing positions where they have a guy who can breakdown or p'n'r to create outside shots. He's also not really a leader on their team...so yeah...intrigued that he might be a possibility again.

  3. #63
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Oh, if the Raps could lock up the rights to Nick Calathes in addition to Collison and Wright, that would be even better.
    BTW, I'd take Calathes 10 out of 10 times over Collison. Calathes is getting better every year in Europe, and at least over there, has been an EXCELLENT defensive PG.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    Both have very obvious and restrictive limitations though.

    Jose, as "bad" as he was defensively, had excellent size for a PG. PGs would not often try to post him up...I mean, what was the point? It was much easier to face up against him than deal with his decent size. Collison, because of his size, becomes a real liability in multiple ways....I mean, if you're small AND a poor defender, what then? Small guys usually make up for it by being some of the best face up defensive guards. Collison doesn't.

    Wright is someone I take with a grain of salt. I'm intrigued by him, but again, would not give up an asset for him. I'm wary of a guy who basically has only "earned" roles on teams where the coach didn't have another option. Makes me think he has awful intangibles. But his obvious flaw is his lack of strength. Struggles to bang bodies and hasn't really gotten stronger...again, making me doubt his intangibles, work ethic in this case.

    I didn't think it was really a slight against DD...it's just I think there are better deals than that. Heck, if it was even Collison and a more reliable big, I'd be open to it. There's gotta be a better deal than that out there.


    As a sidenote:
    One situation I'm re-energized on is Ilyasova. Is Milwaukee tanking? IF they are, why keep a long-term contract like Ilyasova? They also have Henson aching to get more burn, and I think he's the eventual starting PF to form a nightmarish (for opponents) defensive combo with Sanders. Throw in this strange rationale I've got...but DeMar's a better player than Ilyasova to have on a bad team, especially since that team currently has no one under contract for next year they can give the ball to to score. On top of that, if they are tanking, they shouldn't care if he's inefficient. But what does Ersan give them? They don't have a legit post-up threat for him to get kick-outs, nor do they have security at the PG or wing positions where they have a guy who can breakdown or p'n'r to create outside shots. He's also not really a leader on their team...so yeah...intrigued that he might be a possibility again.
    I hope there are better deals out there for him.

    I really like the idea of Wright. Novak for Wright and Calathes - if Howard signs of course.


    It sounded last night like Milwaukee and Mayo were pretty close to a deal. Nothing mentioned so far today though. I like Ilyasova and would trade him for DD no questions asked. Sounds like Milwaukee is building around Henson/Sanders/Ilyasova front court though based on comments from Hammond (which really mean nothing).
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  5. #65
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    BTW, I'd take Calathes 10 out of 10 times over Collison. Calathes is getting better every year in Europe, and at least over there, has been an EXCELLENT defensive PG.
    Agree. I've been high on Calathes for quite some time.

    What I wonder though is why Dallas, with their need at PG the last 2 years, have not signed him?
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  6. #66
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Thats true.

    Then to balance it out we'll get JV knocking down 3's.
    lol, Jonas already has better shooting mechanics than DeRozan's catapult....
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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  8. #67
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I hope there are better deals out there for him.

    I really like the idea of Wright. Novak for Wright and Calathes - if Howard signs of course.


    It sounded last night like Milwaukee and Mayo were pretty close to a deal. Nothing mentioned so far today though. I like Ilyasova and would trade him for DD no questions asked. Sounds like Milwaukee is building around Henson/Sanders/Ilyasova front court though based on comments from Hammond (which really mean nothing).
    Ah yes....Milwaukee just can't let go of that "8th seed or bust" mentality. I mean, Dallas gave Mayo a big chance last year and he kind of ruined it. If he basically becomes their best player going into next year....they'll be better than the "tankers" but at best an 8th seed. Fucking Milwaukee...wonder how it feels to be a fan of theirs.

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    Raptors Republic Starter special1's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    You are clearly much younger than I am or we have significant differences in values.

    Lets review:

    http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...ht=#post217481

    http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...ht=#post216934

    http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...ht=#post216855

    http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...ht=#post211480

    http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...ht=#post211477

    http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...ht=#post211459


    You've provided nothing in terms of supporting your position other than:
    1) DD is just 23
    2) He works hard
    3) hope and potential


    That is all well and good. I respect your opinion. You say you respect mine but your posts above say quite the contrary.


    I forgot about this post. I wish I had not.

    http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...l=1#post211479
    Unfortunately, I don't have time to review each and every post where we disagreed. I imagine there are tons of them. You probably missed some...lol.

    With regard to the earlier posts.....(again keep in mind i haven't reviewed any)...I think they would show me disagreeing with your opinion NOT disrespecting it. If I was disrespectful, I do apologize......we all get a bit heated from time to time as we're all obviously passionate Raptor fans.

    What more do we have than hope and potential (for younger players)?? I'm hoping like no other that JV will reach his potential.....same with Ross and will continue to do so for young players on our team.

    Look at Rudy Gay or Tyreke Evans.....GREAT rookie seasons and plateau or regression.....it doesnt always come together for players in the first 4 seasons. Some players have to work hard at it for years before they show major improvements. Look at Danny Green as an example or Chauncey Billups.

    Maybe i cut Demar some slack because of the crappy team he's been on for all his years here and still wants to stay.

    1) Bosh was ready to take off in his first season
    2) He had Hedo Turk on his team his first season
    3) Bargnani as a number one option is pretty lame.

    He finally has some guys that he can go to war with (JV, Rudy, Amir - even Lowry) and i'd rather see if we can build upon that instead of trading him for scrubs.

  10. #69
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Agree. I've been high on Calathes for quite some time.

    What I wonder though is why Dallas, with their need at PG the last 2 years, have not signed him?
    Well, they clearly didn't want to invest in him and then have to consider renouncing him to sign Howard. Also they've needed a starter, and I don't think he's close to being an everyday NBA starter. He'll need a season to adjust, like most rookies, and he'll need to work on his shot even harder.

    But he's 6'6'' with good tools all around. Excellent defensive player. Has been improving offensively every year. He's pretty quick, I think...it's always hard to judge how quick he'd be in the NBA, but he wouldn't be slow.

    Here's a highlight reel from when he was Panathinaikos....but I'll try to find one from the season that just past where he played for Lokomotiv Kuban.


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    Quote special1 wrote: View Post
    Look at Rudy Gay or Tyreke Evans.....GREAT rookie seasons and plateau or regression.....it doesnt always come together for players in the first 4 seasons. Some players have to work hard at it for years before they show major improvements. Look at Danny Green as an example or Chauncey Billups.
    Green isn't a good example at all: he got cut early by Cleveland (who was terrible at the time), got signed by San Antonio, took some D-League time and then almost immediately afterwards started producing at the level he produces at now. Green found his level of play after only 200 minutes of major league play and about another 1000 in the D-League.

    Billups isn't a great example either because most of his numbers went up along with his usage rate; his per-game statistics mostly remained within the same range with three exceptions (three-point shooting and field goal percentages, and a slight increase in his assist rate - but that latter is probably affected by the fact that he got played for a while as a shooting guard and then got moved back to point).

    Billups is a textbook example of how point guards improve: by finding a jumper and learning more floor IQ at the same time as they play more games. But when Billups made his jump (his second season in Minnesota), he'd played about two thousand minutes less than DeMar has already.

    tl;dr - most players who improve over time improve before they've played as many minutes as DeMar has.

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    Quote magoon wrote: View Post
    Green isn't a good example at all: he got cut early by Cleveland (who was terrible at the time), got signed by San Antonio, took some D-League time and then almost immediately afterwards started producing at the level he produces at now. Green found his level of play after only 200 minutes of major league play and about another 1000 in the D-League.

    Billups isn't a great example either because most of his numbers went up along with his usage rate; his per-game statistics mostly remained within the same range with three exceptions (three-point shooting and field goal percentages, and a slight increase in his assist rate - but that latter is probably affected by the fact that he got played for a while as a shooting guard and then got moved back to point).

    Billups is a textbook example of how point guards improve: by finding a jumper and learning more floor IQ at the same time as they play more games. But when Billups made his jump (his second season in Minnesota), he'd played about two thousand minutes less than DeMar has already.

    tl;dr - most players who improve over time improve before they've played as many minutes as DeMar has.
    I was more referring to 3 point shooting improvement....i should've made that more clear. However, I do realize that both were wayyy better shooters coming into the league.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    Well, they clearly didn't want to invest in him and then have to consider renouncing him to sign Howard. Also they've needed a starter, and I don't think he's close to being an everyday NBA starter. He'll need a season to adjust, like most rookies, and he'll need to work on his shot even harder.

    But he's 6'6'' with good tools all around. Excellent defensive player. Has been improving offensively every year. He's pretty quick, I think...it's always hard to judge how quick he'd be in the NBA, but he wouldn't be slow.

    Here's a highlight reel from when he was Panathinaikos....but I'll try to find one from the season that just past where he played for Lokomotiv Kuban.

    He was a 2nd rd draft pick so his hold would have been a $473k. But even with that logic they have still agreed to a deal with Mekel for 3 years with $2.3M guaranteed.

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...mekel/2484497/


    I'm guessing that it would take more than that money to sign Calathes.

    I'm in full agreement by the way. I'd love the Raps to get him. For those who say, "Oh great, another Euro!" they can check his NCAA numbers. http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/...es-1237/stats/
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Earl Clark is a free agent....I think he would fit this team as a stretch 4 who can rebound. I watched a lot of LA Lakers games this past year and he showed that he can play. He took over 100 3's last year and hit almost 34 percent of them. He averaged 5.5 rebounds in 23 mins. Isn't he someone we should be looking at to replace what Bargnani brought (but better rebounding)?

    What do you guys think about Earl Clark?

    http://www.nba.com/playerfile/earl_clark/index.html
    Last edited by special1; Thu Jul 4th, 2013 at 02:19 PM.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote special1 wrote: View Post
    Unfortunately, I don't have time to review each and every post where we disagreed. I imagine there are tons of them. You probably missed some...lol.

    With regard to the earlier posts.....(again keep in mind i haven't reviewed any)...I think they would show me disagreeing with your opinion NOT disrespecting it. If I was disrespectful, I do apologize......we all get a bit heated from time to time as we're all obviously passionate Raptor fans.

    What more do we have than hope and potential (for younger players)?? I'm hoping like no other that JV will reach his potential.....same with Ross and will continue to do so for young players on our team.

    Look at Rudy Gay or Tyreke Evans.....GREAT rookie seasons and plateau or regression.....it doesnt always come together for players in the first 4 seasons. Some players have to work hard at it for years before they show major improvements. Look at Danny Green as an example or Chauncey Billups.

    Maybe i cut Demar some slack because of the crappy team he's been on for all his years here and still wants to stay.

    1) Bosh was ready to take off in his first season
    2) He had Hedo Turk on his team his first season
    3) Bargnani as a number one option is pretty lame.

    He finally has some guys that he can go to war with (JV, Rudy, Amir - even Lowry) and i'd rather see if we can build upon that instead of trading him for scrubs.
    All I did was click your name and click forum posts. Those posts were 6 of your last 10 or so. I stand by my comments that you are being petty and immature based on a difference of opinion on DD's value as a player.

    I do accept your apology and I apologize for my comment regarding your handle from a couple weeks back.

    All your post is a rehash of previous comments. In reading it I don't think you understand or acknowledge the underlying premise of my argument, that is, DD has been a first or second option for 3 years and is a known product. During those three years he has shown no statistical improvement (little increase in some areas, little decrease in others = no increase overall). In pointing to Danny Green or Chauncey Billups I think you illustrate you are not getting my rationale. Those guys made break outs after changing teams and never having an opportunity to be the 1st or 2nd option on an NBA team nor did they play over 9700 NBA minutes.

    DD may be chronologically young but as for NBA experience he has already surpassed that of the average NBA career in years and I would venture to guess far exceeded it in terms of minutes.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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  18. #75
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Rewinding a bit to those Novak ideas, it seems to me that Howard's management team are already shifting the blame to Kobe for when he leaves:





    The whole money thing with the Lakers (5th year, $117M) is bogus as well. With the no state income tax in Texas, Howard will make an extra $2.6M in Texas.

    Dallas or Houston here he comes!
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  19. #76
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    All I did was click your name and click forum posts. Those posts were 6 of your last 10 or so. I stand by my comments that you are being petty and immature based on a difference of opinion on DD's value as a player.

    I do accept your apology and I apologize for my comment regarding your handle from a couple weeks back.

    All your post is a rehash of previous comments. In reading it I don't think you understand or acknowledge the underlying premise of my argument, that is, DD has been a first or second option for 3 years and is a known product. During those three years he has shown no statistical improvement (little increase in some areas, little decrease in others = no increase overall). In pointing to Danny Green or Chauncey Billups I think you illustrate you are not getting my rationale. Those guys made break outs after changing teams and never having an opportunity to be the 1st or 2nd option on an NBA team nor did they play over 9700 NBA minutes.

    DD may be chronologically young but as for NBA experience he has already surpassed that of the average NBA career in years and I would venture to guess far exceeded it in terms of minutes.
    No worries. I realize we have a difference of opinion when it comes to Demar.

    You are right that he was forced to be a 1st or 2nd option for this team..... I think this is where many posters unfairly treat Demar and even Andrea. These guys are not 1st options and may be 2nd options at best. Neither are/were paid as 1st options. We basically set them up to fail.

    He put up really good numbers (minus 3 point shooting) in his 2nd year. It's a lot harder being the 1st option and may explain why his numbers regressed in his 3rd year (I believe Bargs was hurt a lot that year).

    I would argue Demar could grow into being a VERY good 3rd or maybe even a good 2nd option. Obviously, we'll see if he continues to get better. I'm optimistic about this year coming up because we'll get a very good idea of what he can be this year.

    Here's my reasons for giving him one more year to show what he can do:

    - Demar shot 28.3 % from behind the 3 point line last year (keep in mind his carreer average was 20.6 before last season)
    - shot 83 percent from free throw line (career high, while getting there more than any previous year)
    - career high in rebounds to 3.9 (very slight increase - .1)
    - career high in assists (2.5) and increase by .5
    - career high in ppg (18.1 ppg) an increase of .9
    - less personal fouls per game than any year
    - Timofey Mozgov poster (2nd in Dunk of the year voting on NBA.com behind Deandre Jordan vs. Brandon Knight)
    - Game winning shot for the first time in his career vs Orlando
    - Rudy Gay said he's the best shooting PG he's ever played with

  20. #77
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    So, anyone else think that Masai is done with trades for the summer? I get the impression that he will address the back up PG situation and roll out essentially the same squad from last season, this season. Seems like his main goal is to get our cap situation in order.

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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    So, anyone else think that Masai is done with trades for the summer? I get the impression that he will address the back up PG situation and roll out essentially the same squad from last season, this season. Seems like his main goal is to get our cap situation in order.
    I'd be surprised if he's already done with roster moves, aside from filling in the holes. I think the whole league is waiting for Howard and the other big dominos to fall, then we'll see even more moves being made.

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    Quote special1 wrote: View Post
    Earl Clark is a free agent....I think he would fit this team as a stretch 4 who can rebound. I watched a lot of LA Lakers games this past year and he showed that he can play. He took over 100 3's last year and hit almost 34 percent of them. He averaged 5.5 rebounds in 23 mins. Isn't he someone we should be looking at to replace what Bargnani brought (but better rebounding)?

    What do you guys think about Earl Clark?

    http://www.nba.com/playerfile/earl_clark/index.html
    Earl Clark to Cavs....RT from MStein (can't get twitter here). I read somewhere that JSmith is going to take til after the holiday weekend to decide so things should pick up from there. Unless all hell breaks loose once D12 (where the D stands for Domino) decides

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    So, anyone else think that Masai is done with trades for the summer? I get the impression that he will address the back up PG situation and roll out essentially the same squad from last season, this season. Seems like his main goal is to get our cap situation in order.
    Nope.

    Even Colangelo was in agreement Bargnani had to go. That was a given. The problem, of course, was Colangelo shared that with EVERYONE.

    If the team was happy with the team and wanted to roll out the same squad from last season they certainly fooled me said the exact opposite during interview post-Leiweke and Ujiri hirings. They could have just kept BC on to finish out his contract in that case as well.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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