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Thread: Available PFs and FAs

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic All-Star Mr.Z's Avatar
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    Quote octothorp wrote: View Post
    I think Hickson will get more than the MLE that the Raptors could offer him; a 24-year-old averaging 12-and-10 in less than 30 minutes should at the least command 6 or 7 million on the FA market (Currently at $4 million but obviously in line for a raise). I guess my problem with Hickson is that he's not necessarily good enough to be a big improvement over Amir. He doesn't really bring more experience or more youth than Amir. He brings a slightly, but not drastically different game, and it's hard to say whether one or the other is a better guy to have alongside JV. Having two Amir-type players isn't necessarily a bad thing, though.

    I don't see any way the Raptors can really upgrade starting PF this year. I'm okay to roll with Amir another season, and try to find an interesting project with upside to put as third big.
    Wouldn't you rather have two Amir's than one Amir?

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Shocked that Brandan Wright and Hickson is still available. I like Wright.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

  3. #23
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    If you could get Monroe for gay that would be a steal! Slide Monroe to the 4 and our centre/pf positions are filled for the next ten years. Monroe is 23 and has averaged 16 and 10 pretty much the last 2 years. So why would Detroit trade him?

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    Quote Evia99 wrote: View Post
    If you could get Monroe for gay that would be a steal! Slide Monroe to the 4 and our centre/pf positions are filled for the next ten years. Monroe is 23 and has averaged 16 and 10 pretty much the last 2 years. So why would Detroit trade him?
    Because Josh Smith is better at the 4 than at the 3, and right now their frontcourt is designed to have Smith at the 3, which is not the best idea because Smith's jumpers are awful and 3s take a lot of them.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Bendit's Avatar
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    Frankly, I am surprised so many on the board wanting Ujiri to do deals to get the Raptors into the playoffs. Has he indicated this in any way? He has actually said and done nothing other than get rid of AB essentially for futures..... including getting even second tier f/as which tells me that he at best hasnt made up his mind and probably still looking to take a pass on the coming season with a few futures in pocket. I think he is bottom feeding right now. I think we shall have a better idea once July 10th comes around and most teams have done their f/a frenzy feeding. He seems to be in no hurry and I like it. The anti Colangelo who would rush in and be pressured to make deals seemingly overpaying and unsuited.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Quote magoon wrote: View Post
    Because Josh Smith is better at the 4 than at the 3, and right now their frontcourt is designed to have Smith at the 3, which is not the best idea because Smith's jumpers are awful and 3s take a lot of them.
    I don't think that their front court is designed to have Smith at the 3. Look for Drummond to come off the bench next season.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TRex's Avatar
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    Quote Evia99 wrote: View Post
    If you could get Monroe for gay that would be a steal! Slide Monroe to the 4 and our centre/pf positions are filled for the next ten years. Monroe is 23 and has averaged 16 and 10 pretty much the last 2 years. So why would Detroit trade him?
    I rather have Gay than Monroe. Not just because i think Gay is a better player than Monroe. Because in today's NBA. A wing guy > a big.
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  10. #28
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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    He seems to be in no hurry and I like it.
    He shouldn't be in a hurry. If Ujiri wants to trade Rudy and DeMar for maximum value, he trades them when their value is highest, and their value is highest before the pre-season but after all of the reasonable alternatives are gone.

    Like, take Rudy Gay. Rudy's a fine small forward - overpriced, sure, but teams that are trading for him will trade away some of their useless expiring players in the deal, so it's not so bad. At the start of the season, teams that were looking for small forwards had their choice of lots of good small forwards: Andre Iguodala, Mike Dunleavy, Kyle Korver, Chase Budlinger, Al-Farouq Aminu, Dorell Wright, Matt Barnes, Martell Webster... but they've all signed now. There's only one quality small forward left on the market: Andrei Kirilenko, and AK47 is getting older and has injury concerns. After he signs, who's left? Corey Brewer? Carlos Delfino? Those guys aren't in Rudy's league - heck, AK47 isn't in Rudy's league. Or maybe you sign Alan Anderson because LAFFS.

    Go over to shooting guard and it's worse. Still quite a few teams who need a starting SG, and the pickings are slim now. Manu, JR Smith, K-Mart, Tyreke Evans, JJ Redick, OJ Mayo, Tony Allen - all gone. What's left? Monta Ellis (an ego-driven chucker and locker-room cancer), Gerald Henderson (restricted free agent to Charlotte, so either you overpay for him or Charlotte gets him) and Nick Young (is Nick Young). DeMar is a better option by far than Ellis or Young - I mean, Ellis has peaked, DeMar probably has upside left, and they offer about the same strength except Ellis will probably want more money anyway.

    Patience was the way to go to maximize Rudy and DeMar's trade value, assuming Ujiri is considering moving them. (The trick is making sure not to wait TOO long if you want to trade them, because ideally you want to trade with a non-capped team so you don't have to play salary-balance.)

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  12. #29
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    Frankly, I am surprised so many on the board wanting Ujiri to do deals to get the Raptors into the playoffs. Has he indicated this in any way? He has actually said and done nothing other than get rid of AB essentially for futures..... including getting even second tier f/as which tells me that he at best hasnt made up his mind and probably still looking to take a pass on the coming season with a few futures in pocket. I think he is bottom feeding right now. I think we shall have a better idea once July 10th comes around and most teams have done their f/a frenzy feeding. He seems to be in no hurry and I like it. The anti Colangelo who would rush in and be pressured to make deals seemingly overpaying and unsuited.
    Nailed it.

    I agree.

    Once the big free agents are signed and those who struck out or are looking for more come calling, it will get interesting.

    Ujiri really has not shown his cards yet as there have been minimal moves and no leaks or rumours.

    Teams such as Cleveland, Detroit, and Charlotte (as examples) have shown their cards and they are all in.
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  13. #30
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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    I rather have Gay than Monroe. Not just because i think Gay is a better player than Monroe. Because in today's NBA. A wing guy > a big.
    I don't get that idea, that a wing is better or more needed than a big guy. I think it's completely backwards. The problem is that the talentpool for big guys is much smaller and hence there are less super talented big guys.

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  15. #31
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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    ...I think he is bottom feeding right now...
    Exactly. And waiting for great opportunities, He is in no rush to get into the playoffs or to contend for a finals spot. I think he is intent on building assets and waiting for chances to pick up talent when it is undervalued or involved in a fire sale situation. At the same time he is waiting until HIS assets are highly valued. Optimum situation is when both occur at the same time. I think Uijiri loves optimum situations.

  16. #32
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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    Frankly, I am surprised so many on the board wanting Ujiri to do deals to get the Raptors into the playoffs. Has he indicated this in any way? He has actually said and done nothing other than get rid of AB essentially for futures..... including getting even second tier f/as which tells me that he at best hasnt made up his mind and probably still looking to take a pass on the coming season with a few futures in pocket. I think he is bottom feeding right now. I think we shall have a better idea once July 10th comes around and most teams have done their f/a frenzy feeding. He seems to be in no hurry and I like it. The anti Colangelo who would rush in and be pressured to make deals seemingly overpaying and unsuited.

    He definitely has made up his mind only we don't what's on his mind. The AB deal is not a clear indication but as you say, we'll find out in a few days. Considering MLE has not been used, I hope tanking is the plan but we'll see.
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  17. #33
    Raptors Republic All-Star Balls of Steel's Avatar
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    Come to think of it, forget the FA's for a second. What are we going to do with the wing problem (DD, Ross, Fields, Kleiza, Gay, Novak, Richardson)? We're like the David Khan of wings.
    “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

  18. #34
    Raptors Republic Veteran Bendit's Avatar
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    The term "tanking" has become tiresome really....which I shall agree is a purposeful and premeditated loss of games with the express reason to achieve a good/better draft position. Is Boston tanking? I believe not. They are rebuilding. They are selling assets for which they are receiving what in their view (mix of players & draft choices) is the best strategy towards creating a new team in the image of one they are accustomed to.

    The by-product of this strategy is that along the way they are going to have to endure a losing season or two. Is this called "tanking"? I reject the term in these circumstances. The classic use of the "tank" was what happened (and did not happen for the Raptors) in the 2011-2012 season when teams laid down towards the end of season to achieve better draft lottery balls while DC & BC played their best available team and players padded their stats in the face of of what was some blatant lie downs....resulting in a Ross instead of a Barnes or Lillard. And then compounded by not selecting Drummond.

    My own opinion is that the Raptors as constituted is not a very good collection and that if MU agrees with that assessment and decides that it would be easier/quicker to do a makeover/rebuild by selling off assets....this is not a tanking. The Boston example is slightly different in that their assets have reached an age-expiry limit in their view rather than the mismatch/not good enough view in TO. We have been constantly decrying how Boston keeps beating up on TO...well now is a chance to strategize similarly with one of the best and beat them in the rebuild about to occur. I am assuming of course and hope that is the path MU will take.

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  20. #35
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    raped is a little strong, you have to give something up to get something, if Monroe keeps going like he is now he might be the best player in that deal and i think he would make a nice combo with Valanciunas, Monroe had 16 ppg and 9.6 reb in his third year so saying we get raped is ridiculous Rudy Gay had 18 ppg and 6 reb, plus Monroe only makes 3.2 mill and Rudy makes 18
    i guarantee that is the type of deal MU is looking to make

    now that i checked the stats i would make that trade for sure those two would be one of the best frontcourt pairings in the league and we would keep all our young players with an eye to next years draft

    Edit: i think Monroe is probably the best player in that deal right now and we would have 17 mill coming off the books at the end of the year instead of waiting one more for Rudy to clear, i like Gay as much as anyone we have but i bet you right now that he leaves after his contract is done, same with Lowry, if you want to hitch the team's future to those two players i think you need to give your head a shake...
    Last edited by aaron.in.toronto; Sun Jul 7th, 2013 at 03:27 PM.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote aaron.in.toronto wrote: View Post
    raped is a little strong, you have to give something up to get something, if Monroe keeps going like he is now he might be the best player in that deal and i think he would make a nice combo with Valanciunas, Monroe had 16 ppg and 9.6 reb in his third year so saying we get raped is ridiculous Rudy Gay had 18 ppg and 6 reb, plus Monroe only makes 3.2 mill and Rudy makes 18
    i guarantee that is the type of deal MU is looking to make

    now that i checked the stats i would make that trade for sure those two would be one of the best frontcourt pairings in the league and we would keep all our young players with an eye to next years draft

    Edit: i think Monroe is probably the best player in that deal right now and we would have 17 mill coming off the books at the end of the year instead of waiting one more for Rudy to clear, i like Gay as much as anyone we have but i bet you right now that he leaves after his contract is done, same with Lowry, if you want to hitch the team's future to those two players i think you need to give your head a shake...
    Raped might be strong. Definitely aggravated sexual assault though

    Your rationale is great on Rudy vs. Monroe but you also gave them a starting PG for a guy who is looking more and more like a combo guard off the bench in Knight.

    If you want to do a deal for Monroe/filler and Gay, I could get behind that. Not so much support for throwing in Lowry without getting more assets back.
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    Quote Soft Euro wrote: View Post
    I don't get that idea, that a wing is better or more needed than a big guy. I think it's completely backwards. The problem is that the talentpool for big guys is much smaller and hence there are less super talented big guys.
    agreed and the money must be taken into consideration, if you were the GM of Memphis would you have kept Gay and traded Marc Gasol?

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Raped might be strong. Definitely aggravated sexual assault though

    Your rationale is great on Rudy vs. Monroe but you also gave them a starting PG for a guy who is looking more and more like a combo guard off the bench in Knight.

    If you want to do a deal for Monroe/filler and Gay, I could get behind that. Not so much support for throwing in Lowry without getting more assets back.
    thats fine, i really liked Lowry when we got him and i cant wait to see if he can turn it around this year, i just think that the deal is more realistic this way because they have to take the Gay contract...if they really offered those two scrubs for Gay then we would be giving them Lowry and a protected pick and they throw in Monroe and Knight... i think you are not giving Monroe the value he holds as a younger player looking good with a tiny contract, also i just cant see a long term future with Gay and Lowry on the team now that MU is the GM, do you really see us signing both of them once their deals expire?
    I think it would be a good idea to do a Lowry ext. sooner rather then later if he starts playing d

    i just watched Orlando in summer league(...i know it is summer league and is basically nothing to base anything off, but...) i really like Moe Harkless and Nicholson(not sure if thats how it's spelt...), would you do DD for Afflalo, harkless, and Nichlson?

    Edit: if we were really trying to trade DD for Bledsoe (a deal i was hoping for...) i think MU wants Lowry gone, also knight had 13.3 ppg 3.3 reb and 4.0 ast in this his second year, while Lowry had 11.6 4.7 and 6.4 which is better but not much and in lowry's second year he had 9.6 3.1 and 3.2 so how Knight looks like a back-up and Lowry looks like starter is not really making that much sense to me, because he had more assists i guess...Knight also makes half the money that Lowry does and Knight shot 0.5 % better from three point range
    Last edited by aaron.in.toronto; Sun Jul 7th, 2013 at 04:21 PM.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TRex's Avatar
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    Quote Soft Euro wrote: View Post
    I don't get that idea, that a wing is better or more needed than a big guy. I think it's completely backwards. The problem is that the talentpool for big guys is much smaller and hence there are less super talented big guys.
    The NBA have become a guards league. This is not the 80's or the 90's. In today's NBA you gotta have a great wing guy to succeed. A guy that can create his own shot and close out games.

    I rather have a combo of JV + Gay than JV + Monroe.
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    Quote TRex wrote: View Post
    The NBA have become a guards league. This is not the 80's or the 90's. In today's NBA you gotta have a great wing guy to succeed. A guy that can create his own shot and close out games.
    I rather have a combo of JV + Gay than JV + Monroe.
    Partially correct:
    Look at 3 out of 4 this years semi-finalists:
    1. Spurs (Duncan, Splitter & Kawai)
    2. Memphis (Gasol & ZBo)
    3. Indiana (Hibbert & West);
    WRT to Miami -it helps to have by far the best player on your team.

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