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  1. #21
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    Quote draftedraptor wrote: View Post
    JV is overrated around here. He has shown average offense and defense with excellent motor thus far. I havent seen anything special from him yet. Drummond on the other hand is looking every bit the elite defensive C he can be. Val's upside is deandre jordan and he will have to start working hard to get there or anywhere higher.
    does this count as an infraction? do I click the infraction button on this...help me out fellow mods :P

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    Raptors Republic Starter Sam17's Avatar
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    Make him apologize for that Deandre Jordan comment..

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    Raptors Republic Superstar isaacthompson's Avatar
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    How about we stop comparing Drummond and JV, and imagine if we drafted him instead of Ross.

    A Drummond-JV frontcourt.

    Heaven.
    Twitter - @thekid_it

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  6. #24
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    There are huge difference between Val and Drummond. Here's my personal comparison:

    Note: This is possibly slightly skewed mainly because JV averages slightly more minutes than Drummond

    1. Offense - Val has a much better offensive game. According to Basketball Reference, JV has a variety of types of shoots that he shoots with decent accuracy. Here are the follow percentages for each shooting type: dunk (92.9% on 56 attempts), post hook shot (59.2% at 71 attempts), jump shot (39.7% at 126 attempts), lay-up (52.7% at 91 attempts) and tip shot (52.2% at 23 attempts). Andre on the other hand isn't as proficient at post moves and shoots as JV: dunk (91.2% on 145 attempts), post hook shot (18.2% at 11 attempts), jump shot (22.9% at 48 attempts), lay-up (48.8% at 125 attempts) and tip shot (60.6% at 33 attempts). As you can see, JV has an overall more diverse offensive game which would explain why his post hook shot, jump shot and layup percentage is much higher than Drummond's. Andre relies more on his athleticism to score which explains why his tip shot percentage is much higher than Valanciunas'. To look at this another way, we can look at based on the distance at which they scored. Most dunks, layups and tip shots would be points at the rim while hook shots, and jump shots can vary in distance from 3 feet to the three point line. If you look at Dummond, out of his 342 attempts, most of his shots are at the rim. In fact, according to Basketball Reference, he attempts 279 shots at the rim (68.8%) and only attempts 63 shots at 3 feet to the three point line (25.4%). Because of his lack of offensive game and athleticism, he has to live under the rim. JV, however, only attempts 165 shots at the rim (69.7%) and 202 shots at 3 feet to the three point line (44.1%). So it's pretty obvious that JV is WAY more talented offensively.

    2. Defense - Defense is much harder to judge solely based on stats. Let's just look at blocks, and steal per 36 minutes to lessen the skew of the extra minutes. As for blocks, Drummond has more blocks than JV. Per 36 minutes, Drummond averages 2.8 blocks and JV averages 1.9 blocks. This is easily explained by Drummond's extra athleticism. As for steals, Drummond also has more steals than JV. Per 36 minutes, Drummond averages 1.7 steals and JV averages 0.4 steals. Of course, like I said, these don't necessarily say how good a player is defensively, but Drummond is a much better defensive player than JV. This can be explained by Drummond's extra athleticism and added strength. Drummond is an overall much stronger player weighing in at 270 lb and JV weighing in at only 231 lb.

    3. Potential - This is the big question about these two players. One key thing to keep in mind is that JV is already 21 years old and Drummond is only 19 years old. Therefore, Andre has much more time to grow and improve. What does Drummond have to improve upon? Mostly his offensive game. Free throws is one of them and it's something that's not as easy to improve upon. Take for example, all star center Dwight Howard. When Howard started the NBA, his FT% was 67.1% but since then he hasn't improved upon it since. His averaged FT% is 57.7% and it his FT% hasn't been higher since his rookie season. I don't see Drummond improving significantly at his free throws. As for his offensive game in general, he still has time to grow. It's definitely something that can be improved upon. He is still 19 and this is why most people say that Drummond has way more potential than JV. JV, on the other hand, already has a polished offensive game and free throws. It's still something still needs to be improved, but the improvements will come easier to him than Drummond. Defense is where JV needs to improve. So to conclude, JV and Drummond are pretty different centers. JV is much more offensive oriented center that needs to improve upon defense and building up strength. Drummond is much more athletic defensive center that needs to improve upon his offensive game. Both are potentially future all-star centers. I would say that JV has a better chance at being one only because you are voted into the All-Star mostly based on your offensive production rather than your defensive presence.

    PS. Sorry for the really long post. Got kinda carried away hehe xD

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    Quote draftedraptor wrote: View Post
    JV is overrated around here. He has shown average offense and defense with excellent motor thus far. I havent seen anything special from him yet. Drummond on the other hand is looking every bit the elite defensive C he can be. Val's upside is deandre jordan and he will have to start working hard to get there or anywhere higher.
    LOL you trolling? I don't disagree with the point that JV gets overrated sometimes on RR, but saying Val's upside is DeAndre Jordan is asinine. In his first year JV averaged 9pts 6rbds 1.3blks playing 24min a game. DJ last season, 9pts 7rbds 1.4blks in 24min. However JV is shooting close to 80% at the line and making twice as many FTs a game (DJ shoots a sad 42% in his 3 years in the nba). That's why we can close games with JV whereas DJ is on the bench. DJ is playing with Blake Griffin so his rebounding and points production may be affected, but JV was playing with a real productive Amir most of the year.

    If you don't want to talk stats, even the eye test shows JV is already more polished offensively. JV can hit the mid range jumper which DJ will probably never be able to do. And he also has actual post up moves, whereas something like 95% of DJ's baskets are either dunks or put backs. DJ has the edge in defense so far due to his size and athleticism, but JV is also 4 years younger. Once JV gets acclimated to the NBA, improves his communication skills, and packs on some pounds there's no reason not to believe he won't reach DJ's defensive ability. He has a higher motor, good length, and has shown great lateral quickness (needs to improve on reading plays and rotation timing).

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    Quote Blacklash2k4 wrote: View Post
    There are huge difference between Val and Drummond. Here's my personal comparison:

    Note: This is possibly slightly skewed mainly because JV averages slightly more minutes than Drummond

    1. Offense - Val has a much better offensive game. According to Basketball Reference, JV has a variety of types of shoots that he shoots with decent accuracy. Here are the follow percentages for each shooting type: dunk (92.9% on 56 attempts), post hook shot (59.2% at 71 attempts), jump shot (39.7% at 126 attempts), lay-up (52.7% at 91 attempts) and tip shot (52.2% at 23 attempts). Andre on the other hand isn't as proficient at post moves and shoots as JV: dunk (91.2% on 145 attempts), post hook shot (18.2% at 11 attempts), jump shot (22.9% at 48 attempts), lay-up (48.8% at 125 attempts) and tip shot (60.6% at 33 attempts). As you can see, JV has an overall more diverse offensive game which would explain why his post hook shot, jump shot and layup percentage is much higher than Drummond's. Andre relies more on his athleticism to score which explains why his tip shot percentage is much higher than Valanciunas'. To look at this another way, we can look at based on the distance at which they scored. Most dunks, layups and tip shots would be points at the rim while hook shots, and jump shots can vary in distance from 3 feet to the three point line. If you look at Dummond, out of his 342 attempts, most of his shots are at the rim. In fact, according to Basketball Reference, he attempts 279 shots at the rim (68.8%) and only attempts 63 shots at 3 feet to the three point line (25.4%). Because of his lack of offensive game and athleticism, he has to live under the rim. JV, however, only attempts 165 shots at the rim (69.7%) and 202 shots at 3 feet to the three point line (44.1%). So it's pretty obvious that JV is WAY more talented offensively.

    2. Defense - Defense is much harder to judge solely based on stats. Let's just look at blocks, and steal per 36 minutes to lessen the skew of the extra minutes. As for blocks, Drummond has more blocks than JV. Per 36 minutes, Drummond averages 2.8 blocks and JV averages 1.9 blocks. This is easily explained by Drummond's extra athleticism. As for steals, Drummond also has more steals than JV. Per 36 minutes, Drummond averages 1.7 steals and JV averages 0.4 steals. Of course, like I said, these don't necessarily say how good a player is defensively, but Drummond is a much better defensive player than JV. This can be explained by Drummond's extra athleticism and added strength. Drummond is an overall much stronger player weighing in at 270 lb and JV weighing in at only 231 lb.

    3. Potential - This is the big question about these two players. One key thing to keep in mind is that JV is already 21 years old and Drummond is only 19 years old. Therefore, Andre has much more time to grow and improve. What does Drummond have to improve upon? Mostly his offensive game. Free throws is one of them and it's something that's not as easy to improve upon. Take for example, all star center Dwight Howard. When Howard started the NBA, his FT% was 67.1% but since then he hasn't improved upon it since. His averaged FT% is 57.7% and it his FT% hasn't been higher since his rookie season. I don't see Drummond improving significantly at his free throws. As for his offensive game in general, he still has time to grow. It's definitely something that can be improved upon. He is still 19 and this is why most people say that Drummond has way more potential than JV. JV, on the other hand, already has a polished offensive game and free throws. It's still something still needs to be improved, but the improvements will come easier to him than Drummond. Defense is where JV needs to improve. So to conclude, JV and Drummond are pretty different centers. JV is much more offensive oriented center that needs to improve upon defense and building up strength. Drummond is much more athletic defensive center that needs to improve upon his offensive game. Both are potentially future all-star centers. I would say that JV has a better chance at being one only because you are voted into the All-Star mostly based on your offensive production rather than your defensive presence.

    PS. Sorry for the really long post. Got kinda carried away hehe xD
    Good post and thanks for doing the work.

    7 feet and 270 pounds. Thats sick. I was 5 11 and 140 pounds at 19 and hoped to one day grow out of premature ejaculation

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    Raptors Republic All-Star ezz_bee's Avatar
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    Quote Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    I was 5 11 and 140 pounds at 19 and hoped to one day grow out of premature ejaculation
    You're my doppelganger!
    "We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

  10. #28
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    Quote Blacklash2k4 wrote: View Post
    There are huge difference between Val and Drummond. Here's my personal comparison:

    Note: This is possibly slightly skewed mainly because JV averages slightly more minutes than Drummond

    1. Offense - Val has a much better offensive game. According to Basketball Reference, JV has a variety of types of shoots that he shoots with decent accuracy. Here are the follow percentages for each shooting type: dunk (92.9% on 56 attempts), post hook shot (59.2% at 71 attempts), jump shot (39.7% at 126 attempts), lay-up (52.7% at 91 attempts) and tip shot (52.2% at 23 attempts). Andre on the other hand isn't as proficient at post moves and shoots as JV: dunk (91.2% on 145 attempts), post hook shot (18.2% at 11 attempts), jump shot (22.9% at 48 attempts), lay-up (48.8% at 125 attempts) and tip shot (60.6% at 33 attempts). As you can see, JV has an overall more diverse offensive game which would explain why his post hook shot, jump shot and layup percentage is much higher than Drummond's. Andre relies more on his athleticism to score which explains why his tip shot percentage is much higher than Valanciunas'. To look at this another way, we can look at based on the distance at which they scored. Most dunks, layups and tip shots would be points at the rim while hook shots, and jump shots can vary in distance from 3 feet to the three point line. If you look at Dummond, out of his 342 attempts, most of his shots are at the rim. In fact, according to Basketball Reference, he attempts 279 shots at the rim (68.8%) and only attempts 63 shots at 3 feet to the three point line (25.4%). Because of his lack of offensive game and athleticism, he has to live under the rim. JV, however, only attempts 165 shots at the rim (69.7%) and 202 shots at 3 feet to the three point line (44.1%). So it's pretty obvious that JV is WAY more talented offensively.

    2. Defense - Defense is much harder to judge solely based on stats. Let's just look at blocks, and steal per 36 minutes to lessen the skew of the extra minutes. As for blocks, Drummond has more blocks than JV. Per 36 minutes, Drummond averages 2.8 blocks and JV averages 1.9 blocks. This is easily explained by Drummond's extra athleticism. As for steals, Drummond also has more steals than JV. Per 36 minutes, Drummond averages 1.7 steals and JV averages 0.4 steals. Of course, like I said, these don't necessarily say how good a player is defensively, but Drummond is a much better defensive player than JV. This can be explained by Drummond's extra athleticism and added strength. Drummond is an overall much stronger player weighing in at 270 lb and JV weighing in at only 231 lb.

    3. Potential - This is the big question about these two players. One key thing to keep in mind is that JV is already 21 years old and Drummond is only 19 years old. Therefore, Andre has much more time to grow and improve. What does Drummond have to improve upon? Mostly his offensive game. Free throws is one of them and it's something that's not as easy to improve upon. Take for example, all star center Dwight Howard. When Howard started the NBA, his FT% was 67.1% but since then he hasn't improved upon it since. His averaged FT% is 57.7% and it his FT% hasn't been higher since his rookie season. I don't see Drummond improving significantly at his free throws. As for his offensive game in general, he still has time to grow. It's definitely something that can be improved upon. He is still 19 and this is why most people say that Drummond has way more potential than JV. JV, on the other hand, already has a polished offensive game and free throws. It's still something still needs to be improved, but the improvements will come easier to him than Drummond. Defense is where JV needs to improve. So to conclude, JV and Drummond are pretty different centers. JV is much more offensive oriented center that needs to improve upon defense and building up strength. Drummond is much more athletic defensive center that needs to improve upon his offensive game. Both are potentially future all-star centers. I would say that JV has a better chance at being one only because you are voted into the All-Star mostly based on your offensive production rather than your defensive presence.

    PS. Sorry for the really long post. Got kinda carried away hehe xD
    good post. As you mentioned JV got more minutes. He also did not have to share the front court with a go-to-guy like Monroe.

    I still stand by what I said - Val is not jesus christ as it is being made out here. I know it is hard for fanboys and they need Val to be their savior after years of hoping bargnani will turn out to be a franchise center. DeAndre Jordan with post-moves is a big ceiling and Val would have done really well to get there. Remember DeAndre is a starting center , only 24 and averages almost a double-double.

  11. #29
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    Quote draftedraptor wrote: View Post
    I still stand by what I said - Val is not jesus christ as it is being made out here. I know it is hard for fanboys and they need Val to be their savior after years of hoping bargnani will turn out to be a franchise center. DeAndre Jordan with post-moves is a big ceiling and Val would have done really well to get there. Remember DeAndre is a starting center , only 24 and averages almost a double-double.
    Per 36 minutes, Jonas averaged 13/9 last season; it's fair to say he will likely average a double-double this year.

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  13. #30
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    Quote Blacklash2k4 wrote: View Post
    There are huge difference between Val and Drummond. Here's my personal comparison:

    Note: This is possibly slightly skewed mainly because JV averages slightly more minutes than Drummond

    1. Offense - Val has a much better offensive game. According to Basketball Reference, JV has a variety of types of shoots that he shoots with decent accuracy. Here are the follow percentages for each shooting type: dunk (92.9% on 56 attempts), post hook shot (59.2% at 71 attempts), jump shot (39.7% at 126 attempts), lay-up (52.7% at 91 attempts) and tip shot (52.2% at 23 attempts). Andre on the other hand isn't as proficient at post moves and shoots as JV: dunk (91.2% on 145 attempts), post hook shot (18.2% at 11 attempts), jump shot (22.9% at 48 attempts), lay-up (48.8% at 125 attempts) and tip shot (60.6% at 33 attempts). As you can see, JV has an overall more diverse offensive game which would explain why his post hook shot, jump shot and layup percentage is much higher than Drummond's. Andre relies more on his athleticism to score which explains why his tip shot percentage is much higher than Valanciunas'. To look at this another way, we can look at based on the distance at which they scored. Most dunks, layups and tip shots would be points at the rim while hook shots, and jump shots can vary in distance from 3 feet to the three point line. If you look at Dummond, out of his 342 attempts, most of his shots are at the rim. In fact, according to Basketball Reference, he attempts 279 shots at the rim (68.8%) and only attempts 63 shots at 3 feet to the three point line (25.4%). Because of his lack of offensive game and athleticism, he has to live under the rim. JV, however, only attempts 165 shots at the rim (69.7%) and 202 shots at 3 feet to the three point line (44.1%). So it's pretty obvious that JV is WAY more talented offensively.

    2. Defense - Defense is much harder to judge solely based on stats. Let's just look at blocks, and steal per 36 minutes to lessen the skew of the extra minutes. As for blocks, Drummond has more blocks than JV. Per 36 minutes, Drummond averages 2.8 blocks and JV averages 1.9 blocks. This is easily explained by Drummond's extra athleticism. As for steals, Drummond also has more steals than JV. Per 36 minutes, Drummond averages 1.7 steals and JV averages 0.4 steals. Of course, like I said, these don't necessarily say how good a player is defensively, but Drummond is a much better defensive player than JV. This can be explained by Drummond's extra athleticism and added strength. Drummond is an overall much stronger player weighing in at 270 lb and JV weighing in at only 231 lb.

    3. Potential - This is the big question about these two players. One key thing to keep in mind is that JV is already 21 years old and Drummond is only 19 years old. Therefore, Andre has much more time to grow and improve. What does Drummond have to improve upon? Mostly his offensive game. Free throws is one of them and it's something that's not as easy to improve upon. Take for example, all star center Dwight Howard. When Howard started the NBA, his FT% was 67.1% but since then he hasn't improved upon it since. His averaged FT% is 57.7% and it his FT% hasn't been higher since his rookie season. I don't see Drummond improving significantly at his free throws. As for his offensive game in general, he still has time to grow. It's definitely something that can be improved upon. He is still 19 and this is why most people say that Drummond has way more potential than JV. JV, on the other hand, already has a polished offensive game and free throws. It's still something still needs to be improved, but the improvements will come easier to him than Drummond. Defense is where JV needs to improve. So to conclude, JV and Drummond are pretty different centers. JV is much more offensive oriented center that needs to improve upon defense and building up strength. Drummond is much more athletic defensive center that needs to improve upon his offensive game. Both are potentially future all-star centers. I would say that JV has a better chance at being one only because you are voted into the All-Star mostly based on your offensive production rather than your defensive presence.

    PS. Sorry for the really long post. Got kinda carried away hehe xD
    regarding defense, shot blocking and steals don't measure a players ability to defend. serge ibaka is an excellent shot blocker, but he is a poor post defender (memphis playoff series). jv may not be as athletic/strong as drummond, but jv has the iq and this is due to his experience representing his country and playing in europe. and when jonas and drummond went head to head, jonas rolled over drummond in the paint.

  14. #31
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    Quote 2KJ wrote: View Post
    regarding defense, shot blocking and steals don't measure a players ability to defend. serge ibaka is an excellent shot blocker, but he is a poor post defender (memphis playoff series). jv may not be as athletic/strong as drummond, but jv has the iq and this is due to his experience representing his country and playing in europe. and when jonas and drummond went head to head, jonas rolled over drummond in the paint.
    And pretty much owned Monroe too. This is what I don't get. We saw these teams play multiple times. We saw 2 head-to-head (to-head) matchups late in the year, when both JV and Drummond were playing well after coming back from their respective injuries. In both those games, JV was hands down the best big on the floor in both games, and the only guy out of he, Drummond, and Monroe who was a constant threat on both ends of the court, and also the most active.

    I also think it's funny that someone compared JV to DeAndre Jordan, when in fact, Andre Drummond is exactly the same type of player, just with more weight. Defensive Cs who can't hit a FT or a FG from 6-8 ft out. Very physically gifted and can dominate a game in that way, but limited skill set and average ball IQ.

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    Fun fact - Greg Monroe scored more points against the Raptors in their 4 match up's than he did against any other team in the NBA last season, 89 points. He also averaged 4 assists and 9.5 rebs/per game. He pretty much owned the Raptors and anyone guarding him, so it's silly to compare JV to him right now. If there is any chance at all of pairing JV with Monroe I'd be all over it.

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  17. #33
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    Quote draftedraptor wrote: View Post
    good post. As you mentioned JV got more minutes. He also did not have to share the front court with a go-to-guy like Monroe.

    I still stand by what I said - Val is not jesus christ as it is being made out here.
    This I agree with. It's the only thing I agree with though. Guys like DeAndre and Drummond can't even be put in the same category as Jonas.
    Attitude Is A Choice.

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    Quote Mediumcore wrote: View Post
    Fun fact - Greg Monroe scored more points against the Raptors in their 4 match up's than he did against any other team in the NBA last season, 89 points. He also averaged 4 assists and 9.5 rebs/per game. He pretty much owned the Raptors and anyone guarding him, so it's silly to compare JV to him right now. If there is any chance at all of pairing JV with Monroe I'd be all over it.
    Well I was focusing on the last 2 games. Because JV was a rookie, so obviously he still has a lot of growing to do. But even after his injury, he was a much different player in the last 2 months than the first 2 months of the season. And yes, I realize Monroe had a good game in that last game, at least scoring-wise.

    Monroe is a better offensive player, and at the moment, a better player in general. I also see Monroe as a guy who's already stalled in his development. Hasn't added what he needs to defensively, and other than passing, his offensive improvement hasn't taken another step forward. Right now he's a guy that can dominate offensively, but doesn't consistently, and is rarely impressive on D.

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    Quote 2KJ wrote: View Post
    regarding defense, shot blocking and steals don't measure a players ability to defend. serge ibaka is an excellent shot blocker, but he is a poor post defender (memphis playoff series). jv may not be as athletic/strong as drummond, but jv has the iq and this is due to his experience representing his country and playing in europe. and when jonas and drummond went head to head, jonas rolled over drummond in the paint.
    Like I have stated. Stats like blocks and steals don't tell the whole story. Defense is better evaluated by watching hours and hours of film. Defense isn't as easy to evaluate when you don't have the resources like very advanced stats and film, so blocks and steals are all I can really base defense on even though it doesn't paint the whole picture. Drummond's athleticism doesn't necessary mean that he will play good defense. Like you said, player with less athleticism use their basketball IQ to help them play defense, but having athleticism does give Drummond an advantage on defense that JV doesn't have. As for Jonas rolling over Drummond head-to-head, that's not 100% true. Both player have had their share of better games between the two. For example, let's look at the TOR-DET game on November 23, 2012, JV had 9 points (50% shooting), 6 rebounds, and 2 blocks in 31 minutes. Drummond had 13 points (54.5% shooting), 13 rebounds, 0 blocks, and 2 steals in 24 minutes. As you can see, Drummond played a much more efficient game than JV. Here's another example. Let's look at the TOR-DET game on April 1, 2013, JV had 17 points (57.1% shooting), 6 rebounds, and 5 blocks in 37 minutes. Drummond had 4 points (40% shooting), 4 rebounds, and 0 blocks/steals in 17 minutes. JV had a much better game than Drummond. Of course, there are too many factors to consider like whether they were actually going head-to-head, and the amount of minutes played being different. My point being that both players have had their fair share of good games against each other and also that there is too small of a sample size to really say who would beat who head on.

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    Quote draftedraptor wrote: View Post
    good post. As you mentioned JV got more minutes. He also did not have to share the front court with a go-to-guy like Monroe.

    I still stand by what I said - Val is not jesus christ as it is being made out here. I know it is hard for fanboys and they need Val to be their savior after years of hoping bargnani will turn out to be a franchise center. DeAndre Jordan with post-moves is a big ceiling and Val would have done really well to get there. Remember DeAndre is a starting center , only 24 and averages almost a double-double.
    I never really said that Val is the messiah that will save the Raptors. I don't think he's the "LeBron" of our team. I do, however, think that he's definitely talented and a key piece in the Raptors' future. As for Jordan, any athletic center with post-moves will have big ceiling and better potential, but that's the problem with the word and concept of potential. A player can have all the potential in the world, but it doesn't really mean anything if they never meet that said potential. Take Jordan for example. People are always saying how he has so much potential to be a top center in the league. He's athletic; he can rebounds; he can block shots and play defense. But so far, he hasn't lived up to that potential where he can be one of the more dominate centers in the NBA. He has shown spurts where he lives up to the potential, but it's not consistently there. Given more minutes, he's a 10+ points and 10+ rebounds player. Like I said, we can talk potential all we want, but whether he actually meets that potential or not depends on Jordan. That's why I don't personally like comparing players based on potential!
    Last edited by Blacklash2k4; Mon Jul 8th, 2013 at 01:07 PM.

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    Quote Blacklash2k4 wrote: View Post
    Like I have stated. Stats like blocks and steals don't tell the whole story. Defense is better evaluated by watching hours and hours of film. Defense isn't as easy to evaluate when you don't have the resources like very advanced stats and film, so blocks and steals are all I can really base defense on even though it doesn't paint the whole picture. Drummond's athleticism doesn't necessary mean that he will play good defense. Like you said, player with less athleticism use their basketball IQ to help them play defense, but having athleticism does give Drummond an advantage on defense that JV doesn't have. As for Jonas rolling over Drummond head-to-head, that's not 100% true. Both player have had their share of better games between the two. For example, let's look at the TOR-DET game on November 23, 2012, JV had 9 points (50% shooting), 6 rebounds, and 2 blocks in 31 minutes. Drummond had 13 points (54.5% shooting), 13 rebounds, 0 blocks, and 2 steals in 24 minutes. As you can see, Drummond played a much more efficient game than JV. Here's another example. Let's look at the TOR-DET game on April 1, 2013, JV had 17 points (57.1% shooting), 6 rebounds, and 5 blocks in 37 minutes. Drummond had 4 points (40% shooting), 4 rebounds, and 0 blocks/steals in 17 minutes. JV had a much better game than Drummond. Of course, there are too many factors to consider like whether they were actually going head-to-head, and the amount of minutes played being different. My point being that both players have had their fair share of good games against each other and also that there is too small of a sample size to really say who would beat who head on.
    As with most of the season, Drummond got his impressive stats against 2nd stringers most of the time. So many people all gaga over Drummond and his stats, but I'll hold off on anointing him as anything until he plays against starters consistently.

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    Quote white men can't jump wrote: View Post
    Well I was focusing on the last 2 games. Because JV was a rookie, so obviously he still has a lot of growing to do. But even after his injury, he was a much different player in the last 2 months than the first 2 months of the season. And yes, I realize Monroe had a good game in that last game, at least scoring-wise.

    Monroe is a better offensive player, and at the moment, a better player in general. I also see Monroe as a guy who's already stalled in his development. Hasn't added what he needs to defensively, and other than passing, his offensive improvement hasn't taken another step forward. Right now he's a guy that can dominate offensively, but doesn't consistently, and is rarely impressive on D.
    I'm kind of surprised that several people are saying he has reached his ceiling considering he's only been in the league 3 seasons and is already averaging 16 and 10 (almost). It's definitely not his ceiling but if it was that still pretty damn good. He also averages a steal a game. I'd take him over Drummond any day of the week.

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    Quote p00ka wrote: View Post
    As with most of the season, Drummond got his impressive stats against 2nd stringers most of the time. So many people all gaga over Drummond and his stats, but I'll hold off on anointing him as anything until he plays against starters consistently.
    True! I didn't factor that into my thoughts. JV did start most of his games. To be more specific, 57 out of his 62 games played. If I remember, he only didn't start in those 5 games due to his injury. And you are right. Drummond didn't start in most of his games. He only started 10 games out of his 60 games played. He did play with most of 2nd string centers. However, I still think he has talent. People will always go gaga over athletic tall centers who can rebounds, play defense and block shots mainly because everyone hopes that if they develop an offensive game, they will be a dominate center in the NBA.

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    Quote Eric Akshinthala wrote: View Post
    This I agree with. It's the only thing I agree with though. Guys like DeAndre and Drummond can't even be put in the same category as Jonas.
    DeAndre yes,

    Drummond.......we don't know yet. His ceiling could be Shaq for all we know. His shooting numbers aren't good but they were significantly better than his shooting numbers in college. Who knows what he can do with proper coaching.

    but hey.....we got the slam dunk champion............oh god we're gonna be regretting that pick for 15 years

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