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Thread: Future of the franchise depends on what the Raptors do this offseason

  1. #41
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    By the way, if Howard ends up in Dallas Novak could be useful as well. I would not be opposed to sign and trade Wright or Collison. Hell, even if Howard does not end up in Dallas, I would not be opposed to a double sign and trade with Collison and Wright coming for DeRozan.
    Really? I would not trade DeMar for those 2 guys....Those are some pretty mediocre assets. Maybe if they included a first rder I'd consider it. Maybe.

  2. #42
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote tucas wrote: View Post
    While both are solid players, I wouldnt want to trade Demar for 2 players who will be in a backup role on the Raptors. But I do think Raptors have more assets now than they did last season that Dallas would be interested in. Maybe Novak, Fields and a couple 2nd's for Collison and Wright. No need to give up one of your best players for free agents. Teams would always prefer to get something than nothing.
    I was making the assumption you couldn't get both for $5.15M (MLE).

    If you can get both for that, then you are right on.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  3. #43
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    Really? I would not trade DeMar for those 2 guys....Those are some pretty mediocre assets. Maybe if they included a first rder I'd consider it. Maybe.
    Scoring points inefficiently is not the Raptors issue.

    They need depth. Collison and Wright are solid pieces off the bench, in my opinion.

    I think I'm the minority but I really feel DD needs to be traded before it becomes obvious to all that potential is no longer an appropriate descriptor.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  4. #44
    Raptors Republic Starter special1's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I wouldn't trade Novak for White. White would never step on Canadian soil. The trade would essentially be Novak for Terrence Jones.
    I think I would trade Novak for Terrence Jones.

  5. #45
    Raptors Republic Starter special1's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    By the way, if Howard ends up in Dallas Novak could be useful as well. I would not be opposed to sign and trade Wright or Collison. Hell, even if Howard does not end up in Dallas, I would not be opposed to a double sign and trade with Collison and Wright coming for DeRozan.
    EWWWW - Are you Kidding me? Collison is a dissappointment and Wright???

    Thanks for making it obvious how much you undervalue DD......WOW

  6. #46
    Raptors Republic All-Star tucas's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I was making the assumption you couldn't get both for $5.15M (MLE).

    If you can get both for that, then you are right on.
    My point wasn't that both could be signed using the MLE, but even if the raptors couldn't sign them they'd likely leave for another team(Collison atleast) and Dallas would get nothing. If they were fine with coming to the raptors, I don't think DeMar would be the piece to go. They would take what they could get IMO.(I.e. bucks/JJ Redick)
    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I think I'm the minority but I really feel DD needs to be traded before it becomes obvious to all that potential is no longer an appropriate descriptor.
    I agree DeMar needs to be traded but they can get more than Collison and Wright for him, especially with both of them being free agents.

  7. #47
    Raptors Republic Starter special1's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Scoring points inefficiently is not the Raptors issue.

    They need depth. Collison and Wright are solid pieces off the bench, in my opinion.

    I think I'm the minority but I really feel DD needs to be traded before it becomes obvious to all that potential is no longer an appropriate descriptor.
    I totally understood the Bargnani argument because after 6-7 years we knew what we had with him BUT with Demar i'm confused.....

    I'm still trying to figure out how he'll improve next year and your ready to trade him for scrubs!? I just don't understand why you are 100 percent sure that Demar will FAIL to live up to his potential. I think we owe it to ourselves to see how he plays this upcoming season. He's had 4 years (1 being a shortened season with no training camp) and your already giving up on him.

    Its actually pretty sad because he's NOT Andrea. Demar couldn't shoot for shit when he came into the league. He had no handles (still has a lot more work to do), he couldn't pass and couldn't finish with contact in the lane.

    He has improved (however slightly) all the areas he needed to work on AND your STILL shitting on him DAILY. Collison and Wright is just another slap in the face of true Raptor Fans. Why?? Because, your not offering anything of true potential or value in return.....your offering to trade one of our best players for SCRUBS.

    I really used to respect your opinions (one of the few i actually trusted to deliver good and honest posts....maybe thats why I go back and forth with you at times, BUT this is starting to get ridiculous! You need to resolve your HATE for Demar soon.....

  8. #48
    Raptors Republic Starter special1's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    You seriously need to fuck off.

    Your constant antagonizing and belittling posts are petty and immature.

    I have no problem with a difference of opinion but it is clear you do based on posts of late.

    So again please fuck right off.
    WOW. You must be having a bad day. Don't worry i don't take posts personal. I apologize if you thought i was trying to attack you personally. I was more surpised that you would post something so ridiculous...... I do think you should chill out a bit. Regardless of our difference of opinions (more recently - almost all regarding Demar).....I still read your posts and respect you as a long time Raptor fan.

  9. #49
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    i'm with matt, DD needs to be traded sooner than later. love the guy, how he represents the city and the team, his work ethic and passion, but the bottom line is he's horribly inefficient on both sides of the ball and before EVERYONE figures that out, we should try and get something for him. The way analytics are going it won't be long till he has a huge red flag beside him on everyone's radar.

    DD for Collison and Wright sure isn't sexy but it would upgrade our team's depth, which is one of our worst attributes, which in turn would mean we'd win more games.
    @jerboat

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  11. #50
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Scoring points inefficiently is not the Raptors issue.

    They need depth. Collison and Wright are solid pieces off the bench, in my opinion.

    I think I'm the minority but I really feel DD needs to be traded before it becomes obvious to all that potential is no longer an appropriate descriptor.
    Our opinions differ. Or I guess in terms of degrees at least.

    Collison can't defend, or shoot consistently. He's an uptempo PG who's good at getting to the line. He can be an ok backup, I guess, but no one I'd give up an asset to get.

    Wright had his best season playing for a depthless Mavs team. He's a good enough bench player...but again, no one I'd give up an asset to get.

    Getting these guys would not be getting high value for DeMar. It would just be a patchwork trade for the next season. It's exactly the kind of thing I want to avoid. No long-term assets acquired, and a young asset traded away.

    *Edit: That's why I said I'd consider it with a 1st rd pick though (it can be heavily protected, or for like 2018...whatever). They would definitely need to sweeten the deal for me.
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Thu Jul 4th, 2013 at 11:23 AM.

  12. #51
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    What do you guys think DD's value is exactly? The clips didn't want anything to do with him and the coach they just hired supposedly loves him.
    @jerboat

  13. #52
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote special1 wrote: View Post
    WOW. You must be having a bad day. Don't worry i don't take posts personal. I apologize if you thought i was trying to attack you personally. I was more surpised that you would post something so ridiculous...... I do think you should chill out a bit. Regardless of our difference of opinions (more recently - almost all regarding Demar).....I still read your posts and respect you as a long time Raptor fan.
    You are clearly much younger than I am or we have significant differences in values.

    Lets review:

    http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...ht=#post217481

    http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...ht=#post216934

    http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...ht=#post216855

    http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...ht=#post211480

    http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...ht=#post211477

    http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...ht=#post211459


    You've provided nothing in terms of supporting your position other than:
    1) DD is just 23
    2) He works hard
    3) hope and potential

    That is all well and good. I respect your opinion. You say you respect mine but your posts above say quite the contrary.


    I forgot about this post. I wish I had not.

    http://www.raptorsrepublic.com/forum...l=1#post211479
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  14. #53
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote special1 wrote: View Post
    Demar couldn't shoot for shit when he came into the league. He had no handles (still has a lot more work to do), he couldn't pass and couldn't finish with contact in the lane.
    Haha, DeMar STILL can't do any of these things.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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  16. #54
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    Our opinions differ. Or I guess in terms of degrees at least.

    Collison can't defend, or shoot consistently. He's an uptempo PG who's good at getting to the line. He can be an ok backup, I guess, but no one I'd give up an asset to get.

    Wright had his best season playing for a depthless Mavs team. He's a good enough bench player...but again, no one I'd give up an asset to get.

    Getting these guys would not be getting high value for DeMar. It would just be a patchwork trade for the next season. It's exactly the kind of thing I want to avoid. No long-term assets acquired, and a young asset traded away.

    *Edit: That's why I said I'd consider it with a 1st rd pick though (it can be heavily protected, or for like 2018...whatever). They would definitely need to sweeten the deal for me.
    I get what you're saying.

    I agree with getting the most value for DD and if there was more out there, obviously I'd go that route instead.

    I think both players are valuable depth pieces. They could start but it is hardly ideal and not what I would look for them to do. Ideally neither would play more than 18-20 minutes per game assuming no injuries to the rotation.

    Both are extremely efficient on the offensive end and Wright is great help on the defensive end (agree Collison is not great on D but if Jose can work with Casey like in 2011-12, I feel Collison could - nothing to base that on btw).

    Financially I think you should be able to get both guys for under $6.5M which would provide $3M in salary relief while filling a roster space and addressing areas of need.

    Anyways, that is a synopsis of what went through my mind when making the suggestion. It is hardly off the cuff or a sign of hatred of DeRozan.

    EDIT:

    A comparison of Wright and Collison to AJ and KL:

    http://www.thenbageek.com/players/co..._ids[]=105
    Last edited by mcHAPPY; Thu Jul 4th, 2013 at 11:51 AM.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  17. #55
    Raptors Republic All-Star Axel's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Haha, DeMar STILL can't do any of these things.
    I was thinking the same thing.
    F*ck Brooklyn

  18. #56
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    Haha, DeMar STILL can't do any of these things.
    Not consistently.

    To his credit he has shown flashes but he can't do these things consistently.

    Prime example: how many times towards the end of the season when he started handling the ball more did we see DD pick up his dribble, get stuck without his dribble/trapped, and then throw an off balance cross court pass that got stolen? That is elementary.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  19. #57
    Raptors Republic All-Star Axel's Avatar
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    I like Demar but he isn't going to be the cornerstone of this franchise. He is a good player, but wont be great.

    The biggest problem with Demar is that he can't shoot the three, so you either hope he develops the skill or you trade him and bring in someone who can. If you believe that he can develop that skill, then he's a good player to have. But if you don't think he will, then moving him now makes the most sense.

    Demar is likely our 4th or 5th best asset to move (JV, Gay, Lowry, then maybe Ross) and of those, Demar's value is probably the shortest lived if he can put it together this year.
    F*ck Brooklyn

  20. #58
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Oh, if the Raps could lock up the rights to Nick Calathes in addition to Collison and Wright, that would be even better.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  21. #59
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Oh, if the Raps could lock up the rights to Nick Calathes in addition to Collison and Wright, that would be even better.


    He kind of looks like Sherman from American Pie
    @jerboat

  22. #60
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    If DeRozan spent the majority of his time backing his defenders down in the post, he could be a very useful/efficient piece to the offense.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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