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Thread: How many losses before it's BLOWN UP!

  1. #1
    Raptors Republic Rookie Sheptor's Avatar
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    Default How many losses before it's BLOWN UP!

    Last Season the raps started 4-19 and basically eliminated themselves from the playoffs before Santa checked his list for the first time. It can be said that the goal last year was MOST definitely see how the season goes and maybe we are a playoff team and maybe we are not, and if we are not THEN we can move Bargnani/Calderon/Kleiza/BC. I'm sure they were all shopped earlier then when they departed but due to injuries they stayed longer.

    I see a very similar situation this year in that we don't really know how the East is going to play out. Some teams got better (Detroit, Cleveland) and we are really relying on a TRAINING CAMP to see if we are actually better because our additions are inferior to those teams. However the argument is that our guys are already good and we are relying on internal development (JV, ROSS, DD....again, etc.) plus our training camp to mesh it all together and create a team chemistry that no other team gains apparently. My question....

    How long do we wait until we decide to make that decision of BLOWING IT UP, or scraping for the bread crumbs of the 7th/8th seed? If it's the trade deadline and we are 5 out sitting tenth is it TNT time? I personally feel that we need to be currently in the playoff picture at TD to go for it or at a minimum 4 games out (but playing good with no injuries) if we go for it. The risk of falling short is just not worth it.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Depends, how many games are there before the trade deadline?

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    Raptors Republic Starter connected's Avatar
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    I say 1....... THE PRESSURE'S ON RAPTORS

    but then again, I'm expecting the perfect season 82-0 baby

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    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    Depends, how many games are there before the trade deadline?
    Trade deadline is usually about 55 games in.

    I think anything hovering .500 or below after 30 games is enough to bring in the tanks.
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

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    Raptors Republic Veteran ceez's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Trade deadline is usually about 55 games in.

    I think anything hovering .500 or below after 30 games is enough to bring in the tanks.
    sounds about right
    @jerboat

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    Quote ceez wrote: View Post
    Depends, how many games are there before the trade deadline?
    Last season had 27 I believe, so use 25 as a nice round figure if you want.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star Mediumcore's Avatar
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    Depends on whether blowing it up is even an option for Ujiri. He has only gone on record to say hat he is evaluating the team for now. Regardless of how good or how bad he may not see blowing it up as a viable option.

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Sheptor's Avatar
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    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Trade deadline is usually about 55 games in.

    I think anything hovering .500 or below after 30 games is enough to bring in the tanks.
    15-15 could be 7th at that point. You'd be expected by fan base to continue to shoot for playoffs with that record. If it's 25-30 and you're tenth by the deadline then by all means.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star slaw's Avatar
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    Need to see the schedule first. I believe it comes out this week. If they open with a tough stretch (almost always the case) that will affect the timeline I would think.

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    UM can't blow it up until he has willing trade partners. He may decide to after "x" number of games/losses, but we'll likely not know until he can do something that makes sense, which may be only when other teams decide they need to make a move to improve with what he's offering.

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    Raptors Republic Icon mcHAPPY's Avatar
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    Quote Sheptor wrote: View Post
    15-15 could be 7th at that point. You'd be expected by fan base to continue to shoot for playoffs with that record. If it's 25-30 and you're tenth by the deadline then by all means.
    It might be 7th. It might be 9th.

    TL has already laid the groundwork for such a trade.

    That reasoning is partly what had Colangelo keep Bosh and Milwaukee send Harris for Redick last season.

    If you can bring back a proven young talent, first round draft picks, and lots of financial flexibility, I think it is an easy sell once you start talking about the goal is more than 7-11 and the prospect of getting other 19/very early 20 talent paired with JV.


    But back to original point, you might be right that .500 is a bit too high after 30 games if they are in the playoff picture. Say 13-17 and sitting in 9th? lol
    "You donít know the Bruno Caboclo......"
    Bruno Caboclo

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    I think it's worth remembering that .500 isn't even a guarantee of making playoffs - three times since 2000 the 8th seed in the East has had a better than .500 record. And when you consider how bad some of the dedicated tank teams are going to be (Philly is going to be abysmally, incredibly bad - ditto Phoenix) that means there will be more wins generally needed to make playoffs in the first place.

    Still pessimistic about Toronto's chances of playoffs. I think Masai is specifically waiting to see how his best potential trade partners react. If he wants 2014 first-rounders, thirteen teams have already dealt away their first-rounder this year (most of them on a protected basis, granted, but traded means traded). Four more are ineligible because they've committed to trading their 2015 first-rounder (the Lakers, the Clippers, the Heat and Memphis). His best trade targets are probably Cleveland and Milwaukee, both of whom want to make playoffs quite badly and who both have their own 2014 picks to trade.

    (I also still think Charlotte, if they go on an early run like they did last year, will start looking to improve via trade immediately - even if they shouldn't. They can't trade their own pick, but they have Detroit's and Portland's - both protected, but Detroit will likely not fall within the top 8 protection and Portland has a good shot at avoiding top-12.)

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    Raptors Republic Rookie Lefty's Avatar
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    Obviously, our record plays a key roll in whether we tank, but there are other factors. Is Gay doing well? Will he fetch a bounty? Or is he being shitty, so all we got is some bread crust types like Charlie V and Stuckey? Is Lowry causing locker room problems and fighting with the coach? Can he distribute the ball? These types of things may dictate what we can (or can't) fetch if we tank.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star JawsGT's Avatar
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    I don't know if there is a target number of losses which would send us into tank mode. I also don't think MU will send this team into a full on tank situation. His contract is for 3 years, that doesn't give him alot of time to elevate this club, but he has the flexibility going forward to make enough moves to send this team in a better direction and get extended himself. I think MU probably already has and will continue throughout the season to see what he can get for some of our key players. If the right trade appears, I'll think he'll pull the trigger, regardless of our record. I'm convinced MU does not want to ride BC's lineup into the playoffs and wants to put his mark on this club. I don't think playoffs this season is a priority, but if the team seriously over-achieves, MU may just look to add an impact type player somehow and see where that takes us.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Bendit's Avatar
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    MU's contract is for 5 years.

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    Raptors Republic All-Star JawsGT's Avatar
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    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    MU's contract is for 5 years.
    oops, my bad. I still think he'll start moving guys if the right trades appear during the season tho.

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    Quote p00ka wrote: View Post
    UM can't blow it up until he has willing trade partners. He may decide to after "x" number of games/losses, but we'll likely not know until he can do something that makes sense, which may be only when other teams decide they need to make a move to improve with what he's offering.
    This. People think the NBA is 2K and you can just initiate trades whenever YOU want to.

    NO. The other team has to be willing to move those players at that point in time. Even what looks like a fair trade might be of no interest to a team until they've had more time to look at their team.

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    Raptors Republic Veteran Nilanka's Avatar
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    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    This. People think the NBA is 2K and you can just initiate trades whenever YOU want to.

    NO. The other team has to be willing to move those players at that point in time. Even what looks like a fair trade might be of no interest to a team until they've had more time to look at their team.
    All we have to do is change the OP to mean Ujiri's intention to blow it up, and the question is still a valid one.
    "I don't lie. I willfully participate in a campaign of misinformation." - Fox Mulder

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    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    This. People think the NBA is 2K and you can just initiate trades whenever YOU want to.

    NO. The other team has to be willing to move those players at that point in time. Even what looks like a fair trade might be of no interest to a team until they've had more time to look at their team.
    True enough. Historically, though, by late December teams are usually ready to make a move if they see a need. That's when a lot of the summer's moves become fixable, due to the trade restrictions on new signings expiring. And at that stage there is still time to impact the season as a whole, whereas a trade deadline deal can be too little too late in terms of impact on record as well as time to gel before the playoffs. So I expect that we'll know either way by January, since the record will be judged in mid to late December.

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    Super Moderator CalgaryRapsFan's Avatar
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    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    This. People think the NBA is 2K and you can just initiate trades whenever YOU want to.

    NO. The other team has to be willing to move those players at that point in time. Even what looks like a fair trade might be of no interest to a team until they've had more time to look at their team.
    I expect that MU has been working the phones to determine trade value and lineup potential trades for all his players, since he was hired, and will continue to do so up until the trade deadline. We also aren't talking about trading scrubs for lottery picks; MU has young, talented, slightly overpaid players to trade, who likely will draw plenty of interest on the trade market (ie: Gay, DeRozan, Lowry), as well as a variety of depth/role players (most are expiring) who are often in high demand at the trade deadline each year (ie: Hansborough, Novak). Given half a season to both evaluate his own players and lineup possible trades, I really don't think he'd be too hard pressed to find trade partners that give back acceptable returns (especially if tanking is the goal, where you aren't necessarily looking to get equal talent back in trade).

    Quote Nilanka wrote: View Post
    All we have to do is change the OP to mean Ujiri's intention to blow it up, and the question is still a valid one.
    Exactly. Everything we discuss here is "intended" or "implied" or "hoped for"... at least until RR gets a seat in MU's war room!

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