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Thread: Future of the franchise depends on what the Raptors do this offseason

  1. #101
    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
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    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    I don't know about the other Atlanta teams. But the hawks have a mediocre season and then get ass kicked out of the first round. If they're lucky they'll make it to the second and then proceed to get swept
    The Hawks had 50 win seasons. They were above mediocre
    If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

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  2. #102
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Quote LBF wrote: View Post
    The Hawks had 50 win seasons. They were above mediocre
    they only had one 50 win season a few years back but i get what you're saying. they did make the second round 2 or 3 years in a row there.
    @jerboat

  3. #103
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    they only had one 50 win season a few years back but i get what you're saying. they did make the second round 2 or 3 years in a row there.
    Shit. I thought it was like two or three.

    It was essentially they swept the first round and got swept in the second like four years in a row.
    If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

    Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

  4. #104
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    I think what props was saying though was the hawks are the perfect example of a middle of the pack team. they can't contend for the championship but they will win a ton of games during the regular season and maybe get past the first round. There's no substance to that, though. It might not be the 7-11 but lets call it the tim hortons in cornwall.

    Like Masai and Leweike said, anyone can build a playoff team. That's actually pretty easy which is kind of crazy when you think about what BC did the whole time he was here. Building a contender is a process, and there's going to be some eggs cracked to make that omelet.
    @jerboat

  5. #105
    Raptors Republic All-Star Jclaw's Avatar
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    Any way we could get into the Golden State fire sale? Should we?

    http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/s...rd-sources-say

  6. #106
    Raptors Republic All-Star tucas's Avatar
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    Quote Jclaw wrote: View Post
    Any way we could get into the Golden State fire sale? Should we?

    http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/s...rd-sources-say
    They're looking to shed salary and we can't absorb it. Won't happen.

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  8. #107
    Raptors Republic All-Star Jclaw's Avatar
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    Quote tucas wrote: View Post
    They're looking to shed salary and we can't absorb it. Won't happen.
    Jefferon/Biedrins/picks to us...Gay to Detroit...meaningless stuff to GS. Three way stuff

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  10. #108
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    Quote Jclaw wrote: View Post
    Jefferon/Biedrins/picks to us...Gay to Detroit...meaningless stuff to GS. Three way stuff
    Hmm... Neat idea. Hard to do without an updated version of the trade machine. Only way I'd love it is with a Clay Thompson acquisition though...

  11. #109
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Jclaw wrote: View Post
    Jefferon/Biedrins/picks to us...Gay to Detroit...meaningless stuff to GS. Three way stuff
    How is that really any different than just trading Gay straight to Detroit? And don't say "GSW has a 2014 pick" because I'm more and more convinced any team with sense will not trade their 2014 1st.

  12. #110
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    How is that really any different than just trading Gay straight to Detroit? And don't say "GSW has a 2014 pick" because I'm more and more convinced any team with sense will not trade their 2014 1st.
    I think the teams that will refuse to trade their 1st round pick are the probable lottery teams. Late 1st rounders will most likely be available.

    That said, alot of those teams (later 1st rounders) may still wait until well into the season. GS, as stands, could easily drop out of the playoffs in a competitive western conference if Curry and Bogut miss alot of time (hardly unlikely possibilities). After which Golden State would putting on their tanking shoes (much like they did in 2011/12)

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  14. #111
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Craiger wrote: View Post
    I think the teams that will refuse to trade their 1st round pick are the probable lottery teams. Late 1st rounders will most likely be available.

    That said, alot of those teams (later 1st rounders) may still wait until well into the season. GS, as stands, could easily drop out of the playoffs in a competitive western conference if Curry and Bogut miss alot of time (hardly unlikely possibilities). After which Golden State would putting on their tanking shoes (much like they did in 2011/12)
    Also the picks are very valuable for dealing in general. I agree a non-lottery team is more likely to give one up, but even then, the way GSW has been run the last couple of years makes me think they wouldn't...partly because they also owe their next 2 2nd rounders to people. So if they trade their 2014 first, they have no picks at all in 2014, and like Toronto this past year, will struggle to get in on any draft night action because of it.

    For non-lottery teams, the pick is way too important an asset to flip this far away from draft night. Like you say, I believe they'd wait til into the season, and see if they fall, or if they need the pick to pull off a strategic move after watching their roster play.

    In the end, I also actually think some tanking teams will consider trading away a protected 2014 pick. I mean, think of it...you know you're going to be in the lottery, and you can add a player you want via trade without that really changing, why not trade away the pick, which you end up keeping because it's protected? I mean, if a bad team (Cavs, Bobcats...I don't know, whoever) traded us their protected 2014 1st (because no team will give up an unprotected) for Rudy Gay....In all likelihood they're still a lottery team anyway, keep their 2014 pick and add a player they want via trade...in the end giving up a future pick for a guy they might consider a keeper, and still getting a pick from a supposedly loaded draft.

  15. #112
    Raptors Republic All-Star Jclaw's Avatar
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    How is that really any different than just trading Gay straight to Detroit? And don't say "GSW has a 2014 pick" because I'm more and more convinced any team with sense will not trade their 2014 1st.
    maybe instead of picks, GS will give up one of their young players they have refused to so far. Just getting that vibe but probably only because Masai came out of nowhere to facilitate the last D12 trade. Probably won't happen again.

  16. #113
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Ah, to be a fly on the wall in Ujiri's office. Right now, to me anyways, it just looks like he is going to bring back the same team from last year with a few tweaks to the bench. We should be good enough to make it into the playoffs and lose any chance of a high draft pick, but not good enough to do any damage once we get into the playoffs. If this is the case it's the worst scenario imo, though I understand he has a lot of work ahead of him before he can undo BC's mistakes.

  17. #114
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Jclaw wrote: View Post
    maybe instead of picks, GS will give up one of their young players they have refused to so far. Just getting that vibe but probably only because Masai came out of nowhere to facilitate the last D12 trade. Probably won't happen again.
    It's a totally different situation though.

    But put it simply, if GSW is willing to part with one of their young pieces, chances are they can do a straight sign and trade with LAL. I don't buy all this smoke out of LA from earlier on when they said they would not do sign and trades. Even the Lakers can't take nothing over something. So far GSW has offered Bogut and a #1 pick. If they cave and throw in Thompson or Barnes, I think the deal gets done.

  18. #115
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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    It's a totally different situation though.

    But put it simply, if GSW is willing to part with one of their young pieces, chances are they can do a straight sign and trade with LAL. I don't buy all this smoke out of LA from earlier on when they said they would not do sign and trades. Even the Lakers can't take nothing over something. So far GSW has offered Bogut and a #1 pick. If they cave and throw in Thompson or Barnes, I think the deal gets done.
    A couple/3 points:

    1) I am not particularly enamored with DH...the guy is a bit goofy to be a franchise cornerstone
    2) DH is driving the bus on his movement and I think will end up in Texas (Houston). He gets a good team and the money. I understand the diff. between the max money/term. in LAL/S&T & a Houst. deal is about 7 mill. because of no TX state taxes/Calif. taxes being particularly onerous.
    3) Unlike with previous regimes in GSW they have among others Jerry West good say keeping them away from the dumb decisions
    Last edited by Bendit; Fri Jul 5th, 2013 at 10:09 AM.

  19. #116
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    I think what props was saying though was the hawks are the perfect example of a middle of the pack team. they can't contend for the championship but they will win a ton of games during the regular season and maybe get past the first round. There's no substance to that, though. It might not be the 7-11 but lets call it the tim hortons in cornwall.

    Like Masai and Leweike said, anyone can build a playoff team. That's actually pretty easy which is kind of crazy when you think about what BC did the whole time he was here. Building a contender is a process, and there's going to be some eggs cracked to make that omelet.
    The one difference between classic treadmill teams like Atlanta from the past decade and the Raptors (if they choose to go the retooling route), are that Atlanta's GM seemed to scared to make any major roster moves to shakeup the core, even when everybody - fans, media, experts - all knew that they were a treadmill team at best. I don't see that being a problem for MU. If the Raptors sneak into the playoffs this year and stay in the 5-8 range for a couple seasons, I can't see MU standing pat and celebrating being a playoff team. I think he'll be much more inclined to contine tweaking the roster, taking the risk to try and get over that 1st/2nd round hump. Atlanta had lots of talent and many good prospects, many of whom failed to fulfill their expected potential and many good parts that didn't fit together very well; had they made a couple moves over the years (before big contracts were handed out, before free agents walked, etc...), they might have become a serious contender without having to blow-up their core.

    That's why I don't like drawing the conclusion that retooling this offseason = treadmill team for the next 5-10 seasons. MU will simply continue improving/retooling this team, season after season, towards the stated ultimate goal of contending for a championship. I'm not worried about an improved Raptors squad - god forbid, a playoff team - peaking as a 5-8 seed long-term.

  20. #117
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    A couple/3 points:

    1) I am not particularly enamored with DH...the guy is a bit goofy to be a franchise cornerstone
    2) DH is driving the bus on his movement and I think will end up in Texas (Houston). He gets a good team and the money. I understand the diff. between the max money/term. in LAL/S&T & a Houst. deal is about 7 mill. because of no TX state taxes/Calif. taxes being particularly onerous.
    3) Unlike with previous regimes in GSW they have among others Jerry West good say keeping them away from the dumb decisions
    I know Dwight is in control, but still, GSW appears to think they have some shot of landing him. PRobably only trailing Houston.

    And I still don't know what West and GSW would consider a dumb decision. Franchise cornerstone or not, he's still the best C in the game when healthy, and they have other quality pieces. If they managed to clear all their expirings for nothing to be able to sign him, they'd have a starting 5 of Howard, Lee, Barnes, Thompson, and Curry. That's a pretty great unit. From that perspective, GSW may even be more appealing than Houston. Houston can offer the better player to play beside, but GSW maybe has the best roster in terms of being young and competitive.

  21. #118
    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    I really hope Howard makes up his mind today. His indecisiveness is grating and its holding up the entire off-season. American holidays are the worst for sports news.

  22. #119
    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    He's supposed to

  23. #120
    Raptors Republic Starter special1's Avatar
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    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    I can't see how any of these are reasons to stick with a player for another full season.
    - 28% is still god-awful from behind the arc
    - his career highs in rebounds, assists and ppg coincided with a career high in minutes played
    - he's never been known as a foul-happy, aggressive defender, so less personal fouls is meaningless
    - a dunk highlight???
    - a flukey, once-in-a-lifetime heave over 2 defenders???
    - A blind man's opinion???

    C'mon special....how 'bout some REAL reasons....
    Why am i not surprised you dont like my own reasons.....lol

    - 28 percent is an 8 percent improvement over his career average and would be fine if he could get another 5% this year.
    -yes a freaking dunk highlight! It was freaking nasty! It shows that he's getting stronger and can absorb contact while dunking
    - yes a game winner
    - yes Rudy Gay's opinion over yours

    Hater

    I listed my reasons.....It really wasnt up for debate.

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