View Poll Results: What should the Raptors do with Camby?

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  • Buy him out right away because we don't want any trouble

    1 3.57%
  • Trade him immediately because we don't want any trouble

    6 21.43%
  • Wait for the best offer to come along and tell him to shut it

    16 57.14%
  • Tell him no, we're not trading you or buying you out, so retire and report

    5 17.86%
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Thread: Camby saga - buyout details in post #100

  1. #81
    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Quote mountio wrote: View Post
    If he is getting bought out (which seems to be the case) - it will be no where near 1 or 2 mm. We will be lucky to get a minor discount of of the guaranteed portion of his salary (I think 4 mm and change this year and 2 mm this year). So .. you should be thinking more like $5-$6 mm total for the buyout .. and evaluate it based on that.

    Its annoying for sure .. but from his perspective, hes guaranteed this money, so he wont walk away from it from just a fraction of what hes owed.
    See this is what I don't necessarily like here. If you want a buyout, well, fine. You get 10c on the dollar. Don't like it. Show up. Don't show up? Stay home and don't get paid. It's his choice. If he wants to play for a winner that bad the trade-off is he has to give up the money. Want the money? Have to stay.

    I simply don't buy the idea that doing this stuff breeds goodwill.

  2. Like p00ka, Matt52 liked this post
  3. #82
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    A post I put on another site that bears repeating here.

    Refers to a question on how much our cap hit would be reduced from a Camby buyout if he were to go sign with another team.

    The set-off for a buyout is pretty insignificant actually.

    Say we buy him out for the full amount. That full amount keeps hitting the cap (4.4 M this year, 1 M next year).

    Then say he signs for the vet minimum elsewhere, on a 1 year deal. He signs for the minimum, which for a player of Camby’s experience is 1.4M. Then the set-off amount (the amount the Raps can take off their cap) is half the difference between his new salary and the 1-year vet minimum salary. So, 1.4M subtract 0.8 M is 0.6 M. Meaning the Raps would be able to set-off about 0.3 M of his 4.4 M dollar salary this year. That leaves his cap hits at 4.1 M this year and 1 M next year (unless he signs another contract next year). See, insignificant really.

    Much more important considerations are a) if we get him to agree to a lower buyout and b) if we stretch his remaining salary.

    If he wants out, and has agreed to a minimum deal with another team (the Raps can allow this discussion to take place if they choose), Ujiri could tell him that he’ll have to accept a buyout of 1.4M less than what he is owed – that way he still gets all his money, but gets to choose where he plays, and his new team doesn’t have to deal with his full contract or his second year. If that were the case, the buyout would be for 4M total, spread out in the ratio of his current guaranteed salary over the next two years. That means a cap hit of 3.3 M this year, and 0.8 M next year. Much better, right? Trick is getting Camby to agree to it.

    Second option, if he were to refuse a partial buyout, is to just stretch his buyout using the stretch provision. So that 5.4 M he is owed over the next 2 years is instead paid out over the next 5, meaning a 1.1 M cap hit per year up until 2017-18, 0.8 M this year if that set-off gets applied. Annoying, but maybe we need the room more now than we will then. Certainly more palatable than a Fields stretch. Still doubt the stretch provision gets used.

  4. #83
    Raptors Republic Superstar Bendit's Avatar
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    Quote DanH wrote: View Post
    A post I put on another site that bears repeating here.

    Refers to a question on how much our cap hit would be reduced from a Camby buyout if he were to go sign with another team.
    Your note seems to imply that it is incumbent on the Raptors to ensure that Camby gets full/near full value of his contract while he demands that he wants to work at another location of his choice. Why does he and his agent not then buy out his contract from the Raptors to choose his new location. Kirilenko in a sense did that recently....opted out of a 10 mill. pay-year to sign a3 mill. deal with the Nets. I am of course being partially facetious about him buying out his contract...but you get how it really should be? The Raptors were/are willing to honour the contract as is....it's he who is seeking/demanding a change. If there must be a buyout it therefore follows that it should be on Raptors terms.

  5. #84
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    I'm sure that this was the only option for MU, or else he would have done something else.

    It's crazy how much confidence I have in MU after the past month bc the guy, in addition to Tim, are stupid honest, so stupid, it's smart.

  6. #85
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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    Your note seems to imply that it is incumbent on the Raptors to ensure that Camby gets full/near full value of his contract while he demands that he wants to work at another location of his choice. Why does he and his agent not then buy out his contract from the Raptors to choose his new location. Kirilenko in a sense did that recently....opted out of a 10 mill. pay-year to sign a3 mill. deal with the Nets. I am of course being partially facetious about him buying out his contract...but you get how it really should be? The Raptors were/are willing to honour the contract as is....it's he who is seeking/demanding a change. If there must be a buyout it therefore follows that it should be on Raptors terms.
    Sure, in a perfect world. In the NBA, sadly, agent and player relations are a big deal, so rarely do you see a team strong-arm a player who wants out. Best we can probably hope for is a reduced buyout in the order of whatever contract Camby signs after.

  7. #86
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    Quote slaw wrote: View Post
    See this is what I don't necessarily like here. If you want a buyout, well, fine. You get 10c on the dollar. Don't like it. Show up. Don't show up? Stay home and don't get paid. It's his choice. If he wants to play for a winner that bad the trade-off is he has to give up the money. Want the money? Have to stay.

    I simply don't buy the idea that doing this stuff breeds goodwill.
    I concur. If he doesnt report than you suspend him. If he believes he can play than prove it and some team will take you.

  8. #87
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    Camby's in a win-win situation atm..... protected by a good contract.

    Is there a deadline for getting rid of Camby?

  9. #88
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    I'm trying to understand what the benefit is for Toronto here. Is it goodwill with that player's agent? Has that ever really helped?

    From what I gathered, Camby's agent is Rick Kaplan. Looking at hoopshype, the only client that Kaplan has is Camby. So why is it so important to make Camby feel good?

    Just doesn't make much sense. Maybe MU doesn't want a disgruntled player? But then why not just tell him to stay home?

  10. #89
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    Take $1.4M off this years salary and free a roster spot.

    Take $1M off next years salary.


    If this is true, I can live with that.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  11. #90
    Raptors Republic Superstar Bendit's Avatar
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    Quote DanH wrote: View Post
    Sure, in a perfect world. In the NBA, sadly, agent and player relations are a big deal, so rarely do you see a team strong-arm a player who wants out. Best we can probably hope for is a reduced buyout in the order of whatever contract Camby signs after.
    Surely it's not the team here strong arming the player! If he wants out he can surely stay home, void his contract and then sign with another team. The nub is that the Raptors I am sure would not mind helping him out there but no, there is much "having your cake and cherry too" going on here...and the league ought to tighten up on these occurrences.

    ps...I still remeber the Alonzo Mourning shakedown.

  12. #91
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    So Camby flexed a bit in his negotiations.

  13. #92
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    I'm trying to understand what the benefit is for Toronto here. Is it goodwill with that player's agent? Has that ever really helped?

    From what I gathered, Camby's agent is Rick Kaplan. Looking at hoopshype, the only client that Kaplan has is Camby. So why is it so important to make Camby feel good?

    Just doesn't make much sense. Maybe MU doesn't want a disgruntled player? But then why not just tell him to stay home?
    What about the agency Kaplan represents? Best not to burn a bridge over small change from Bell and Rogers.

  14. #93
    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    What about the agency Kaplan represents? Best not to burn a bridge over small change from Bell and Rogers.
    Kaplan is a lawyer out of DC that just represents Camby and no one else.. at least based on what I can find on the internet.

  15. #94
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer Matt52's Avatar
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    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  16. #95
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    Quote Marz wrote: View Post
    Actually, it reeks of Babcock, who traded for a healthy Mourning and then paid him a ridiculous sum of money to win a championship with the Heat's Wade-Shaq combo. One can only hope that Ujiri's buyout is much more stringent, but I will still never understand why they don't just let these guys sit at the end of the bench.

    Fuck the PR nightmare, the only person who's going to be painted in a bad light is the player for not showing up, not the team for not paying him to work elsewhere.
    I am sure playing hardball with players is a great way to attract other players. It is crap that these older players feel like they can just welch on contracts but it is not worth the money to add more negatives to the stigma this team already has. In the end its on you when making a deal that involves these kind of possible scenarios. Any layman could see this coming 100 miles away. If MU wasn't prepared to handle this possible scenario then he shouldn't have done the deal.

  17. #96
    Raptors Republic All-Star ezz_bee's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post

    That's a hot steaming pile of bull poop.


    I don't know, maybe Ujiri knew that this was a possibility all along, and just factored it in as the cost of getting rid of bargs.

    So the updated trade is this

    Raps incoming
    Novak
    Richardson (plus the cash that amounts to his salary, or part of it)
    2 2nd rounders
    1 1st rounder

    Raps outgoing
    Bargs
    Cost of camby's buyout
    +cap hit of any of camby's salary that's left on the books

    I'm pretty sure that the cap hit IS the cost of his buyout, even if they are I still see them as too separate costs. One is the actually money, the other is the impact on our cap, which we wouldn't have it that was just cash we sent to NYK.

    So overall it's still probably a good deal for us.
    "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

  18. #97
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    LOL, had the Raptors traded down in 2008 I wonder what kind of package they would have got for the #1?

  19. #98
    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    LOL, had the Raptors traded down in 2008 I wonder what kind of package they would have got for the #1?
    Oddly enough, in 2006*, I could see Q-Rich or Camby as possible pieces coming back in a trade...

    Don't you mean 2006?
    Last edited by white men can't jump; Wed Jul 17th, 2013 at 04:16 PM.

  20. #99
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Yeah.

  21. #100
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    Default Camby Buyout Details Released

    Last week, the Toronto Raptors said goodbye to Marcus Camby after briefly re-acquiring the veteran center from the New York Knicks on July 10 as part of the Andrea Bargnani trade.

    Camby arrived with two years remaining on his deal at $4.4 million and $4.2 million, and the second season was partially guaranteed at just over $1 million ó leaving a total of $5.4 million in guaranteed salary.

    The buyout for Camby will knock off $2 million, paying him a total of $3.4 million. The Raptors are taking a cap hit of $2.8 million for the coming season and $646,000 for the 2014-15 season.

    As part of the multi-player deal with Camby, Quentin Richardson arrived from New York via sign-and-trade, which triggered in a hard cap for the Raptors this season at $75.8 million.

    The Camby buy-out, in addition to the teamís recent amnesty of Linas Kleiza ($4.6 million), has given Toronto plenty of breathing room under the hard cap with a total payroll of $69.1 million with 14 players.

    Now the Raptors are under the tax threshold of $71.8 million by approximately $2.7 million.
    Source: http://www.hoopsworld.com/raptors-bu...6DwTW1h7PAj.99

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