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Camby saga - buyout details in post #100

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  • #76
    mike, prague wrote: View Post
    Could the Raptors do a sign and trade with the Bulls? You know something like Robinson (+ maybe Big scrub) for Camby ( + maybe Q-Rich)
    That adds $4.3M to Bulls payroll. Given how cheap they are, no, I don't see it especially when that $4.3M will cost around $13M total with tax.

    Richardson can't be traded until December 15th.

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    • #77
      This stinks. Really stinks.

      If Camby is not giving up the $1M hit next year and some (or all!) money of this season, it really stinks.

      Guaranteed money is a contract. Show up is part of that contract no?

      My stance is unless you are giving up money you show up and earn the pay cheque. Getting traded is part of the profession. If you can't be dealt by deadline, you will be released before March 1st to make you playoff eligible to join whatever team you want.

      I can't tell you how pissed this makes me. It is a matter of principle.

      Comment


      • #78
        ezz_bee wrote: View Post
        I have no problem with the kleiza amnesty, but buying out Camby afterwards. It just reeks like a coangelo move.
        Actually, it reeks of Babcock, who traded for a healthy Mourning and then paid him a ridiculous sum of money to win a championship with the Heat's Wade-Shaq combo. One can only hope that Ujiri's buyout is much more stringent, but I will still never understand why they don't just let these guys sit at the end of the bench.

        Fuck the PR nightmare, the only person who's going to be painted in a bad light is the player for not showing up, not the team for not paying him to work elsewhere.

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        • #79
          Time to play hardball MU!!!
          Heir, Prince of Cambridge

          If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

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          • #80
            mountio wrote: View Post
            If he is getting bought out (which seems to be the case) - it will be no where near 1 or 2 mm. We will be lucky to get a minor discount of of the guaranteed portion of his salary (I think 4 mm and change this year and 2 mm this year). So .. you should be thinking more like $5-$6 mm total for the buyout .. and evaluate it based on that.

            Its annoying for sure .. but from his perspective, hes guaranteed this money, so he wont walk away from it from just a fraction of what hes owed.
            Isnt it guaranteed that he should work for it as well? This is a bizzaro world of work & pay "rules" that the players and agents seem to feel entitled about and live in sometimes using the threat of future delivery of clientele to uncooperative teams. MU should do what is best for the team and while I understand Camby's wants he should be prepared to pay for them.

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            • #81
              mountio wrote: View Post
              If he is getting bought out (which seems to be the case) - it will be no where near 1 or 2 mm. We will be lucky to get a minor discount of of the guaranteed portion of his salary (I think 4 mm and change this year and 2 mm this year). So .. you should be thinking more like $5-$6 mm total for the buyout .. and evaluate it based on that.

              Its annoying for sure .. but from his perspective, hes guaranteed this money, so he wont walk away from it from just a fraction of what hes owed.
              See this is what I don't necessarily like here. If you want a buyout, well, fine. You get 10c on the dollar. Don't like it. Show up. Don't show up? Stay home and don't get paid. It's his choice. If he wants to play for a winner that bad the trade-off is he has to give up the money. Want the money? Have to stay.

              I simply don't buy the idea that doing this stuff breeds goodwill.

              Comment


              • #82
                A post I put on another site that bears repeating here.

                Refers to a question on how much our cap hit would be reduced from a Camby buyout if he were to go sign with another team.

                The set-off for a buyout is pretty insignificant actually.

                Say we buy him out for the full amount. That full amount keeps hitting the cap (4.4 M this year, 1 M next year).

                Then say he signs for the vet minimum elsewhere, on a 1 year deal. He signs for the minimum, which for a player of Camby’s experience is 1.4M. Then the set-off amount (the amount the Raps can take off their cap) is half the difference between his new salary and the 1-year vet minimum salary. So, 1.4M subtract 0.8 M is 0.6 M. Meaning the Raps would be able to set-off about 0.3 M of his 4.4 M dollar salary this year. That leaves his cap hits at 4.1 M this year and 1 M next year (unless he signs another contract next year). See, insignificant really.

                Much more important considerations are a) if we get him to agree to a lower buyout and b) if we stretch his remaining salary.

                If he wants out, and has agreed to a minimum deal with another team (the Raps can allow this discussion to take place if they choose), Ujiri could tell him that he’ll have to accept a buyout of 1.4M less than what he is owed – that way he still gets all his money, but gets to choose where he plays, and his new team doesn’t have to deal with his full contract or his second year. If that were the case, the buyout would be for 4M total, spread out in the ratio of his current guaranteed salary over the next two years. That means a cap hit of 3.3 M this year, and 0.8 M next year. Much better, right? Trick is getting Camby to agree to it.

                Second option, if he were to refuse a partial buyout, is to just stretch his buyout using the stretch provision. So that 5.4 M he is owed over the next 2 years is instead paid out over the next 5, meaning a 1.1 M cap hit per year up until 2017-18, 0.8 M this year if that set-off gets applied. Annoying, but maybe we need the room more now than we will then. Certainly more palatable than a Fields stretch. Still doubt the stretch provision gets used.
                twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                • #83
                  DanH wrote: View Post
                  A post I put on another site that bears repeating here.

                  Refers to a question on how much our cap hit would be reduced from a Camby buyout if he were to go sign with another team.
                  Your note seems to imply that it is incumbent on the Raptors to ensure that Camby gets full/near full value of his contract while he demands that he wants to work at another location of his choice. Why does he and his agent not then buy out his contract from the Raptors to choose his new location. Kirilenko in a sense did that recently....opted out of a 10 mill. pay-year to sign a3 mill. deal with the Nets. I am of course being partially facetious about him buying out his contract...but you get how it really should be? The Raptors were/are willing to honour the contract as is....it's he who is seeking/demanding a change. If there must be a buyout it therefore follows that it should be on Raptors terms.

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                  • #84
                    I'm sure that this was the only option for MU, or else he would have done something else.

                    It's crazy how much confidence I have in MU after the past month bc the guy, in addition to Tim, are stupid honest, so stupid, it's smart.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Bendit wrote: View Post
                      Your note seems to imply that it is incumbent on the Raptors to ensure that Camby gets full/near full value of his contract while he demands that he wants to work at another location of his choice. Why does he and his agent not then buy out his contract from the Raptors to choose his new location. Kirilenko in a sense did that recently....opted out of a 10 mill. pay-year to sign a3 mill. deal with the Nets. I am of course being partially facetious about him buying out his contract...but you get how it really should be? The Raptors were/are willing to honour the contract as is....it's he who is seeking/demanding a change. If there must be a buyout it therefore follows that it should be on Raptors terms.
                      Sure, in a perfect world. In the NBA, sadly, agent and player relations are a big deal, so rarely do you see a team strong-arm a player who wants out. Best we can probably hope for is a reduced buyout in the order of whatever contract Camby signs after.
                      twitter.com/dhackett1565

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        slaw wrote: View Post
                        See this is what I don't necessarily like here. If you want a buyout, well, fine. You get 10c on the dollar. Don't like it. Show up. Don't show up? Stay home and don't get paid. It's his choice. If he wants to play for a winner that bad the trade-off is he has to give up the money. Want the money? Have to stay.

                        I simply don't buy the idea that doing this stuff breeds goodwill.
                        I concur. If he doesnt report than you suspend him. If he believes he can play than prove it and some team will take you.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Camby's in a win-win situation atm..... protected by a good contract.

                          Is there a deadline for getting rid of Camby?

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                          • #88
                            I'm trying to understand what the benefit is for Toronto here. Is it goodwill with that player's agent? Has that ever really helped?

                            From what I gathered, Camby's agent is Rick Kaplan. Looking at hoopshype, the only client that Kaplan has is Camby. So why is it so important to make Camby feel good?

                            Just doesn't make much sense. Maybe MU doesn't want a disgruntled player? But then why not just tell him to stay home?

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                            • #89



                              Take $1.4M off this years salary and free a roster spot.

                              Take $1M off next years salary.


                              If this is true, I can live with that.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                DanH wrote: View Post
                                Sure, in a perfect world. In the NBA, sadly, agent and player relations are a big deal, so rarely do you see a team strong-arm a player who wants out. Best we can probably hope for is a reduced buyout in the order of whatever contract Camby signs after.
                                Surely it's not the team here strong arming the player! If he wants out he can surely stay home, void his contract and then sign with another team. The nub is that the Raptors I am sure would not mind helping him out there but no, there is much "having your cake and cherry too" going on here...and the league ought to tighten up on these occurrences.

                                ps...I still remeber the Alonzo Mourning shakedown.

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