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Thread: Allen Iverson

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    Raptors Republic Superstar lilmamba_'s Avatar
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    Default Allen Iverson

    Allen iverson...... i wasn't old enough to watch him play, and i got a few questions, even though in my eyes he was the best of the best, or atleast the best pg to play the game.

    it all starts when we were on a subway (yes, its a story) (with the whole class) on the way to a jays game. then all of a sudden some idiot say that allen iverson was a shooting guard, not only that but he was a westbrook (westbrook- a sg who is forced to play the pg position) now is AI a shooting guard or a point guard?

    story #2
    chris brown and rihanaa... some how it lead to chris browns trying to pull an allen iverson. now i wasnt about to let them talk about my husband like that (they had to listen to a lecture evven though i didnt know what i was talking about). my second question was allen iverson a woman beater? please say no..

    story #3
    where the hell is iverson now and his six children and whats up with his house?
    What they got to say now? Nothing they can say now. Mobbin' on the low. Winnin' on the low
    The city embraced me, made me feel at home. The only difference [between Compton and Toronto] for me is the cold. -DeMar
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    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
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    He wasn't a pg. he was a sg, who was the size of a pg. But, his insane speed helped him make it in the league. Wear and tear caught up with as he aged and he no longer had the insane speed. But, his ego was too massive for him to not be a star..

    He was a great player. But, a douche.
    If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

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    Raptors Republic Veteran LBF's Avatar
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    P.S. "Douche" answers your other two questions..
    If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

    Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar lilmamba_'s Avatar
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    but...but he played pg .... but his coach made him play sg ...right
    What they got to say now? Nothing they can say now. Mobbin' on the low. Winnin' on the low
    The city embraced me, made me feel at home. The only difference [between Compton and Toronto] for me is the cold. -DeMar
    No Where Near the South Side #WeTheNorth

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    It's a meaningless distinction, he was an iso guard. You pair Iverson with a bigger guard, preferably someone who can defend, shoot and who will move the ball. Like Courtney Lee or Mario Chalmers. And then let Iverson do his thing.

    Either way, he'd be less of a star today. The game has changed. Isolation basketball is far less important.

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    The other way around, he played SG on offense while Eric Snow played PG, Snow guarded shooting guards, because he's 3 inches taller than AI, and Iverson guarded PGs. Later in his career he was forced to play as a scoring point guard, so the idiot on the train was right.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran white men can't jump's Avatar
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    I think the bigger issue with Iverson, and why he was never as good as he could've been, is that he was a shitty teammate in the sense of building a team around him. He had to be the franchise guy, but worse, he had to be the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th option on offense. The 76ers 2nd option came off the bench (McKie) to accomodate this.

    You can't build a winning team when the leader of your team only passes to other guys as a last resort. The year they made it to the finals, they had A LOT of limited offensive players around Iverson, and I think it was by design, because it's hard to make him function in a system with other talented players.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Default Respect:

    I'll always remember AI the year he dueled Vinsanity in the playoffs, beat a very good Raptors team in round two, and carried the 76ers to the finals that year putting up some bigtime games. Looking back at that 76ers roster, it had no business making it past the Raptors let alone then slugging their way to the finals. That was one of the greatest playoff runs by a player in the history of the game, and the best I've ever been privalged to watch. What he did at his size, the beating he took nightly getting to the line time after time, it was amazing. The man was tough as nails, fearless, relentless, a warrior.

    Had he been a "good guy", like Grant Hill or Tim Duncan or someone like that he'd still be in the game if he wanted to be and there would be no doubt about the Hall upon retirement. I think he'll still get in but it may not be first ballot because the voters are notoriously fickle about the man.

    Pound for pound you would be hard pressed to name a single player more talented in the history of the sport.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mr.Z's Avatar
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    Regardless of how big of a douche he was and the fact that he was a shitty teammate, I owe him my love to basketball because he's what got me interested in the game. Before I found out who Allen Iverson was I wasn't even a sports fan.

    In his prime he was hands down the most exciting player to watch play the game.

    He'll probably be dead or in jail by the time he's 50 though which is a god damn shame. I like to watch Iverson youtube mixes every once in a while and reminisce about the good ole days.

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    Oh he was definitely supremely talented, but he's one of the classic "own worst enemy" examples from the NBA, both on and off the court.

    I mean, as Apollo said, that 76ers team had no business making it to the finals. But other teams he was on, arguably more talented and while IVerson was still damn good, couldn't make it work. The fact that he had to carry that load was essential to their team being successful, but limited how successful they could be.

    As for off the court....guy's just crazy/stupid. That really is a shame. Way too proud....and way too dumb about it.

  12. #11
    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    Let's not forget that he played 14 seasons. A lot of guys, really likable guys, can't make it work. It was management's fault for not putting guys around him which complimented his play. He was what he was, it was obvious he would not bend so they should have worked with that; they probably did but weren't good enough to find him what was needed to build a champ.

    When he fell out of the league it was around the time when guys start retiring anyway. Soon no one is going to remember about Denver, Memphis and Detroit just like everyone forgets about Jordan suiting up for the Wiz and the Glove in yellow and purple.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    i was never a big iverson fan, but i damn sure respected him. as apollo said, that year the sixers made it to the finals he was a complete force of nature. it was one of the craziest seasons ive ever seen a player have. closest thing i can think of is what lebron did this year. he's one of those guys that needed a very strong minded, scheme orientated coach, though. basically, larry brown was the only guy that seemed to get him to play to his talent. it's too bad.
    @jerboat

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    Hey, hey! Wins Produced said he was only the ninth best player on the Sixers that year! They would have easily won it all if it weren't for him.

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    Administrator Apollo's Avatar
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    I don't hear people talk about "wins produced" but his WS (win share) that year was tenth in the league. His PER was 7th in the league. His PPG was 1st in the league. He also won league MVP, All-Star MVP and NBA 1st team.

    All that said, overall if you wanted to just stick with advanced stats and not consider real on court play you could argue that V.C., T-Mac and Kobe all had better seasons than A.I. but of course none of those guys ever carried a team through the playoffs like A.I. Few have. Even MJ couldn't get to the finals before he got help.

    Like Ceez, I will now clarify that I've never been an A.I. fan but I am an admirer of what he accomplished on the floor. He's on the best to never win it.

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    Quote Soft Euro wrote: View Post
    Hey, hey! Wins Produced said he was only the ninth best player on the Sixers that year! They would have easily won it all if it weren't for him.
    It's a crap stat. Look at some of their other conclusions or projections for next year. They just fail the eye test across the board.

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    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Allen Iverson changed the NBA and Basketball forever.

    As I've stated in a few other threads, Iverson was my second favourite player growing up, besides Carter.
    He had a swagger about him that so many players these days think they are imitating by being douchey-self-important dweebs. What they don't understand is that Iverson backed that swagger with a presense on the court that was matched by NO ONE. He was 6'0", 150lbs soaking wet; but his heart made him play bigger than any 7-footer out there.
    I remember one game where he dislocated his shoulder in the first half, and was back by the 3rd quarter.
    NOTHING could keep this guy from playing the game at a high level.

    The only problem is that he KNEW he was that good.
    I mean, ya so what, he didn't like practice ... I mean we ARE talking about Practice ... pratice... practice...

    Not to mention, the NBA invented a god-damn dress code because of HIS influence on hip-hop and fashion.

    But I mean, leading the league in scoring 4 different seasons; Steals 3 different times; MVP; All-Star MVP; Second All-Time Playoff Scoring Average (behind only Michal Jordan)... AI will be in the HOF. Book it.
    Last edited by Joey; Mon Jul 22nd, 2013 at 10:01 AM.
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    Of course he will. Every MVP ends up there, no exceptions.

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    Yeah, ofcourse he'll get in. First ballot, though?
    If Your Uncle Jack Helped You Off An Elephant, Would You Help Your Uncle Jack Off An Elephant?

    Sometimes, I like to buy a book on CD and listen to it, while reading music.

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    Maybe, maybe not. Depends on how impartial the voters will be. Iverson is a nobrainer choice for the Hall, there's no rational basis for a disagreement and delay. Then again, so is Bill Fitch, in my view. Yet he can't get in.

    I think some of the voters see the voting process as some type of purgatory and vote no just because they want the guy to wait. Which isn't how it's supposed to work. 2nd 3rd ballot should be guys who are borderline, like Penny or Grant Hill or Reggie Miller. Guys where there's a legit disagreement about, and you end up waiting some years and put it in front of a new set of voters with fresh eyes, and then maybe they get in.
    But guys like Iverson are obvious Hall of Famers.

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    Quote Apollo wrote: View Post
    I don't hear people talk about "wins produced" but his WS (win share) that year was tenth in the league. His PER was 7th in the league. His PPG was 1st in the league. He also won league MVP, All-Star MVP and NBA 1st team.

    All that said, overall if you wanted to just stick with advanced stats and not consider real on court play you could argue that V.C., T-Mac and Kobe all had better seasons than A.I. but of course none of those guys ever carried a team through the playoffs like A.I. Few have. Even MJ couldn't get to the finals before he got help.

    Like Ceez, I will now clarify that I've never been an A.I. fan but I am an admirer of what he accomplished on the floor. He's on the best to never win it.
    Quote BobLoblaw wrote: View Post
    It's a crap stat. Look at some of their other conclusions or projections for next year. They just fail the eye test across the board.
    I was just having fun with people who blindly follow 'advanced stats'.

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