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Thread: Other teams moves = change in Raptors plans? or not?

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    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
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    Default Other teams moves = change in Raptors plans? or not?

    Im just wondering, when teams make moves, does it directly or indirectly affect Masai's vision/plans for the future? Or should he simply not care at all?

    Clearly Detroit's recent move picking up Jennings put them at least, in the Top 5 in the east. I think it puts them right up there with the Knicks battling for the 5th seed.

    So if Masai was thinking of riding this roster out and hopefully making the playoffs, clearly Detroit's acquisition of Jennings almost guarantees them a playoff spot therefore pushing washington, cavs and raps further down.

    Will this alter Masai's plans?

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    Raptors Republic All-Star JawsGT's Avatar
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    It's a tough question to answer without really knowing what his plan is for this team going forward. My guess is that it doesn't have a substantial impact, but he knows that there is now another team in the East that the Raps will have to go through in order to contend.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    i doubt he really cares this year. from everything i've heard and read this is a "evaluating" year. i sincerely doubt MU expects or even think we'll make the playoffs this year, what he cares about is finding out what players he wants moving forwards and from there starting to make moves.
    @jerboat

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Fully's Avatar
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    I asked a similar question recently in a thread. A month or so ago most people were expecting half of the Conference to be trying to bottom out which made the playoffs seem like a relatively easy goal for the Raptors next season. But it has swung in the opposite direction. Cleveland, Milwaukee, Atlanta, Washington and Detroit all appear motivated to make the playoffs. Even Charlotte took a step in the right direction with the Jefferson signing, although they should still be a pretty miserable team.

    Most of the answers were just homers that claimed the Raptors were clearly better than all those other teams anyway. Make of that what you will.
    Last edited by Fully; Wed Jul 31st, 2013 at 02:17 PM.

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    Raptors Republic Superstar planetmars's Avatar
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    Jennings does not turn the Pistons into a top 5 team. They are still a borderline playoff team in my opinion... regardless MU's plan for this season was always to take a look at what he has and either move forward or backwards depending on what's happening on the court.

    He is not using this year to contend so despite what other ECF teams do, I don't think it will affect his plan at all.

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    With several teams making moves to seemingly become more competitive this season than expected, I think the window for 'tanking' (either deliberately, just because, or a combination thereof - ie: bad to start the season and salary dump at deadline) has definitely opened a little wider than it was when MU was hired.

    BAD TEAMS / TANKERS
    - Philly
    - Orlando
    - Charlotte
    - Boston
    - Utah
    - Phoenix

    I still think Toronto is among a big group of teams that will be fighting for the #6-11 spots in the East. Under the right scenario, I could even see Boston and/or Charlotte surprising people and jumping up into that group, making it a 7/8 team battle for #6-12/13. Injuries and 1st half schedules are both wildcard factors at this point as well.

    The bottom line is that I think MU is still going to take the same approach he's been speaking about since day one. I really believe the first half of the season will be the ultimate deciding factor for MU, when it comes to choosing a direction for this team. MU will evaluate the roster - both individual players and team fit - and determine the market value of each player on his roster, before making his move for the long-term.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Fully's Avatar
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    Jennings is an upgrade over Knight in a vacuum, therefore I think it's safe to say that they've improved their overall talent level. Whether all the pieces mesh together properly is a pretty big question mark, but they have surpassed the Raptors in terms of talent.

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    Nope. If your goal is to win a championship, another team with an upside of 4th or 5th in the conference has no bearing (and honestly, I'd be very surprised if Detroit's that good this year). I'd hope that Masai evaluates the current core early into next season, determines what their ceiling is, and if he sees parts that he thinks are potential championship pieces, he keeps them. If they aren't championship pieces, he moves them. I think the only evaluation of other teams you need to really care about is who those absolute top teams are going to be, how long they'll be able to stay together, and what pieces you need to beat them. Take care of those questions and teams like Detroit are still irrelevant.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie raptorland's Avatar
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    I think he's aware of the occurrences, but it will definitely not change how he perceives certain inquiries. Of course, from a coaching standpoint, Detroit and Milwaukee will have a drastically different game plan with the addition of their other pieces like a Josh Smith or Brandon Knight, but from a GM position, I'd like to say he simply just jots it down in his brain and analyzes it when needed.

    Now with that statement of Detroit being a 5th seed, I don't really agree with you. Sure, Detroit has a lot of potential but they still have a lot to prove in terms of chemistry and cohesiveness as a unit. With Mo Cheeks, we have to see how it pans out because Jennings doesn't play defense and puts up a lot of tough shots. Their bench is quite weaker than most NBA benches out there, so I don't see quite see them in the playoff mix just yet. I actually see Cleveland a better team than Detroit at this point.

    I ultimately think Masai's plans is go with the flow this entire season. If we do bad, OK let's tank for 2014. If we do good and slide into the playoffs, then he will look a genius, especially with all the moves that he did at such a steep and tight budget.

    All in all..Masai seems comfortable with the team right now and so am I (kinda).

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote planetmars wrote: View Post
    Jennings does not turn the Pistons into a top 5 team. They are still a borderline playoff team in my opinion... regardless MU's plan for this season was always to take a look at what he has and either move forward or backwards depending on what's happening on the court.

    He is not using this year to contend so despite what other ECF teams do, I don't think it will affect his plan at all.
    I think Detroit has more going now and long term than Toronto barring injury to Drummond (his size/explosiveness and knees/back have always scared me).

    Jennings is 24.
    KCP is 20.
    Smith is 27.
    Drummond is 20.
    Monroe is 23.
    Mitchell is 21 with 1st round talent but questionable 'head'

    I think Datome is an underrated signing.

    Next summer they could have another $10M in cap space.... and that is AFTER extending Monroe for $12M assuming cap estimates of $62M become reality.

    We'll see.

    Definitely agree Detroit is a borderline playoff team next season but I do put them ahead of Toronto.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    I think Detroit has more going now and long term than Toronto barring injury to Drummond (his size/explosiveness and knees/back have always scared me).

    Jennings is 24.
    KCP is 20.
    Smith is 27.
    Drummond is 20.
    Monroe is 23.
    Mitchell is 21 with 1st round talent but questionable 'head'

    I think Datome is an underrated signing.

    Next summer they could have another $10M in cap space.... and that is AFTER extending Monroe for $12M assuming cap estimates of $62M become reality.

    We'll see.

    Definitely agree Detroit is a borderline playoff team next season but I do put them ahead of Toronto.
    And they could be even better off if they let Monroe go to RFA. His cap hold would be only 10 M, leaving them even more room to sign a free agent before settling on a near-max contract with Monroe.

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    I am surprised many responders in the thread believe that MU is in a evaluating mode. I'd be disappointed if he were. This is not his first and/or neophyte year in the league. Apart from being here before and as a gm of the Nuggets and talent evaluator previously as well he probably has a book on most players. I am sure he also by now has a fairly good idea of the trade value of the current team members. In short he has already evaluated the team. What we dont know for sure....is he going to go full bore rebuild or partial one. Circumstances will determine I suspect (obvious!). One thing is for sure, this team is too expensive for the talent level on it.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Evaluating doesn't necessarily just mean what his players can do, but also what their value around the league is. In denver i'm sure he would have laughed at BC if he offered say, Demar for Lawson, but what about other GMs?
    @jerboat

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    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote DanH wrote: View Post
    And they could be even better off if they let Monroe go to RFA. His cap hold would be only 10 M, leaving them even more room to sign a free agent before settling on a near-max contract with Monroe.
    Good point.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    I am surprised many responders in the thread believe that MU is in a evaluating mode. I'd be disappointed if he were. This is not his first and/or neophyte year in the league. Apart from being here before and as a gm of the Nuggets and talent evaluator previously as well he probably has a book on most players. I am sure he also by now has a fairly good idea of the trade value of the current team members. In short he has already evaluated the team. What we dont know for sure....is he going to go full bore rebuild or partial one. Circumstances will determine I suspect (obvious!). One thing is for sure, this team is too expensive for the talent level on it.
    I take the man at his word and believe he's in evaluation mode. Maybe I just don't want to believe he's bullshitting us, but everything he has said and done/not done supports that, and with so many young players, what they were last year can be very different than what they are this coming year.

    Something I just thought of as a possibility, considering Casey was kept, without an extension, is:
    - Casey has higher hopes for more of these guys that many do, particularly as a TEAM being greater than sum of parts
    - believes that given free reins to run the team as he sees fit, with emphasis on D, he can make something of this
    - he convinced MU to give him a shot with this core.
    - UM said, okay have at it while I assess where they're at, how they fit, and what deals are available.

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    Quote p00ka wrote: View Post
    I take the man at his word and believe he's in evaluation mode. Maybe I just don't want to believe he's bullshitting us, but everything he has said and done/not done supports that, and with so many young players, what they were last year can be very different than what they are this coming year.

    Something I just thought of as a possibility, considering Casey was kept, without an extension, is:
    - Casey has higher hopes for more of these guys that many do, particularly as a TEAM being greater than sum of parts
    - believes that given free reins to run the team as he sees fit, with emphasis on D, he can make something of this
    - he convinced MU to give him a shot with this core.
    - UM said, okay have at it while I assess where they're at, how they fit, and what deals are available.
    Of course what you say is plausible. But consider that from his viewpoint isnt it easier to deflect detailed questioning on his plans from the masses/sports writers by dropping the evaluation card? He seems like a pretty cagey sort.

    Keeping Casey on, fmv, was a no-brainer with things in flux. If they discussed plans, Casey must have bought into it and MU said "show me" or something to that effect.

    Is reading the tea leaves a sport?

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    Quote Fully wrote: View Post
    I asked a similar question recently in a thread. A month or so ago most people were expecting half of the Conference to be trying to bottom out which made the playoffs seem like a relatively easy goal for the Raptors next season. But it has swung in the opposite direction. Cleveland, Milwaukee, Atlanta, Washington and Detroit all appear motivated to make the playoffs. Even Charlotte took a step in the right direction with the Jefferson signing, although they should still be a pretty miserable team.

    Most of the answers were just homers that claimed the Raptors were clearly better than all those other teams anyway. Make of that what you will.
    I wouldn't say Milwaukee is motivated to make the playoffs. They're kinda suck in purgatory right now...

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    Quote p00ka wrote: View Post
    Something I just thought of as a possibility, considering Casey was kept, without an extension, is:
    - Casey has higher hopes for more of these guys that many do, particularly as a TEAM being greater than sum of parts
    - believes that given free reins to run the team as he sees fit, with emphasis on D, he can make something of this
    - he convinced MU to give him a shot with this core.
    - UM said, okay have at it while I assess where they're at, how they fit, and what deals are available.
    Casey's skills as a coach are being evaluated by Masai just like every player is - it seems to be generally accepted that last season BC was interfering with his preferred coaching style, and that the team didn't get an offensive coordinator so that Case could concentrate on D and player encouragement which are his specialties. So now Casey gets a season to show what he can do.

    Besides, it doesn't make sense to fire Casey right away anyway. A GM only gets so many opportunities to fire coaches before people point the finger at the GM instead. Best to save them for when you need them.

    And, as an aside, the SB Nation power rankings have Toronto at #22 overall and tenth in the East: http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/7/3...on-heat-sixers

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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    Of course what you say is plausible. But consider that from his viewpoint isnt it easier to deflect detailed questioning on his plans from the masses/sports writers by dropping the evaluation card? He seems like a pretty cagey sort.

    Keeping Casey on, fmv, was a no-brainer with things in flux. If they discussed plans, Casey must have bought into it and MU said "show me" or something to that effect.

    Is reading the tea leaves a sport?
    Well, my babbling of a theory is one thing, but when you say "I am surprised many responders in the thread believe that MU is in a evaluating mode.", my primary point is that I take the man at his word, as I guess many do. I see no reason to question the man's honesty and integrity. Have at it if it works for you, but I feel it's not so unbelievable that many don't.

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    Cleveland ,Washington and Detroit have maxed out ..raps still have alot of room for improvement plus there all on the same level

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