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Thread: DeMar's 3 pt shot (and what it means for the Raptors)

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Ladies and gentlemen of the Raptors Republic forum DeRozan has become the new Bargnani.... And that's just sad.

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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    Ladies and gentlemen of the Raptors Republic forum DeRozan has become the new Bargnani.... And that's just sad.
    Yup. And if DeRozan was moved, someone else would take that spot. BC gone, AB gone, coaching and scouting staff revamped, but who is next? The wheels on the bus go 'round and 'round..............

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  5. #143
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    I think the last thing to do is to get rid of Jack Armstrong.

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  7. #144
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    Quote p00ka wrote: View Post
    Yup. And if DeRozan was moved, someone else would take that spot. BC gone, AB gone, coaching and scouting staff revamped, but who is next? The wheels on the bus go 'round and 'round..............
    DeMar is traded kills it on some other team wow hes so good now wow hes an all star why on Earth did we trade him I hate Ujiri *Bitch and moan We have Wiggins on the team Wow Wiggins go to the hoop you are so soft come on hit 3s! wow Wiggins develop some handles bro wtf!!!

    Bottom line fans are never ever happy with anything look at Lebron best complete player in the league efficiency machine gets Hammered by ridicule.

  8. #145
    Raptors Republic Starter jimmie's Avatar
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    If you're satisfied by mediocrity, that's cool. But to improve constantly -- as a perennially bottom-feeding team like the Raptors must do -- you need to address your weaknesses one at a time. The biggest weakness has been dealt with. Now it's on to other weak points, like Demar as a starting SG who currently is a very poor 3-point shooter (a necessary skill for an elite SG in this day and age).

    Critics moving on to the next priority on the list is not hating. It's wanting your team to be better and realizing the areas it needs to improve.
    Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

  9. #146
    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote jimmie wrote: View Post
    If you're satisfied by mediocrity, that's cool. But to improve constantly -- as a perennially bottom-feeding team like the Raptors must do -- you need to address your weaknesses one at a time. The biggest weakness has been dealt with. Now it's on to other weak points, like Demar as a starting SG who currently is a very poor 3-point shooter (a necessary skill for an elite SG in this day and age).

    Critics moving on to the next priority on the list is not hating. It's wanting your team to be better and realizing the areas it needs to improve.
    Is there any way we can have this post framed and placed on the front door of every Raps fan's house?

    Well done.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

  10. #147
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    What is T-Ross's 3-pt percentage for year 1?

  11. #148
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    A necessary skill for an SG the league isnt so A-typical anymore we have fours that dont rebound Centers that are 6-8 PGs that cant shoot but run an offense well. Thats a moot point... and of the SGs above DeRozan not many are good shooters that hit the 3 at a good clip and cant even hit the mid range as well as DeMar, so again whats your point?

    We move DeMar Ross takes his place cool still incredibly raw and streaky, Fields great a guy that has no offense at all.

  12. #149
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    Fair enough, DeRozan doesn't have to be the one to improve his stroke. But three things:

    1. Somebody has to. The Raptors' spacing is so bad, Amir has resorted to working on and taking long jumpers. (But you're still right. I'd much prefer to count on Rudy Gay to hit threes next season. He's much more likely anyway; he's never shot worse than 31% from three.)

    2. Being able to hit the three would open up his driving game so much. As it stands, he takes a ton of atrocious long twos because he gets so much space. Just because we want him to have a dependable three point stroke doesn't mean we want him to play like late career Ray Allen. A few people mentioned it a couple pages back, but all he would really have to do is be able to hit ~35% of 3-4 threes a game and all his driving lanes would open up.

    3. If DeRozan had a three point stroke, how much easier would it be for other players to hit open jumpers against collapsing defences? Amir is improving. Lowry can hit threes. Valanciunas (in his small sample size) has shown a pretty good jumper. Too bad I don't have access to synergy or I'd pull every Raptor player's wide open jumper percentages. Ironically, if DeRozan had a three point stroke, he could create spacing more frequently with his drive.

  13. #150
    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Rapstor4Life wrote: View Post
    A necessary skill for an SG the league isnt so A-typical anymore we have fours that dont rebound Centers that are 6-8 PGs that cant shoot but run an offense well. Thats a moot point... and of the SGs above DeRozan not many are good shooters that hit the 3 at a good clip and cant even hit the mid range as well as DeMar, so again whats your point?

    We move DeMar Ross takes his place cool still incredibly raw and streaky, Fields great a guy that has no offense at all.
    Pointing out that the Raptors don't currently have a superior alternative for starting SG, isn't justification for being satisfied with DeRozan; the two points are mutually exclusive.

    DeRozan is a 4-year veteran starter making $9.5M per season, who has an attrocious 3pt shot, is a poor defender, has trouble consistently using his dribble to penetrate on ISO's, and relies primarily on the statistically worst shot in basketball for his scoring. He is the epitome of an inefficient, volume scorer on a bad team.

    As Raptors fans, we all hope he makes significant improvements this year, after failing to do so the past few seasons. As Raptors fans, we should also raise our standards for expectations of our players, especially a starter being paid 16.2% of the team's salary cap.

    The fact that DeRozan has replaced Bargnani as the key focus of criticism from Raptors fans, should not be an indictment of the fans or proof that we're never happy. What it shows is that much like Raptors ownership/management, we are no longer satisfied simply having an NBA franchise to root for and expect a truly competitive team to be assembled. Too many fans (and some GMs, BC) place their own players on a pedistal and lose their objectivity. This is not a good team and most of our best players have serious flaws in their game, which again, speaks volumes as to why this team is not good. We fans should be more objective and more demanding, if we're serious about wanting to see our beloved team mentioned among the great, competitive and sustainable franchises in the league.
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Fri Jul 19th, 2013 at 01:11 PM.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Sam17's Avatar
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    Quote drunkmunky wrote: View Post
    What is T-Ross's 3-pt percentage for year 1?
    33.2%

  16. #152
    Raptors Republic Superstar Rapstor4Life's Avatar
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    For DeRozan to be worthwhile which Imo he already is there arent many SGs that would be better than him on this team, is be a respectable 3 point shooter where defense has to close out on him and mission accomplished. I mean do you really want DeMar camping behind the line and trying to shoot 3s more than 2-3 times a game? I want him to improve his off ball movement to get some easier buckets now that Rudy and JV are threats alongside him.

    Lowry is a better 3 point shooter (the bet in our starting line up) Rudy is respectable, he can hit them why does DeMar need to improve it that much? if he can hover around 32-24 % thats perfectly fair and beneficial to the team. I think everyone is over stressing this lame statistic that "O DeMar cant really shoot 3s, hes useless lets get a SG that can onl shoot 3s and do nothing else for the team" throwing out all other ways he scores. the offense is in Nick Nurses hands take it up with him to use them effectively and any coach in the league would love to have a duo of Rudy and DeMar at their disposal...

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  18. #153
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    Quote TRX wrote: View Post
    Fair enough, DeRozan doesn't have to be the one to improve his stroke. But three things:

    1. Somebody has to. The Raptors' spacing is so bad, Amir has resorted to working on and taking long jumpers. (But you're still right. I'd much prefer to count on Rudy Gay to hit threes next season. He's much more likely anyway; he's never shot worse than 31% from three.)

    2. Being able to hit the three would open up his driving game so much. As it stands, he takes a ton of atrocious long twos because he gets so much space. Just because we want him to have a dependable three point stroke doesn't mean we want him to play like late career Ray Allen. A few people mentioned it a couple pages back, but all he would really have to do is be able to hit ~35% of 3-4 threes a game and all his driving lanes would open up.

    3. If DeRozan had a three point stroke, how much easier would it be for other players to hit open jumpers against collapsing defences? Amir is improving. Lowry can hit threes. Valanciunas (in his small sample size) has shown a pretty good jumper. Too bad I don't have access to synergy or I'd pull every Raptor player's wide open jumper percentages. Ironically, if DeRozan had a three point stroke, he could create spacing more frequently with his drive.
    @ Rapstor: My God, it's almost like you skipped right over my post addressing every single thing you said before you said it.

    EDIT: "O DeMar cant really shoot 3s, hes useless lets get a SG that can onl shoot 3s and do nothing else for the team" My God, what a strawman.
    Last edited by TRX; Fri Jul 19th, 2013 at 02:02 PM.

  19. #154
    Raptors Republic All-Star JawsGT's Avatar
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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    DeMar's handle is far more important than long range shooting. I'd rather seem him be a drive first, shoot second kind of player. I think he could thrive in that if he develops a strong mid-range game. He doesn't need the long ball. His bread and butter should be at the free throw line with all that athleticism.

    The handle is also important to creating for others and if he wants to be a premier NBA SG or if he wants to be anything more than niche role 6th man on a winning team, he needs that handle.
    Exactly...he needs to spend most of his time working on the things that will make him better at what he is actually good at, driving, posting, getting to the line and a short range pull up jumper. Handles all the way...thank you Apollo! Unfortunately, most would prefer he turn into Rashard Lewis, as if that would somehow justify his contract.

  20. #155
    Raptors Republic All-Star JawsGT's Avatar
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    There are alot of SG's in the league that can shoot the 3, but few with the skill set that Demar possesses. If we need a 3pt shot on this team, we should get it elsewhere.

  21. #156
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote JawsGT wrote: View Post
    Exactly...he needs to spend most of his time working on the things that will make him better at what he is actually good at, driving, posting, getting to the line and a short range pull up jumper. Handles all the way...thank you Apollo! Unfortunately, most would prefer he turn into Rashard Lewis, as if that would somehow justify his contract.
    I don't get this either. And its the same people everytime, with a shitty argument. Not all SG's are 3 pt gunners that shoot 40% on three's, most of the "elite sg" (which there aren't very much of in today's nba) shoot around the mid to low 30% for their career, and also most of them are crappy at slashing to the bucket. Look at guys like K mart and Joe Johnson, i'd hardly call those guys good slashers. Most SG's that are considered "elite" are all shooters, and because of that everyone thinks you have to be able to shoot 3's to be elite which is not true at all. Sure DeMar isn't elite at what he does,yet, but his game is very rare and you don't see it much in the NBA. How many 2-guards in the league right now can do what DeMar does? besides D Wade
    "You never heard of DeMar just google him, the defense don't know what to do wit him"

  22. #157
    Raptors Republic Starter jimmie's Avatar
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    Reading comprehension is HARD, I know, and presenting ideas to support your opinion that aren't straight out your ass is also hard (Demar's game is "very rare and you don't see it much in the NBA"? most elite SGs can't slash and can only shoot 3s?).

    People (at least me) aren't suggesting shifting DD out for a 3-pt gunner. They're saying that, to be an elite, valuable starting SG in this league, you NEED to be AT LEAST RELIABLE from that range. Yes, he has a skillset that includes things other than 3-point shooting. That's nice. But to be elite, to be a starting SG on a deep-playoff team, you need more than just athleticism and a strong work ethic.

    It's not even about Demar, per se. It's about what the Raptors need out of their starting SG. And they need efficient, reliable 3-pt shooting at that spot, since that, along with SF, as that's who will be taking the majority of those shots. It's a simple equation: we need this skill, we don't have anyone who has it, so either someone here has to develop it or we have to find someone somewhere else that does and bring them in.

    Maybe DD will develop the skill, maybe he won't. But to pretend it's not an issue that he can't shoot the 3 from the SG spot is some silly sh*t.
    Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

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    I don't think demar is even a bad three point shooter anymore, he just doesn't have the confidence
    he improved out to 16-23 feet this year and it seemed like he was capable of making them, just when things didn't matter
    its like that line is a force field messing with his head that I think he will eventually get over

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  26. #159
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote jimmie wrote: View Post
    Reading comprehension is HARD, I know, and presenting ideas to support your opinion that aren't straight out your ass is also hard (Demar's game is "very rare and you don't see it much in the NBA"? most elite SGs can't slash and can only shoot 3s?).

    People (at least me) aren't suggesting shifting DD out for a 3-pt gunner. They're saying that, to be an elite, valuable starting SG in this league, you NEED to be AT LEAST RELIABLE from that range. Yes, he has a skillset that includes things other than 3-point shooting. That's nice. But to be elite, to be a starting SG on a deep-playoff team, you need more than just athleticism and a strong work ethic.

    It's not even about Demar, per se. It's about what the Raptors need out of their starting SG. And they need efficient, reliable 3-pt shooting at that spot, since that, along with SF, as that's who will be taking the majority of those shots. It's a simple equation: we need this skill, we don't have anyone who has it, so either someone here has to develop it or we have to find someone somewhere else that does and bring them in.

    Maybe DD will develop the skill, maybe he won't. But to pretend it's not an issue that he can't shoot the 3 from the SG spot is some silly sh*t.
    Who said that? now who's pulling stuff out of their ass
    "You never heard of DeMar just google him, the defense don't know what to do wit him"

  27. #160
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    Oh my.

    Quote NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
    ... Not all SG's are 3 pt gunners that shoot 40% on three's, most of the "elite sg" (which there aren't very much of in today's nba) shoot around the mid to low 30% for their career, and also most of them are crappy at slashing to the bucket. Look at guys like K mart and Joe Johnson, i'd hardly call those guys good slashers. Most SG's that are considered "elite" are all shooters, and because of that everyone thinks you have to be able to shoot 3's to be elite which is not true at all.
    ... To be fair, you actually said "elite SGs" are average at shooting too ("mid to low 30%"), a level DeRozan doesn't even currently reach. Although, to be honest, it took a bit of extrapolation to interpret this coherently. (And I swear I'm not trying to be a dick.) Could you actually rephrase/clarify this?

    Because from what I'm reading, most of the elite SGs are average three point shooters and bad slashers. But then you turn around and say most elite SGs are all shooters? Either you're trying to say the quality of SG today is atrocious or I'm missing something.

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