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Thread: Raptors Sign Austin Daye

  1. #201
    Raptors Republic Rookie arctic donkey's Avatar
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    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    And we're not using convenient #s... Daye is better than Ross in almost every single statistic and they play almost the same minutes...

    Ross: http://www.basketball-reference.com/.../rosste01.html
    Daye: http://www.basketball-reference.com/.../dayeau01.html

    Daye has better:
    - PER
    - TS%
    - eFG%
    - ORB%
    - DRB%
    - TRB%
    - BLK%
    - ORtg
    - DRtg
    - OWS
    - DWS
    - WS
    - WS/48

    Per 36 Stats:
    Daye: 13.6ppg, 6.6rpg, 2.2apg, 0.7spg, 1.2bpg, 1.5topg, 43.3% FG, 41.8% 3PT, 76.5% FT
    Ross: 13.6ppg, 4.2rpg, 1.5apg, 1.2spg, 0.4bpg, 1.5topg, 40.7% FG, 33.2% 3PT, 71.4% FT
    There are things that Ross does so better, though. Just due to size alone, Ross has the speed and quickness advantage over Daye, which makes him a better perimeter defender than Daye. (Notice that Ross gets more steals than Daye does). I doubt Daye could guard a Kyrie Irving for an entire game without getting the torn-ACL-equivalent of an ankle injury . Ross is a more capable defender in that regard. Conversely, Daye is much taller. This gives him an advantage in the paint, leading to more blocked shots (although him weighing less than Kyle Lowry is worrisome when being pushed around). Ross trying to guard say, an Anthony Davis? In your dreams. Put Daye on him... Not as bad. One is better than the other at a specific aspect of defending. I don't think that can be up for debate.

    This speed advantage that Ross has also means he has a greater ability to drive to the hoop. This leads to the second way in which Ross is better than Daye: dunking. A dunk may be only worth 2 points on the stat sheet, but the psychological effect it can have on a game is massive. It gets the team hyped up, the home fans roaring, or if we're away, it gets the the crowd rattled up. It can be a huge momentum swing. In the right situation, it can change the flow, maybe even the outcome of the game. Ross is the reigning NBA dunk champ. Meanwhile, it's not everyday that we see an Austin Daye poster. He would never be able to bring that kind of impact on a game. Not a knock on his play, he just doesn't possess that flair that Ross does. Unlike him, Daye is just not "highlight material." He is not a player that most people get excited to see.

    Ross has not used his athleticism to full potential yet, however. His FTs attempted per game averages are painfully low, as he has a tendency to get passive and hesitate from slashing inside. Stats say that Daye is better in this regard at this moment(drawing fouls).

    So it comes down to Ross being better at the athletic and intangible aspects at the game, while Daye excels at basically everything else (stats say so, at least). My point here is that Daye MAY be a better player than Ross, but not at ALL aspects of the game, as Xixak suggests.

  2. #202
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    Quote arctic donkey wrote: View Post
    There are things that Ross does so better, though. Just due to size alone, Ross has the speed and quickness advantage over Daye, which makes him a better perimeter defender than Daye. (Notice that Ross gets more steals than Daye does). I doubt Daye could guard a Kyrie Irving for an entire game without getting the torn-ACL-equivalent of an ankle injury . Ross is a more capable defender in that regard. Conversely, Daye is much taller. This gives him an advantage in the paint, leading to more blocked shots (although him weighing less than Kyle Lowry is worrisome when being pushed around). Ross trying to guard say, an Anthony Davis? In your dreams. Put Daye on him... Not as bad. One is better than the other at a specific aspect of defending. I don't think that can be up for debate.

    Both guys are unspectacular and mediocre defensively. Blocked shots and steals =/= good defense btw, just letting you know.

    This speed advantage that Ross has also means he has a greater ability to drive to the hoop. This leads to the second way in which Ross is better than Daye: dunking. A dunk may be only worth 2 points on the stat sheet, but the psychological effect it can have on a game is massive. It gets the team hyped up, the home fans roaring, or if we're away, it gets the the crowd rattled up. It can be a huge momentum swing. In the right situation, it can change the flow, maybe even the outcome of the game. Ross is the reigning NBA dunk champ. Meanwhile, it's not everyday that we see an Austin Daye poster. He would never be able to bring that kind of impact on a game. Not a knock on his play, he just doesn't possess that flair that Ross does. Unlike him, Daye is just not "highlight material." He is not a player that most people get excited to see.

    Does Ross really have greater ability to drive to the hoop though? Both guys are terrible at getting to the line, but Daye is actually better (1.8 FTA per 36, 0.6 in 12 minutes) than Ross (1.2 FTA per 36, 0.6 in 17 minutes) at it. Daye also converts his free throws at a higher rate. Lol dunks do not mean anything. They're great for the wow factor, but please let me know how much Gerald Green and Blake Griffin's spectacular dunking helped the Pacers and Clippers in the playoffs? Flair does not make you a good basketball player.

    Ross has not used his athleticism to full potential yet, however. His FTs attempted per game averages are painfully low, as he has a tendency to get passive and hesitate from slashing inside. Stats say that Daye is better in this regard at this moment(drawing fouls).

    Already touched on this earlier. Athleticism and ability to get to the free throw line are not directly correlated. It's a skill that also requires the player to be willing to take punishment. Ross has not demonstrated the desire or ability to get to the free throw line despite his athleticism. He averaged 1.0 and 2.7 free throw attempts per game in his two college seasons and 0.6 attempts per game this year. He doesn't get to the line, period.

    So it comes down to Ross being better at the athletic and intangible aspects at the game, while Daye excels at basically everything else (stats say so, at least). My point here is that Daye MAY be a better player than Ross, but not at ALL aspects of the game, as Xixak suggests.

    You have still failed to outline anything that Ross is clearly better at besides being more athletic.
    .

  3. #203
    Raptors Republic Rookie arctic donkey's Avatar
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    Oh come on, at least give me the point that Ross is clearly a better perimeter defender than Daye.

    And also, i don't think its fair to just minimize the power of the dunk to nothing the poster dunk is one of the most momentum swinging plays in basketball.

    For example, remember Lebron's dunk on Jason Terry? They were down 37-48 after Lebron came up with that monster dunk. That play was followed by a 12-7 Heat run. That may not seem like a huge run, but hey, that run could have been the difference between a win and a loss, especially in a game that came down to the last possession.

    Another example: Clippers vs. Lakers, April 4, 2012. Blake Griffin posterizes Pau Gasol. 12-5 Clippers run followed.

    Griffin on Mozgov: started a 9-3 run.

    Spectacular dunks can impact a game. So when you say "dunks do not mean anything," i beg to differ.

    I'm not saying Ross is better than Daye. I can't, really. There isn't much to back up such argument. His athletic advantages however, makes him a better player at certain aspects of the game. Ross can't rebound, assist, block, shoot, or even draw FTs better than Daye. But the obvious difference in the steals stats point to Ross' superiority over Daye as a perimeter defender. Is Tony Allen a better player than Kobe? Hell no. Is Tony Allen a better perimeter defender than Kobe? Yes.

    Also, Ross' abilty to dunk is greater than Daye's (and i believe dunks are useful tools in the NBA, contrary to your beliefs.). Tim Duncan is a better player than Blake Griffin. Blake is nowhere close to the superstar Duncan is. But Timmy can't bring the same energy and excitement to the environment the way Blake can. He has the ability to start a huge run with a single play. That aspect of the game should not be minimized. The NBA is a mental game as much as it is a physical game.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Red and White's Avatar
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  6. #205
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    Quote Red and White wrote: View Post
    30 points and 10 rebounds being matched up against KD? Even if it is Drew League and no one plays defense, I'll take it. Hopefully it'll be a sign of his confidence growing which will also hopefully translate to more confidence in his game next season.

  7. #206
    Raptors Republic Superstar Superjudge's Avatar
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    hahaha. 30 and 10..... half that and he is already over achieving. I wish Daye well!

  8. #207
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    I want to see Ross in Drew League. He needs to get his confidence up.

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  10. #208
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    I want to see Ross in Drew League. He needs to get his confidence up.
    Maybe we should let him play against children.

    I see a 30* and 10 in his future vs Miss Mcentire's grade 8s.





    *on 13-28 shooting

  11. #209
    Super Moderator Joey's Avatar
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    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    Maybe we should let him play against children.

    I see a 30* and 10 in his future vs Miss Mcentire's grade 8s.

    *on 13-28 shooting
    LOL

    Although, that 13-28 would represent a significantly higher Shooting Percentage than his Season Average from last year ... so there's that...

    All kidding aside, I expect Ross to have a big year.
    In Masai we Trust.

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    Quote joey_hesketh wrote: View Post
    LOL

    Although, that 13-28 would represent a significantly higher Shooting Percentage than his Season Average from last year ... so there's that...

    All kidding aside, I expect Ross to have a big year for the Lake Erie Bayhawks.
    Fixed.

  13. #211
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    Fixed.
    I find it interesting how I get labeled a DD hater/basher/whatever for simply stating at 24 years of age with 4 years, 9700NBA minutes under his belt, and 3 years of being a 1st or 2nd option with history and statistics to back the claim he is what he is yet you continuously take childish jabs at Fields and Ross and it is somehow appropriate.... one player coming off severe injury to his shooting arm and one year older than DD and the other a rookie never given much of an opportunity and 2 years younger.
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  14. #212
    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    The people giving up on Ross already would be the same who wouldve given up on Jose after his rookie season.
    The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

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  16. #213
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    Quote enlightenment wrote: View Post
    The people giving up on Ross already would be the same who wouldve given up on Jose after his rookie season.
    Would've saved us 6 years of watching him lose games for us in the last 2 minutes.

  17. #214
    Raptors Republic Veteran NoPropsneeded's Avatar
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    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    Maybe we should let him play against children.

    I see a 30* and 10 in his future vs Miss Mcentire's grade 8s.





    *on 13-28 shooting
    Dude that's creepy. That was the name of my little brothers 3rd grade teacher O_O

  18. #215
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I find it interesting how I get labeled a DD hater/basher/whatever for simply stating at 24 years of age with 4 years, 9700NBA minutes under his belt, and 3 years of being a 1st or 2nd option with history and statistics to back the claim he is what he is yet you continuously take childish jabs at Fields and Ross and it is somehow appropriate.... one player coming off severe injury to his shooting arm and one year older than DD and the other a rookie never given much of an opportunity and 2 years younger.
    I feel like people go so hard on Fields and Ross is cause of you and other forum members who made a claim that either one of those players would make the team better without any real proof. Just doubting the fact a 24 year old can not get any better in his carreer.

  19. #216
    Raptors Republic Superstar enlightenment's Avatar
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    Quote Letter N wrote: View Post
    Would've saved us 6 years of watching him lose games for us in the last 2 minutes.
    Are you honestly suggesting that Jose was a bad player to keep through his rookie season?
    The Baltic Beast is unstoppable!

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  21. #217
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    I feel like people go so hard on Fields and Ross is cause of you and other forum members who made a claim that either one of those players would make the team better without any real proof. Just doubting the fact a 24 year old can not get any better in his carreer.
    That is fair.

    I know I brought up both in the past as an alternative. At this point in time not realistic to say Ross makes team better given what he has shown not is there any statistical claim to back it up. The aegument Ross' skill set is better for team is based on same hope and potential argument of derozan. Fields on other hand has a few stats to back up the claim he'd make team better - both individual and team.

    Both players style tend to be better sited without a stretch 4 to the current starters (gay. Lowry, Amir, JV) but that is an old argument and had nothing to do with the b.s. given to fields and Ross.

    I am not sure what is considered real proof outside of stats and eye test.

  22. #218
    Raptors Republic Superstar Chr1s1anL's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    That is fair.

    I know I brought up both in the past as an alternative. At this point in time not realistic to say Ross makes team better given what he has shown not is there any statistical claim to back it up. The aegument Ross' skill set is better for team is based on same hope and potential argument of derozan. Fields on other hand has a few stats to back up the claim he'd make team better - both individual and team.

    Both players style tend to be better sited without a stretch 4 to the current starters (gay. Lowry, Amir, JV) but that is an old argument and had nothing to do with the b.s. given to fields and Ross.

    I am not sure what is considered real proof outside of stats and eye test.
    Personally I feel you can't make a case for either 3 to be a better fit without a stretch 4. Ross is inexperience and hasn't proven he can consistently hit the NBA 3. Fields has a broken shoot. For all we know his first year was fluke. Andrea shot 40 % from 3 one year too. From the outside looking in. It seem like he hasn't really workout much this offseason.

    DeMar seem to be the more proven at the moment. It's true DD has played all these minutes and has been the 1st and 2nd option. Has he really ever had a consistent 1st option that stayed heathly and he hasn't been pushed to being the 1st option half way through the season? Coming out college DeMar was being compared to players like Josh Howard and Caron Butler. Legit number two options in thier careers. From what his done so fat his lived up to that. Even though I don't except DD's production to really go up but I do except his efficiency to go up this year. His defense I feel will improve a bit. Him not playing majority of his minutes with AB should help. All around having a better defensive players around him. Also Casey 3rd year shouldn't be taken likely.

  23. #219
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
    Personally I feel you can't make a case for either 3 to be a better fit without a stretch 4. Ross is inexperience and hasn't proven he can consistently hit the NBA 3. Fields has a broken shoot. For all we know his first year was fluke. Andrea shot 40 % from 3 one year too. From the outside looking in. It seem like he hasn't really workout much this offseason.

    DeMar seem to be the more proven at the moment. It's true DD has played all these minutes and has been the 1st and 2nd option. Has he really ever had a consistent 1st option that stayed heathly and he hasn't been pushed to being the 1st option half way through the season? Coming out college DeMar was being compared to players like Josh Howard and Caron Butler. Legit number two options in thier careers. From what his done so fat his lived up to that. Even though I don't except DD's production to really go up but I do except his efficiency to go up this year. His defense I feel will improve a bit. Him not playing majority of his minutes with AB should help. All around having a better defensive players around him. Also Casey 3rd year shouldn't be taken likely.
    Listen, I respect your opinion but you just told me I have not provided any proof and you reply without a single piece of evidence to back up your own claim other than feelings and thoughts.

    I just deleted typed comment. I really don't want to get in to discussion again. As p00ka routinely and regularly points out I've made same comments numerous times. I truly am looking forward to seeing how it all plays out and I would not mind in the slightest if I am wrong on DD. This was the only point I wanted to make because the childishness is, well, childish:

    I find it interesting how I get labeled a DD hater/basher/whatever for simply stating at 24 years of age with 4 years, 9700NBA minutes under his belt, and 3 years of being a 1st or 2nd option with history and statistics to back the claim he is what he is yet you continuously take childish jabs at Fields and Ross and it is somehow appropriate.... one player coming off severe injury to his shooting arm and one year older than DD and the other a rookie never given much of an opportunity and 2 years younger.
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  24. #220
    Super Moderator ReubenJRD's Avatar
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    Just saying, but there are 218 posts (now 219) on a third string wing player.

    The life of a Toronto Raptors fan.

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