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Are We Still Blaming Colangelo??

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  • #16
    Apollo wrote: View Post
    When the season closed Colangelo had his stamp on every player on roster. He is responsible for that roster so if fans want to blame him for the current rendition of the Toronto Raptors and their failures then they are correct to do so.
    Then give him credit for when we won the atlantic division and made the playoffs in consecutive years..you're going to say you did, when that happened. Which is fair. But, if he's so "incompetent" as seems to be the consensus. How'd he do that?
    If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

    Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

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    • #17
      He just made too many short-sighted moves.

      Why did he cancel the rebuild so early?

      Going all in for Nash was terrible. That saddled us with Fields' contract, and is also one of the main reasons why Ross (a supposedly NBA-ready SG) was drafted. Then we traded our 2013 1st for Lowry. And then during the season he made another short sighted move by acquiring Rudy Gay.

      If he does none of these things, first of all we take the best prospect on the board, Drummond. We're likely WELL out of the playoffs and have a top 5 or so pick in the 2013 draft, putting us in play for Noel, Burke, McLemore, McCollum etc. Let's say we go point guard (likely, since Jose would be expiring and we'd have Ed Davis still). Could still make the Bargnani trade and amnesty Kleiza as well. Fill out the roster with D-League/international projects.

      Now you have:

      PG: McCollum/Project
      SG: DeRozan/Project
      SF: Novak/Project
      PF: Amir/Ed/Project
      C: Valanciunas/Drummond/Camby

      You have tons of flexibility and a team that can very easily tank for the 2014 draft. You deal Ed for a late pick in 2014 (he would be due for an extension that makes no sense with Amir/Val/Drumm on board for cheap. Buyout camby's last year.

      In 2014 maybe you get lucky and get Wiggins #1 overall, and you're free to use the late pick on a guy like McDermott.

      PG: McCollum
      SG: DeRozan/McDermott
      SF: Wiggins/Novak
      PF: Drummond/Amir
      C: Valanciunas

      That's what the team would look like with tons of flexibility in both 2014 and 2015 free agency.

      Comment


      • #18
        LBF wrote: View Post
        Then give him credit for when we won the atlantic division and made the playoffs in consecutive years..you're going to say you did, when that happened. Which is fair. But, if he's so "incompetent" as seems to be the consensus. How'd he do that?
        I didn't say he was incompetent, he won two executive of the year awards. I said he deserves criticism about this current team.

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        • #19
          Apollo wrote: View Post
          I didn't say he was incompetent, he won two executive of the year awards. I said he deserves criticism about this current team.
          I knew you were going to say that. LEtme ask then, if you think he's incompetent? Wnat's your opinion on him?

          Xixak wrote: View Post
          He just made too many short-sighted moves.

          Why did he cancel the rebuild so early?

          Going all in for Nash was terrible. That saddled us with Fields' contract, and is also one of the main reasons why Ross (a supposedly NBA-ready SG) was drafted. Then we traded our 2013 1st for Lowry. And then during the season he made another short sighted move by acquiring Rudy Gay.

          If he does none of these things, first of all we take the best prospect on the board, Drummond. We're likely WELL out of the playoffs and have a top 5 or so pick in the 2013 draft, putting us in play for Noel, Burke, McLemore, McCollum etc. Let's say we go point guard (likely, since Jose would be expiring and we'd have Ed Davis still). Could still make the Bargnani trade and amnesty Kleiza as well. Fill out the roster with D-League/international projects.

          Now you have:

          PG: McCollum/Project
          SG: DeRozan/Project
          SF: Novak/Project
          PF: Amir/Ed/Project
          C: Valanciunas/Drummond/Camby

          You have tons of flexibility and a team that can very easily tank for the 2014 draft. You deal Ed for a late pick in 2014 (he would be due for an extension that makes no sense with Amir/Val/Drumm on board for cheap. Buyout camby's last year.

          In 2014 maybe you get lucky and get Wiggins #1 overall, and you're free to use the late pick on a guy like McDermott.

          PG: McCollum
          SG: DeRozan/McDermott
          SF: Wiggins/Novak
          PF: Drummond/Amir
          C: Valanciunas

          That's what the team would look like with tons of flexibility in both 2014 and 2015 free agency.
          The draft ain't the most trustworthy method, as proven in the past.
          Last edited by LBF; Tue Jul 16, 2013, 01:49 PM.
          If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

          Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

          Comment


          • #20
            There is a difference between blaming Colangelo for his shortcomings as a GM of the Raptors, and painting Colangelo as an ignorant buffoon who wouldn't know a ball sac from a basketball.

            Comment


            • #21
              LBF wrote:
              The draft ain't the most trustworthy method, as proven in the past.
              Maybe not, but having flexibility and assets is.

              We also could've flipped DeRozan, the 8th pick and the 2013 1st to OKC for Harden (basically a mirror of the Houston trade).

              Lots of options when you stockpile assets and maintain flexibility. Colangelo has a pretty good track-record in the draft anyway, if he didnt consistently mortgage our future he could've built a nice team.

              Comment


              • #22
                LBF wrote: View Post
                I knew you were going to say that. LEtme ask then, if you think he's incompetent? Wnat's your opinion on him?



                The draft ain't the most trustworthy method, as proven in the past.
                no one has ever said the draft was a 100% way to win. but clearly its where contending teams tend to find their winners when properly built around them.

                Comment


                • #23
                  BC showed all the classic signs of a gambler. After a few misses, he tried to dig himself out with high-risk / high-reward moves. None of them really worked out. Besides that, he was too stubborn to give up on Bargnani after his rookie contract even though it was painfully obvious that he would never rebound, fight through contact to get to the line or understand defensive rotations. There was also excessive player turnover every year to the detriment of team chemistry.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    iblastoff wrote: View Post
                    no one has ever said the draft was a 100% way to win. but clearly its where contending teams tend to find their winners when properly built around them.
                    And how many championship teams of the last ten years have won with their starting five drafted players?

                    San Antonio is one. Name others
                    If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

                    Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      LBF wrote: View Post
                      I knew you were going to say that. LEtme ask then, if you think he's incompetent? Wnat's your opinion on him?
                      He's educated. He was raised up in the business and he knows the business.

                      The basketball system he prefers has been proven to not produce true contenders.

                      In Toronto he stuck to this flawed approach for his first contract and changed a little on the extension, probably due to pressures of job security. The shift in focus did not serve the team well because he did not make the right roster changes.

                      He's guilty of asking his coach to adapt to the roster instead of giving his coach the players which fit the coach's comfort zone. Colangelo controls who is the coach and so there is no excuse for this.

                      If this were all taking place in some sort of Shakespearean alter-universe we could probably call him a tragic hero.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        LBF wrote: View Post
                        And how many championship teams of the last ten years have won with their starting five drafted players?

                        San Antonio is one. Name others
                        you realize in the last 10 years the spurs won THREE times right.
                        celtics?
                        the heat twice who drafted dwayne wade?

                        so 5 of the 10 champions had drafted players. sounds like pretty good odds to me.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          iblastoff wrote: View Post
                          you realize in the last 10 years the spurs won THREE times right.
                          celtics?
                          the heat twice who drafted dwayne wade?

                          so 5 of the 10 champions had drafted players. sounds like pretty good odds to me.
                          Re-read his question. It was how many team won a championship with their STARTING FIVE drafted

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                          • #28
                            NoPropsneeded wrote: View Post
                            Re-read his question. It was how many team won a championship with their STARTING FIVE drafted
                            what kind of moronic and obviously biased question is that?

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              iblastoff wrote: View Post
                              you realize in the last 10 years the spurs won THREE times right.
                              celtics?
                              the heat twice who drafted dwayne wade?

                              so 5 of the 10 champions had drafted players. sounds like pretty good odds to me.
                              The heat have won 3 times. They may have had more players they drafted in '06.

                              The Spurs are the spurs.

                              I actually asked how many who all starting five were drafted and remained their from the beginning to the year they won a championship..
                              If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

                              Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                iblastoff wrote: View Post
                                what kind of moronic and obviously biased question is that?
                                He asked it. I was just clarifying

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