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ESPN Ranks/Projects Lowry as #8 PG in League for 2013-14

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  • #31
    TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
    Yeah whats up with that?

    Outsiders keep giving props to our players, like the US team selecting DD for their select team, ESPN projecting Lowry as a top 10 PG, JV being given the Summer League MVP, Rudy being categorized having way more value than just expiring contracts and here we are, actual fans of the team, saying that no chance Lowry is a Top 10 PG, Rudy and DD have no trade value and JV, well, he's the only who hasnt gotten the ire of the fans yet.

    Is this really "Raptors" republic??

    Weird.
    For me, I saw Lowry and the other Raps in late 2012-13 and they did not work well as a team
    - Lowry was not on form and seemed torn between the full offense guy and the play-maker guy
    - Derozan and Gay were not working well together - too much iso and not enough play-making including screens
    - JV was starting to play well down by the basket - but Lowry and Gay repeatedly ignored him

    I am going to wait until the pre-season to see if the Raptors are functioning and capable of all this potential
    Until they bring the offence up to a higher level and get coordinated, their potential will not be realized

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    • #32
      GoingBig wrote: View Post
      For me, I saw Lowry and the other Raps in late 2012-13 and they did not work well as a team
      - Lowry was not on form and seemed torn between the full offense guy and the play-maker guy
      - Derozan and Gay were not working well together - too much iso and not enough play-making including screens
      - JV was starting to play well down by the basket - but Lowry and Gay repeatedly ignored him

      I am going to wait until the pre-season to see if the Raptors are functioning and capable of all this potential
      Until they bring the offence up to a higher level and get coordinated, their potential will not be realized
      Everything you mention is a coaching issue not a personnel problem. Gay looked for JV the most.
      @Chr1st1anL

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      • #33
        dwight buycks cleeeearly needs to be on this list.
        Protocall
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        Uploaded a new track: Please like or comment on it if you dig it! Thanks
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        The best day of 2013 was the day I found out Andrea Bargnani got traded.

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        • #34
          DJ Augustin should be number 1

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          • #35
            Remember the ESPN list is projecting next season, it is not a career projection or a career ranking

            connected wrote: View Post
            This list is crazy. If you think of it in the simplest terms (who would I replace Lowry with?) -- Jrue Holiday would have to be in the top 10

            1. Paul
            2. Rose
            3. Westbrook (I wouldn't rank him so high but after seeing OKC crumble without him - he's a game changer)
            4. Irving
            5. Curry
            6. Holiday
            7. Parker
            8. Williams
            9. Rondo (best playmaker behind Paul)
            10. Rubio (dat potential)
            11. Wall
            12. Lawson
            13. Conley
            14. Lillard
            15. Lowry
            16. Nash (a 2 time MVP who can still average .500 .400 and .900 doesn't just fall off the list)
            17. Teague (underrated)
            18. Jennings
            19. Walker (probably could be higher but in a bad situation)
            20. Ellis
            21. Bledsoe
            22. Hill
            23. Nelson
            24. Calderon
            25. (mo) Williams
            Ugh where do I start? I would like to just clear up your top 14 but some of your picks below are just...
            Nash is done. Teague should be higher... Noone else below 14 is worth mentioning, but how could you have Jennings and Ellis on your list? Am I missing something? I digress. Let's unpack your top 14:

            1. Paul
            2. Rose -- injured
            3. Westbrook --injured
            4. Irving
            5. Curry -- does he qualify as a pg for the article -- not sure?
            6. Holiday -- learning a new system on a new team in a tougher division
            7. Parker -- getting up there in age
            8. Williams -- Maybe 5 years ago. Not that it matters but the idea that he is a superstar pg is long past.
            9. Rondo -- injured
            10. Rubio -- hasn't proven himself for a full season without spending huge chunks injured
            11. Wall -- played good for the last 2 months of the season; if that's not good enough for the Raps then...
            12. Lawson
            13. Conley
            14. Lillard -- Looks like he'll have a better career, but that's not what the list is about.

            Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
            I keep finding it funny that outsiders have a much better praise of our players(DD and Lowry) than the ppl in this thread. So far ESPN thinks we have a top10 backcourt. I agree with them too.
            TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
            Yeah whats up with that?

            Outsiders keep giving props to our players, like the US team selecting DD for their select team, ESPN projecting Lowry as a top 10 PG, JV being given the Summer League MVP, Rudy being categorized having way more value than just expiring contracts and here we are, actual fans of the team, saying that no chance Lowry is a Top 10 PG, Rudy and DD have no trade value and JV, well, he's the only who hasnt gotten the ire of the fans yet.

            Is this really "Raptors" republic??

            Weird.
            Just thought that needed to be repeated. We'll have enough to moan about when the season gets going. Isn't the offseason about hope? Am I missing something? New GM? New angry American screaming I want titles? This doesn't create hope?

            GoingBig wrote: View Post
            For me, I saw Lowry and the other Raps in late 2012-13 and they did not work well as a team
            - Lowry was not on form and seemed torn between the full offense guy and the play-maker guy
            - Derozan and Gay were not working well together - too much iso and not enough play-making including screens
            - JV was starting to play well down by the basket - but Lowry and Gay repeatedly ignored him

            I am going to wait until the pre-season to see if the Raptors are functioning and capable of all this potential
            Until they bring the offence up to a higher level and get coordinated, their potential will not be realized
            I'm not sure that we're watching the same team. The last third of the season Lowry was finally allowed to call plays. There was a lot less stagnation, more ball movement, etc. However, you can spot the Casey sets, the ball swings to one side and sticks, leading to a high school motion set or an iso. He only calls variations of 2 plays. To blame that on the point guard is to not notice the repetition out of timeouts. No point guard would intentionally run the same plays over and over and stagnate the offense. More importantly, a guard like Lowry would rather set things off the pick and roll. That's how JV started getting looks, then Rudy started looking for him when the ball was less stagnate,etc.

            The reality is the starting 5 were a top 10 offensive and defensive unit, the stats bare that out. Even if the opposition for say the last 5 games was less than aggressive that trend began early in the creation of the unit and maintained itself throughout the portion of the season they played together.

            The bench on the other hand was atrocious. If Fields returns without a jumpshot, and a proper bench wing is not brought in, bringing in upgrades in Hansborough, DJ, Buykes (potenially), and the new 3 point specialist do not matter. Especially since the coach goes too deep into his bench on a regular basis. The Raps last year only had Gray and AA who deserved anything resembling minutes off the bench after ED and Jose were moved. That's where most of the games were lost -- poor time management of players.

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            • #36
              Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
              Everything you mention is a coaching issue not a personnel problem. Gay looked for JV the most.
              This. It would actually be very easy for this team to co-exist if it were coached properly. For example, here's one change I would make:

              DeMar should be operating from the corner 3 way more often. Not saying he actually has to shoot the 3, but the fact that he shoots about 35% from that area means that the defense isn't going to be able to leave him open, so you can spread the floor. Now the reason why you'd want DeMar doing this instead of trading him for a one-dimensional player like Redick or Danny Green, is because if he gets closed out, he has the ability to take one or two dribbles and drain the midrange shot or go all the way to the rim baseline and draw fouls. Additionally he could post up his man as well.

              Comment


              • #37
                Chris Paul
                Derrick Rose
                Kyrie Irving
                Tony Parker
                Steph Curry
                The only way to bag a classy lady is to give her two tickets to the gun show... and see if she likes the goods.

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                • #38
                  TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
                  Yeah whats up with that?

                  Outsiders keep giving props to our players, like the US team selecting DD for their select team, ESPN projecting Lowry as a top 10 PG, JV being given the Summer League MVP, Rudy being categorized having way more value than just expiring contracts and here we are, actual fans of the team, saying that no chance Lowry is a Top 10 PG, Rudy and DD have no trade value and JV, well, he's the only who hasnt gotten the ire of the fans yet.

                  Is this really "Raptors" republic??

                  Weird.
                  I don't think fans are saying that Gay/DD have no trade value - I think they're saying that it's a combo not worth building around. That's a key difference.

                  The same ESPN also had the Raptors ranked 11th in the East this upcoming season and the homers were ready to storm Bristol, Connecticut with their pitchforks and torches. Now that they've got Lowry ranked in the top ten, a lot of the same people are praising ESPN as the only ones who know what they're talking about. Funny how that works.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Xixak wrote: View Post
                    DeMar should be operating from the corner 3 way more often. Not saying he actually has to shoot the 3, but the fact that he shoots about 35% from that area means that the defense isn't going to be able to leave him open, so you can spread the floor. Now the reason why you'd want DeMar doing this instead of trading him for a one-dimensional player like Redick or Danny Green, is because if he gets closed out, he has the ability to take one or two dribbles and drain the midrange shot or go all the way to the rim baseline and draw fouls. Additionally he could post up his man as well.
                    Spot on. I don't think Demar should be put in a position where he is relied upon to make his own offense. This strategy gives him a couple options that all suit his strengths and don't require him to think much about what he wants to do. It's just a matter of react to what the defense gives you. Demar doesn't have the quickness or creativity (IMO) to be consistently successful if Casey continues to put him in iso situations.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Hennessy wrote: View Post
                      Spot on. I don't think Demar should be put in a position where he is relied upon to make his own offense. This strategy gives him a couple options that all suit his strengths and don't require him to think much about what he wants to do. It's just a matter of react to what the defense gives you. Demar doesn't have the quickness or creativity (IMO) to be consistently successful if Casey continues to put him in iso situations.
                      He definitely should never be isolating, it's not his game.

                      DeMar needs to be used how Rip Hamilton was in Detroit, DeMar has a chance to be a more athletic version of Rip (their stats and strengths are eerily similar).

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Remember, no one just "made up" this list, it's solely based on the rankings of the players' projected WARP, or Wins Above Replacement. I believe WARP is actually a meaningful and useful stat in baseball, but, as you can see, not so much in basketball.

                        Not sure why they would bother making a list based on a stat like this, but then again, it's the off-season.

                        edit: typo
                        Last edited by Vimsanity; Tue Jul 30, 2013, 01:32 PM.

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                        • #42
                          I don't get the Rose love on here. You guys realize that he just missed an entire year with a torn ACL right? There is a very good chance he is not going to be the same player when he comes back. I think where they rank him is a good compromise, though I probably would have left him off the list altogether.
                          Lowry is argualbly top tn, that list is actually ok.
                          "Victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."

                          -Churchill

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                          • #43
                            Vimsanity wrote: View Post
                            Remember, no one just "made up" this list, it's solely based on the rankings of the players' projected WARP, or Wins Above Replacement. I believe WARP is actually a meaningful and useful stat in baseball, but, as you can see, not so much in basketball.

                            Not sure why they would bother making a list based on a stat like is, but then again, it's the off-season.
                            Mind-bogglingly, no one in this thread seems to be aware of this...

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Any list that doesn't have Tony Parker in the top 5 isn't even worth posting. Peeps sleep on him so hard even after a near MVP season last year and being the second best player in the finals before the hamstring injury.

                              Paul
                              Parker
                              The rest
                              LET'S GO RAP-TORS!!!!!

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                I wouldn't put Lowry in the top ten, but it is a projection list, so let's hope they are right.

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