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Thread: Should Tyler Hansbrough start?

  1. #21
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Quote isaacthompson wrote: View Post
    3rd big. With how aggressive he plays, he might be better in just short stints.

    However, this team has always had problems starting games, 1st quarters are brutal to watch. Start him if you really want to, but only for a good spurt... still give the majority of the minutes to Amir.
    Agree with this. Make the other team adjust to the aggressiveness of the Raptors. Bring the aggressiveness early on and dictate the tempo. Let TH work the defense while the others dictate the offense.

  2. #22
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    Quote p00ka wrote: View Post
    Yup. Part of managing a team is managing the psyche of these guys. The Raps warrior that Amir has been has well earned his shot over a Hansbrough type newcomer. No way that should happen. without clear evidence it's better.
    Quote thead wrote: View Post
    I reject any argument outright that says a player "deserves" to start. That is thinking with your heart instead of trying to win basketball games. Amir Johnson deserves to start if playing him as a starter is more beneficial to the team, not because he is a super nice guy who tries really hard.
    As highlighted in bold, there's a little more than "he deserves it" to the point, just as in what's bolded in your statement, but I guess I have to say this a little less gentle then. Just who the fk do you think Psycho T is, and what even single skill does he bring over Amir, that he should be anointed starter over Amir, without earning it, you know, on the court? Not because Amir is a "nice guy", but because he is currently better in every single aspect of the game. It's Hansbrough we got, not David West.

  3. #23
    Raptors Republic All-Star saints91's Avatar
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    People are a lot more aggressive lately with their posts. I think it's time for people to calm down and debate in a civilized manner. Respect your fellow fan, and debate with intelligence not vulgarities. Raptors Republic needs to clean it up a bit.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TRex's Avatar
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    Amir Johnson is probably Dwane Casey's favourite player. Add the fact that Amir is probably the Raptors best low post defender. Chances of Hansbrough starting for this team is pretty much close to zero.

    I'm a huge fan of Hansbrough though. Been a fan since his UNC days. I believe he's much better suited as a 6th man off the bench.
    Follow me on Twitter - @11_RRyan

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    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote saints91 wrote: View Post
    People are a lot more aggressive lately with their posts. I think it's time for people to calm down and debate in a civilized manner. Respect your fellow fan, and debate with intelligence not vulgarities. Raptors Republic needs to clean it up a bit.
    Its the recent influx of dummies we've had. Happens every year no biggie

  7. #26
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    Quote p00ka wrote: View Post
    Not because Amir is a "nice guy", but because he is currently better in every single aspect of the game. It's Hansbrough we got, not David West.
    He isn't currently better than him in every single aspect of the game.

    As for anointing a starter, that's what just about every single member of the republic has already done. Hence I'm raising the question about if Hansbrough should maybe have a say in that. Some people say Amir deserves it. I say I don't care. If Amir starting helps us win more, great, do it. If starting Hansbrough helps us win more games, great! When it comes to a starting lineup though, I only care about results. I don't care if someone is a nice guy, or worked hard for it, or deserves it. If Amir kicks Hansbroughs ass in training camp so be it. If anything I'm attempting to un-anoint the already assumed to be starter

    PER 36

    Points

    Hansbrough 16.3 = Win
    Johnson 11.8

    Personal Fouls

    Hansbrough 4.0 = Win
    Johnson 5.5

    Turnovers

    Hansbrough 1.8
    Amir 1.7 = win (barely)

    Blocks

    Hansbrough 0.4
    Amir 2.0 = win


    Steals = TIE

    Assists

    Hansbrough 1.0
    Amir 1.5 = win

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  9. #27
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    Quote isaacthompson wrote: View Post
    Looked up his game logs. Guess how many minutes he averaged during that span? 27.2

    He doesn't have to start. But if we give him around 30 minutes a game, like in your projected rotation above, I think that's where we'll get the most production out of him.
    could be right. probably means Novak backs up the 3 a bit more or plays very limited minutes.

  10. #28
    Raptors Republic All-Star saints91's Avatar
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    Its the recent influx of dummies we've had. Happens every year no biggie


    More than usual! Although I enjoy reading 99% P00ka's posts. So, I'm not singling him out. In recent weeks I've just seen more bashing than usual.

    I agree Amir, has earned the starting spot, I think he is an underrated player and he has really upped his game the last few years. Especially after the Davis trade. Although, If Tyler out plays him in training camp T should be starting. In all honesty I hope this happens, $3M PF that outplays Amir is fine by me!
    Last edited by saints91; Tue Jul 16th, 2013 at 12:06 AM.

  11. #29
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    Pooka we are essentially saying pretty damn close to the same thing. About earning it over deserving it. I was more responding to the sentiment that Amir Johnson works hard and deserves it that permeates a lot of the discussions and that was raised by a couple people in this thread about him working hard, and loyalty etc...

  12. #30
    Super Moderator thead's Avatar
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    Another fun stat.

    Amir has attempted 688 free throws in 8 seasons
    Hansbrough has attempted 944 free throws in 4 seasons (1 of which he was injured for most of)

    I think there is a lot of value to getting the Wests, Hibberts, Horfords, and Millsaps of the world into early foul trouble.

  13. #31
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    I actually don't care who start either but either way TH will automatically have at least 10 mins more a game than he did in Indianna. I don't think Jonas will playe 35+ mins a game. I see home right around 30 minutes a game, same with Amir. Remember Novak will have minute at the 3 and 4.

  14. #32
    Raptors Republic Starter japetas's Avatar
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    Damn! If you won't decide between Amir and Tyler, I'll be forced to tell D.C. to start Steve Novak! lol
    (Sorry for poor English )

  15. #33
    Raptors Republic All-Star ezz_bee's Avatar
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    For me the argument isn't whose the better player, it's what line ups are going to give us the best chance of success. Sometimes your most talented 5 isn't your starting 5.

    I'm a huge Amir homer, and it's difficult for me to get past that, although I'm trying. I will say this, though, based on Amir's play the last year he has earned the starter's spot. Doesn't mean, that Tyler can't take it away from him, or that Casey can't decide that the team is better bringing Amir off the bench (even if he is the better player), but the starter's spot is Amir's to lose. It's not about "anointing" him, it's about recognizing his talent and production. Which is pretty descent. Although he's close, I personally I think Amir has yet to reach his ceiling. He's only logged 9022 minutes so he's got about 30 games at 30 minutes before he hits the magic 10,000. I think that ceiling is a legitimate starter in this league.

    I have no problem with them Tyler and Amir fighting it out for the starters job, but Tyler has to beat Amir, not the other way around. I don't care about who starts, or even who the better player is. I care about using the line ups effectively to give us the best odds of winning.

    Personally, I think Hansbrough makes more sense coming off the bench based on his aggressiveness and his ability to energize.
    "They're going to have to rename the whole conference after us: Toronto Raptors 2014-2015 Northern Conference Champions" ~ ezzbee

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  16. #34
    Raptors Republic Superstar Axel's Avatar
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    Amir should start next to JV. He has the better jumper from the high post and will help space better for JV down low. Psycho-T should slide into the 4 spot off the bench and have Amir slide to the 5 while JV rests. Either way we have 3 high motor bigs who should be able to keep plays alive. We should get more offensive rebounds this season, which is necessary for our high volume low efficiency wing scorers.

    When JV checks back in, I do worry about how well he and Hansborough will play together. Both are board bangers but will they get in each others space too much? They are smart guys and will likely figure it out, but if I'm the coaching staff that is my biggest worry down low. JV's development on the block is paramount to our team's success in the future.

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    interesting question
    with tyler starting we give up defence, but increase the chances of early foul trouble on the other team which could give us a lot of momentum
    amir is productive either way but I think it matters how much val has improved on d/ tylers ability to hit the jumper to space the floor

  18. #36
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    Is anyone else more than a little concerned that some of the crap he got away with in Indy was because of Indy's reputation(toughness)? and that in a raptors jersey the refs are going to strangle him with the whistle?(metaphorically of course.)

    Although watching dick bavetta turn his whistle into a make-shift garotte, would be hilarious...

  19. #37
    Raptors Republic All-Star e2thed's Avatar
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    I hope Tyler's energy and peskiness rubs off on JV, so he can learn how to be a scumbag too.

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    Quote thead wrote: View Post
    Pooka we are essentially saying pretty damn close to the same thing. About earning it over deserving it. I was more responding to the sentiment that Amir Johnson works hard and deserves it that permeates a lot of the discussions and that was raised by a couple people in this thread about him working hard, and loyalty etc...
    No worries, and my apologies for the aggressive tone.

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    Quote SitnonDfence wrote: View Post
    Is anyone else more than a little concerned that some of the crap he got away with in Indy was because of Indy's reputation(toughness)? and that in a raptors jersey the refs are going to strangle him with the whistle?(metaphorically of course.)

    Although watching dick bavetta turn his whistle into a make-shift garotte, would be hilarious...
    I'm feeling the opposite might happen. He may help set a tough reputation for the Raptors, and even set a benchmark for teammates not getting so many ticky-tacky calls against.

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  23. #40
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    Yes! I am a UNC grad and fan of UNC men's basketball and women's soccer. (The Lady Tar Heels are once again defending NCAA champs). If Tyler starts, you will be amazed at how many ways--big and little--he influences the game. He will be a positive force on the court because he never gives up. There is a reason he is still the ACC all-time scoring leader and won a national championship. Tyler is one reason among many that the Pacers went to the Eastern Conference Finals last season.

    Based on past numbers, Hansbrough could average 16 points and 8 rebounds as a starter. Last season with the Pacers, he had to improve his rebounding, which he did. Now he has to improve his jump shot, which he mentioned in an interview. At UNC, he shot from close to the chest, but now shoots from over his head on the jumper, so it still needs more work, and more importantly, the confidence to shoot it. Also, he can run the fast break. For the last two years I watched him run down the floor on the break, only to fail to have the ball passed to him by the Pacers' point guards. I bet Kyle Lowry will learn to do that in the first month.

    Because he is so aggressive under the basket, expect him to get blocked about once per game. Also, he is a streak shooter, so the more touches he gets, the more efficient he becomes. It's really important for the guards to get him the ball in rhythm.

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