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Thread: Couldn't believe this when I saw it

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    Default Couldn't believe this when I saw it


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    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    This has already been mention in other threads. Another reason why Ujiri hasn't blown things up. His tweak the bench abd hasnf touched the starters. Thier's potential on this team.

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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    This has already been mention in other threads. Another reason why Ujiri hasn't blown things up. His tweak the bench abd hasnf touched the starters. Thier's potential on this team.
    My bad, hadn't seen this yet.

    The potential is uplifting.

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    Raptors Republic Starter Sam17's Avatar
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    Wow that's really something. We're ahead of OKC's, Indiana's and the Clippers' starting lineups.

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    Quote Sam17 wrote: View Post
    Wow that's really something. We're ahead of OKC's, Indiana's and the Clippers' starting lineups.
    Except Indiana and OKC did it for OVER 1200 minutes! That's incredibly impressive, given that teams basically had an entire season to try and counter that lineup but couldn't.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star JimiCliff's Avatar
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    Keep in mind that our schedule was much, much weaker in the last part of the season.

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    Quote JimiCliff wrote: View Post
    Keep in mind that our schedule was much, much weaker in the last part of the season.
    25 games is not a large enough sample size?

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Jclaw's Avatar
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    Quote Michel G wrote: View Post
    25 games is not a large enough sample size?
    Many of those games where those five played together putting up big numbers, we're at the tail end of the season against very, um, unmotivated teams. Let's call it undecided. Likely not that good but also not that bad. This probably also has to do with that stat that we lost so many games when we were within x number of points with just x minutes left

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    That's rediculous. I thought it might be ok, but that is a rediculous point margin for a team that lost 48 games last year and the sample size is fairly large. Still, after Gsy arrived we did go something like 18 W and 14 L, so this does kind of reason out.
    "When Life gives you lemons, you clone those Lemons to make super lemons!"
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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote hateslosing wrote: View Post
    That's rediculous. I thought it might be ok, but that is a rediculous point margin for a team that lost 48 games last year and the sample size is fairly large. Still, after Gsy arrived we did go something like 18 W and 14 L, so this does kind of reason out.
    With gay raptors were 17-18.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    I really don't know why people give this starting line up such a hard time. Is cause of all the money tied up to the wing position? This a talented starting 5. With room to get better. The most promising thing about those standings is that in the top five we have the chance of getting better. Those other lines up can't really be any better.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Michel G wrote: View Post
    25 games is not a large enough sample size?
    The games are not the issue, minutes are.

    343 minutes over 25 games is 13.72 per game and the equivalent of 7.15 full games.

    Then you throw in the last 9 games of the season and it is all encouraging but I'm not giving up the salt shaker yet.
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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    With gay raptors were 17-18.
    My bad, I counted 1 column twice.
    "When Life gives you lemons, you clone those Lemons to make super lemons!"
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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Unfortunately for us, benches play a large role in the W-L columns.

    If only starters could play 48 minutes a night....
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mr.Z's Avatar
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    Did anyone actually think our starting line-up was why we lost games?

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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    I really don't know why people give this starting line up such a hard time. Is cause of all the money tied up to the wing position? This a talented starting 5. With room to get better. The most promising thing about those standings is that in the top five we have the chance of getting better. Those other lines up can't really be any better.
    I think this is why honestly.

    If we had won that coin flip for Barnes I'm sure no one would be complaining right now.

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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    I really don't know why people give this starting line up such a hard time. Is cause of all the money tied up to the wing position? This a talented starting 5.
    Nobody would say that any of our starting five aren't talented. They are. But talent alone doesn't win games: you need a decent complimentary starting five as well, and our starting five don't compliment one another well: we have two paint players (Jonas and Amir), and three players whose primary game is drive-and-slash (Rudy, DeMar and Kyle). No serious perimeter threat to create spacing; it's a problem.

    This whole "best lineup" thing is kind of silly anyway. Ooh, our starting lineup is fifth? Man, it must've sucked for Boston, whose best lineup in this metric was 24th - oh, right, they won seven more games than we did. Well, it sure sucked for Golden State and Houston (19th and 20th respectively) - oh, right, 13 and 11 more wins than us, respectively.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote magoon wrote: View Post
    Nobody would say that any of our starting five aren't talented. They are. But talent alone doesn't win games: you need a decent complimentary starting five as well, and our starting five don't compliment one another well: we have two paint players (Jonas and Amir), and three players whose primary game is drive-and-slash (Rudy, DeMar and Kyle). No serious perimeter threat to create spacing; it's a problem.

    This whole "best lineup" thing is kind of silly anyway. Ooh, our starting lineup is fifth? Man, it must've sucked for Boston, whose best lineup in this metric was 24th - oh, right, they won seven more games than we did. Well, it sure sucked for Golden State and Houston (19th and 20th respectively) - oh, right, 13 and 11 more wins than us, respectively.
    Those teams played better D than us and were deeper.

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    I think this is why honestly.

    If we had won that coin flip for Barnes I'm sure no one would be complaining right now.
    I would most definitely be complaining right now about DeRozan's extension.

    DD is an average to below average NBA starter. The average NBA player makes around $5M per season. The median NBA salary is something like $2.5M. He is overpaid somewhere in the range of 2-4 times his production. In the new CBA with ridiculous penalties every dollar below the cap counts because the ability to take other team's money presents itself. We are already seeing a lot of teams making financial versus basketball trades.

    DD will be 24 this upcoming season with 9700 NBA minutes under his belt. He has already equaled the length of an average NBA career. He has been a 1st or 2nd option for nearly 3 seasons. Nearly 100% of players with that much experience and opportunity have shown what they are. If there was still natural talent left to be tapped, a man of his work ethic would have extracted it by now. Unfortunately it seems quite likely the following statement while harsh is true: he is what he is. All the potential talk is a sad sequel to a recently departed Raptor who had all the talent but just lacked the work ethic and desire - of if we could only make a Raptor Hybrid.

    Here is a fun game that illustrates the frustration with DD's extension. Player A is just signed to a new 4 year, $38M contract. Player B is signed to a one year veteran minimum. And now......

    GUESS THAT PLAYA!

    (all stats are per48 minutes)

    Playa A:

    WP48: .054
    PoP: -1.4
    PTS: 23.7
    REB: 5.1
    AST: 3.2
    STL: 1.2
    TO: 2.4
    eFG%: 45.9%
    TS%: 52.3%
    FGA: 19.6
    3ptFGA: 1.9
    FTA: 6.8
    PPP: 1.20


    Playa B:

    WP48: .056
    PoP: -1.4
    PTS: 21.4
    REB: 4.4
    AST: 2.9
    STL: 1.2
    TO: 1.7
    eFG%: 48.2%
    TS%: 52.5%
    FGA: 18.4
    3ptFGA: 7.1
    FTA: 4.4
    PPP: 1.16



    This is not to say that player A and B should be paid equally - hardly. Player A is younger and is known for strong character unlike player B. However, when you get past subjective intangibles and look strictly at individual on court production, is the difference worth $8.3M per season?
    Last edited by mcHAPPY; Mon Jul 15th, 2013 at 02:11 PM. Reason: PPP backwards
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
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    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    As already mentioned, this was touched upon already in some other threads, but I still need to state my opinion about this.

    Our starting lineup is indeed pretty good. Our bench, especially after the Rudy Gay trade, sucked bad.

    We lost our two main guys that played quality minutes either off the bench or as starters - Ed Davis and Calderon. With both of them gone, our bench was absolutely bad, real bad.

    - We had Anderson who was good for 1 out of 6 games, huge chucker.
    - We had Bargs who didn't play much, but when he did, he shot 29% from the field (Dos Equis somewhere here...).
    - We had Ross, who was horrible most of the time in the second half of the season.
    - We had Lucas III who would have one good performance every 10 games, but was horrible otherwise
    - Kleiza didn't play at all.
    - Fields couldn't shoot.
    - Gray is, well, Gray. He's ok, neutral with all of his 99 shades.

    With Hansbrough we're gonna be a lot better already. Steve Novak should give us some consistent 3-point production. If Fields starts knocking down his shots and does the other things that he does - great!

    My only concern is the backcourt off the bench. We need Ross to become more confident and more consistent with his shot. I don't even expect much improvement in ball-handling and other stuff from him, he just needs to shoot it at a respectable %. Be a spot up, knock-it-down type of player. Pretty much like Novak. If he can do that, I would be happy!

    The biggest problem I see though is at the point. Lowry himself still needs to prove that he can be an efficient starter, but first of all he needs to prove that he can stay healthy and play more than 60 games over the course of one season. Because if he can't - we're in trouble. Our backup PG's are unproven. Already it could be a mess when they come in for some PT to give Lowry a breather during the game, but if Lowry goes down with an injury for a prolonged amount of time - we could be in serious trouble. Then again, I know that Fields, if his hand is OK, could play some at the point, but that is NOT ideal.

    If we somehow could get another PG in the league of a Steve Blake or Luke Ridnour before the season starts, I would be very confident about my Raptors going in to the next season. Especially when I consider that JV will be much improved and, to a lesser degree, also should be the rest of the starters. We'll see what happens.

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