Page 6 of 20 FirstFirst ... 4 5 6 7 8 16 ... LastLast
Results 101 to 120 of 398

Thread: Signs Of Tanking?

  1. #101
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    744
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    What does an extension have to do with it? How else is Gay going to be resigned?

    You need to pay attention in Math class.

    Your way:
    4 years/$60M*
    Free agent at 32 signing for $15M? No.
    *This is a major assumption especially if he has the stellar year that would make him worth resigning.

    Total over 4 years: $60M

    My way:
    1 year/$19M
    4 years/$15M
    minus cost of insurance policy

    Total over 5 years $79M minus insurance cost.

    The key is when do you want to be an UFA? At 28/29 or 31/32?

    The Chris Paul situation sounds very like Gay in Toronto to be honest. But it doesn't fit your opinion so I get the dismissive reply.

    I don't think Gay is going to agree to an extension because of what you mentioned (the potential of having a stellar year). It's the same reason Ellis didn't. So scenario one is more likely. It's not like the CP3 situation because CP3 is a superstar and even if he tore his ACL/MCL and missed a whole year teams would be lining up to max him. Gay on the other hand would be fucked. PS: I do just fine in university level math thanks

    Monta turned down $36M and 3 years from Milwaukee. His inflated view of his own self-worth cost him $12M.

    I'm not sure how this matters. All players think that they can and will play better in the following season.

    You miss the point referring to LBJ, Wade, Bosh. I don't know how old you are but prior to 2010 there was a belief that players never leave money on the table. Bosh even said the advice given to him by former all-star was make as much money as you can. Wade/LBJ/Bosh leaving money on the table to play together was unprecedented. So while you think players "always" take guaranteed money and years over a big one year salary that can hardly be considered a certainty especially when considering insurance policy possibility and Gay's age relative to the examples of AI and AK-47 you gave initially.

    Can you clarify what point you're trying to make here.


    Lowry was traded last season for cap space and a lottery draft pick. Bledsoe returned Dudley - the two 2nd round picks got Redick from Milwaukee. The very fact Lowry is not considered to be a hot commodity next summer is exactly why the Raptors should not be boxing themselves on to the treadmill by signing him to a large contract.

    Pretty sure BC just made that move to save face after missing out on Nash. And even if he didn't there's a difference between moving a lottery pick in a projected weak draft and a strong one like 2014. I did not say we have to or even should sign Lowry to a big extension. My sentiment is in line with what Ujiri said. See how they play this year then talk about $$$ at the end of the season.

    I didn't say anything about a max guy. The fact is even renouncing Amir you wouldn't have enough to sign a max guy if you have a player will to come to Toronto with MAX abilities.

    Actually yes you would.


    Building through the draft doesn't mean drafting one player in one year and competing for championships immediately. Building through the draft combines the low cost of highly talented players on rookie contracts with the flexibility cap space in trades and free agency.

    Right but you need to draft those highly talented players first or your idea is kaput. It's very possible and actually more likely to continue to get screwed by bad picks or ping pong balls year after year than it is to add talent. Look at the mediocrity of the players Cleveland has drafted since getting Irving.

    Your example of the Spurs is shortsighted. Does Toronto have the offensive or defensive systems of San Antonio? The talent? The coaching? No to all. Teams that are contenders are drafting for need and inserting players in to situations few lottery picks ever enter.

    Why aren't we building that system?

    But even relying on late first round picks, second round picks, and undrafted players is certainly much more statistically unlikely than drafting in the top 5/6.

    Actually it's very easy to get rotation players with these picks.

    BOOM! The money shot!

    So you're willing to jump on the treadmill for 4 years of Gay/Lowry and then start over with JV already on a max or near max deal when he is 24? That is the entire point of the discussion you seem to forget. Keeping the core as is guarantees nothing. There is no flexibility. There is nothing to indicate anything more than a .500 team as is and assuming JV becomes dominant, maybe, they get a 5/6 seed.

    Idk why you keep suggesting that this is the one and only alternative to tanking. I've never said that we HAVE to keep this core together. What I said is that it's possible to while maintaining flexibility, and the fact is that around 20M in cap room would be available in 2015 even with Gay/Lowry re-signed for a combined 25M (which by your estimate is more than they would need to be paid).


    But in point out that example you refuse to acknowledge the superior talent and financial flexibilitiy Indiana possessed.

    How? Last year Hibbert was making 14M, Granger 13M, West 10M, Hill 8M with George's max extension looming. In years past they were tied into expensive deals like Posey's 7M a year, Foster's 6.6M a year, Tinsley's 5.5, Ford's 8.5 and Dunleavy's 9.7M. They had flexibility for a 1 year period, which they used to sign West for 10M a year.

    Who compared them? If I implied that, sorry. They both are all-star calibre C's.

    You said Jonas = Hibbert... Sorry to me an equals sign implies comparison.


    Why did OKC manage to pull that off? They stacked up on draft picks. What do people who want to trade Lowry/Gay/DeRozan want in return? Draft picks and young talent and expirings.

    Many other teams have stacked up on draft picks before and failed to pull 3 potential HOF players with them.

    Toronto already is ahead of the game in getting multiple stars. JV is a star in the making and I agree he will be on that list someday. Toronto is in the rare position of starting a rebuilding project with the hardest position in the game to acquire filled with possible all-star talent, pieces with value for teams trying to make the playoffs on the roster, and leading in to a draft with multiple high end talent at the top of the draft (granted a lot can happen in a year).

    You keep talking about tanking. The Raptors only won 34 games! < .500 ball after trade. We're not talking about blowing up a championship contender.


    The problem with tanking is that it's very likely that we end up drafting players who take years just to get to the same level as Gay/Lowry or worse. You're a Raptors fan. We've had plenty of high picks in the past that have failed to pan out as superstars and result in a winning team. In fact most of them have not.

    Without the same talent and financial flexibility it is an apples to oranges comparison.

    No it isn't. How did Indiana acquire that talent?
    .

  2. #102
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    744
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote jimmie wrote: View Post
    Maybe this will help: Let's not trade Gay/Lowry/Derozan/some combination thereof for the sole purpose of getting worse and tanking for the draft.

    Let's trade them/some combination thereof because doing so will give Toronto a chance to get better/move closer to *real* playoff contention (vs. annual 7/8 seeds) within the next 3-5 years (Jonas' -- the only current potential "franchise player" -- window).

    During that 3-5 period, the Raptors should be doing everything in their power to maximize that potential, and that means that certain players -- and this is important for people like Xixak -- who don't fit so well with that 3-5 year plan, but might still be attractive to others (like Gay and Lowry especially) become assets to bring back other players/picks/financial flexibility that do fit the plan.

    It's not that those guys suck, it's that they aren't providing max value in Toronto, for what Toronto needs. They'd probably be a better fit elsewhere, and Toronto could probably benefit from what they'd bring in return. That said, there's also no need to jump at shadows; with no real expectations, Ujiri can bide his time and wait until other teams are more desperate to fill holes, shed cap, etc.
    I am 100% in favor if this. If you can get back that kind of value for Gay/Lowry then ship them out.

    I just don't like the idea of trading them for the sake of a tank, getting out-tanked by crappier teams, not getting a star and ending up on the same 9th-12th seed treadmill for the next 5 years that we've always been on.

  3. Like p00ka liked this post
  4. #103
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    19,087
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    I am 100% in favor if this. If you can get back that kind of value for Gay/Lowry then ship them out.

    I just don't like the idea of trading them for the sake of a tank, getting out-tanked by crappier teams, not getting a star and ending up on the same 9th-12th seed treadmill for the next 5 years that we've always been on.
    So we are on the same page.

    I nor anyone else proposing tanking with the intention of getting better long term has ever suggested trading anyone for scraps and relying on Toronto's own draft pick as the only means of acquiring talent.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  5. #104
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    744
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Some of you guys are mistaking what I said about possibly re-signing Lowry/Gay as me being enamoured with our current roster. I'm not. I think it could work given the right scenario and the addition of another star via trade, FA, draft etc though. That being said the only thing I have a problem with is selling low on players with the goal of tanking in mind. It's just not a sound strategy, and has a very high chance of being unsuccessful. I'm all in favour of trading both of them (or anyone on the team for that matter) as long as we're getting positive value back.

    Right now imo the market for those two is weak which is why Ujiri hasn't traded either. The Pistons offer of Charlie V + Stuckey is awful. Cap space doesn't do anything for you if your team is bad, because no one of merit will want to sign there.

  6. #105
    Raptors Republic Superstar TheGloveinRapsUniform's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Markham, Ontario
    Posts
    2,852
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote jimmie wrote: View Post
    Maybe this will help: Let's not trade Gay/Lowry/Derozan/some combination thereof for the sole purpose of getting worse and tanking for the draft.

    Let's trade them/some combination thereof because doing so will give Toronto a chance to get better/move closer to *real* playoff contention (vs. annual 7/8 seeds) within the next 3-5 years (Jonas' -- the only current potential "franchise player" -- window).

    During that 3-5 period, the Raptors should be doing everything in their power to maximize that potential, and that means that certain players -- and this is important for people like Xixak -- who don't fit so well with that 3-5 year plan, but might still be attractive to others (like Gay and Lowry especially) become assets to bring back other players/picks/financial flexibility that do fit the plan.

    It's not that those guys suck, it's that they aren't providing max value in Toronto, for what Toronto needs. They'd probably be a better fit elsewhere, and Toronto could probably benefit from what they'd bring in return. That said, there's also no need to jump at shadows; with no real expectations, Ujiri can bide his time and wait until other teams are more desperate to fill holes, shed cap, etc.
    From my perspective, a guy who is no capologist, statistician or number cruncher, i look at this raptors roster on the surface and see what is pretty much obvious as to why this team underperformed last season.

    lowry was not a 100% in training camp due to injury the previous season. injuries mid season
    6 new players (?)
    fields injured
    bargnani injured
    valanciunas injury beginning to mid season
    pg controversy
    Gay trade mid-season
    gay vison problems
    roster revisions game to game basis
    strategy conflict between GM and coach (?)

    why are we basing a future subpar peformance of this team on a previous season that was pretty much a wash? and to think, they were only 4 games away from a playoff spot? without these issues, plus a much improved Valanciunas, dont you think this team is capable of doing more? dont know about you guys but im excited to see what this team can do.
    Last edited by TheGloveinRapsUniform; Thu Aug 8th, 2013 at 11:46 AM.

  7. Like p00ka liked this post
  8. #106
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    744
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    So we are on the same page.

    I nor anyone else proposing tanking with the intention of getting better long term has ever suggested trading anyone for scraps and relying on Toronto's own draft pick as the only means of acquiring talent.
    Ok looks like we agree then.

    All I was saying is re-signing Gay/Lowry and trying to cash in on 2015 cap flexibility is a better alternative to getting fleeced by other teams in trades for them and trying to tank.

  9. #107
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    19,087
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    .
    Discussion is much easier if you refrain from putting bold comments in the quotes.

    But you're going in circles and it is now boring.

    For the record just a couple of months ago I was advocating your opinion of staying the course on these very forums. After much more consideration, I disagreed with my original thoughts.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  10. #108
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    744
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Matt52 wrote: View Post
    Discussion is much easier if you refrain from putting bold comments in the quotes.

    But you're going in circles and it is now boring.

    For the record just a couple of months ago I was advocating your opinion of staying the course on these very forums. After much more consideration, I disagreed with my original thoughts.
    My opinion is not to "stay the course". I just thinking "staying the course" is better than trading away guys JUST to tank and selling low. Then feeling like shit when the draft rolls around and we don't get a star.

    I didn't post here much before but I remember how pissed everyone was in 2011 on RealGM when we fell from 3rd to 5th in the draft.

  11. #109
    Raptors Republic All-Star Craiger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    1,120
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    I am 100% in favor if this. If you can get back that kind of value for Gay/Lowry then ship them out.

    I just don't like the idea of trading them for the sake of a tank, getting out-tanked by crappier teams, not getting a star and ending up on the same 9th-12th seed treadmill for the next 5 years that we've always been on.
    I'll ask the question I dreaded asking before.... WHAT?????

    So you are ok with what would be a tank job, aslong as its not throwing Gay and Lowry away for nothing - something no one was arguing in the first place?




    No wait never mind, I absolutely don't want to know.


  12. Like CalgaryRapsFan liked this post
  13. #110
    Raptors Republic All-Star
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    1,110
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    Ok looks like we agree then.

    All I was saying is re-signing Gay/Lowry and trying to cash in on 2015 cap flexibility is a better alternative to getting fleeced by other teams in trades for them and trying to tank.
    I don't think anybody disagrees with this: the Stuckey/Villaneuva proposal was met with widespread derision here and by pretty much every Raptors fan period because it was so awful. If Detroit had made a more serious offer for Rudy (say one of Stuckey or Villaneuva plus Brandon Knight and future first-round draft considerations) maybe that would be worth looking at, but they didn't.

    None of us advocating for rebuild think we should throw away our talented young players for scraps, because that's silly. We trade them for, yes, some garbage, but also prospects and picks. The Luis Scola trade is a great example: Phoenix traded Scola and got back a garbage contract (Green) plus a prospect (Plumlee) and a first-round pick. That's a great rebuild trade: Green's cap hit hardly hurts them and they get a young player with upside and a first-rounder. And Rudy and Kyle should net more than Scola, frankly.

  14. Like CalgaryRapsFan liked this post
  15. #111
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    744
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote magoon wrote: View Post
    I don't think anybody disagrees with this: the Stuckey/Villaneuva proposal was met with widespread derision here and by pretty much every Raptors fan period because it was so awful. If Detroit had made a more serious offer for Rudy (say one of Stuckey or Villaneuva plus Brandon Knight and future first-round draft considerations) maybe that would be worth looking at, but they didn't.

    None of us advocating for rebuild think we should throw away our talented young players for scraps, because that's silly. We trade them for, yes, some garbage, but also prospects and picks. The Luis Scola trade is a great example: Phoenix traded Scola and got back a garbage contract (Green) plus a prospect (Plumlee) and a first-round pick. That's a great rebuild trade: Green's cap hit hardly hurts them and they get a young player with upside and a first-rounder. And Rudy and Kyle should net more than Scola, frankly.
    This is the only problem, moreso for Gay than Lowry. His deal makes it difficult to trade him to any legitimate contenders because they don't have the necessary contracts to send back in exchange. In Lowry's case the issue is that not many teams need a PG, and the ones that do aren't trying to contend.

    This is the fundamental problem with the tanking plan. It looks like we all agree on not trading guys away for crap value... but where are we going to get good value from?

  16. Like p00ka liked this post
  17. #112
    Raptors Republic Superstar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    4,962
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    I may have missed it if anyone mentioned it...that MU also has the option of duplicating his strategy with Afflalo & Nene when he signed them to contracts considered team friendly and then traded them. Considering the expiring nature of Gay & Lowry contracts this would be more attractive to potential trade partners. But a fine line it is reading (and convincing the player) market conditions a year ahead.

  18. Like Xixak liked this post
  19. #113
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    744
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Bendit wrote: View Post
    I may have missed it if anyone mentioned it...that MU also has the option of duplicating his strategy with Afflalo & Nene when he signed them to contracts considered team friendly and then traded them. Considering the expiring nature of Gay & Lowry contracts this would be more attractive to potential trade partners. But a fine line it is reading (and convincing the player) market conditions a year ahead.
    This is another option that I failed to mention.

    A 18M Rudy Gay coming off an inefficient season with an opt-out clause isn't much of a valuable asset. An efficient 20-7 Rudy Gay locked up for his prime for 13-15M a season on the other hand could be. Same idea for Lowry. Which is why it might be smarter to hang onto them unless a team makes a really enticing offer.

  20. #114
    Raptors Republic All-Star
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    1,110
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    This is the only problem, moreso for Gay than Lowry. His deal makes it difficult to trade him to any legitimate contenders because they don't have the necessary contracts to send back in exchange. In Lowry's case the issue is that not many teams need a PG, and the ones that do aren't trying to contend.
    With respect to Rudy, here are some options that work (I am not going to include picks here, but assume that we would want them in any such trade):

    CLEVELAND (under the cap even post-Bynum): Alonzo Gee, Tristan Thompson, CJ Miles
    CHARLOTTE: Ben Gordon (you can add any single prospect as well but this trade works with Gordon for Rudy straight up, math-wise)
    DALLAS: Shawn Marion, Vince Carter, Jae Crowder
    LAKERS: Steve Nash + pieces from the Lakers' low end

    The Lakers, incidentally, are the obvious targets for a Lowry trade as well, followed by the Bucks, but Lowry we might want to hold off on trading early because I expect his value will increase across the season - especially if a PG on a trying-to-make-playoffs team gets injured. Say Ricky Rubio goes down - Minnesota will start looking. Etc.

  21. #115
    Raptors Republic Starter jimmie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Ottawa
    Posts
    492
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote TheGloveinRapsUniform wrote: View Post
    From my perspective, a guy who is no capologist, statistician or number cruncher, i look at this raptors roster on the surface and see what is pretty much obvious as to why this team underperformed last season.

    lowry was not a 100% in training camp due to injury the previous season. injuries mid season
    6 new players (?)
    fields injured
    bargnani injured
    valanciunas injury beginning to mid season
    pg controversy
    Gay trade mid-season
    gay vison problems
    roster revisions game to game basis
    strategy conflict between GM and coach (?)

    why are we basing a future subpar peformance of this team on a previous season that was pretty much a wash? and to think, they were only 4 games away from a playoff spot? without these issues, plus a much improved Valanciunas, dont you think this team is capable of doing more? dont know about you guys but im excited to see what this team can do.
    It's not just based on last year's Raptors. It's based on historical performance.

    - "Lowry was not 100% in camp"... He's always been injry-plagued. This is a concern. He's also never shown elite PG capability on a consistent basis, or done so with the calibre of team that can advance far in the playoffs. Even when healthy as a Raptor, and with Gay on board, the team was not a barn-burner.
    - "6 new players"... Big deal. Other teams adjust. If you bring in the right players, "6 new players" is actually a good thing.
    - "Bargnani injured"... Was this a curse, or a blessing? Not sure this backs up your argument in any way.
    - "Val injury"... Again, not sure a rookie C is the guy you should be mentioning in terms of keeping your team from contending.
    - "PG controversy"... Was made possible by Lowry's under-performance. And has been an issue everywhere he has played (not that he's a bad apple, just that he has never significantly out-performed his backup).
    - "Gay trade"... That made the team better initially, then regressed again. This was a "positive" move for the team, I thought?
    - "Gay vision problems"... Overblown. And a bad sign, in that he refused to get it fixed for 7 years because he doesn't like glasses or contacts. In other words, "I'd rather play blind than put my own finger in my eye." That's the guy you want leading your team?
    - "Roster revisions game to game"... Because our roster wasn't very good. And it will be the same roster, essentially, this year.
    - "Strategy conflict"... Might have had an effect on the defense, but not the offense. The team Colangelo built incl. Gay trade) was to facilitate run-and-gun, which was essentially the style of play that led them to a sub .500 record after the trade. It wasn't a "strategy" issue, it was always, and still is, a "personnel" issue.

    I like your optimism, but everything you present as reasons for the under-performance last year will still be factors this year.
    Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

  22. Like Fully liked this post
  23. #116
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    744
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote magoon wrote: View Post
    With respect to Rudy, here are some options that work (I am not going to include picks here, but assume that we would want them in any such trade):

    CLEVELAND (under the cap even post-Bynum): Alonzo Gee, Tristan Thompson, CJ Miles
    CHARLOTTE: Ben Gordon (you can add any single prospect as well but this trade works with Gordon for Rudy straight up, math-wise)
    DALLAS: Shawn Marion, Vince Carter, Jae Crowder
    LAKERS: Steve Nash + pieces from the Lakers' low end

    The Lakers, incidentally, are the obvious targets for a Lowry trade as well, followed by the Bucks, but Lowry we might want to hold off on trading early because I expect his value will increase across the season - especially if a PG on a trying-to-make-playoffs team gets injured. Say Ricky Rubio goes down - Minnesota will start looking. Etc.
    Lakers look to be the only real option here.

    Cavs/Charlotte don't need Lowry and also have young SFs to develop in Karasev (possibly Bennett if they convert but I doubt) and MKG.

    Dallas doesn't have their pick, OKC does.

    I think the Lakers may have interest in both players. The only problem is we'd need to take back Gasol and Nash which would kind of defeat the purpose of the move (to get a higher pick), so maybe we could involve a 3rd team to take Gasol.

    If the Rockets can't properly address their PF situation, something like this:

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=mvzfnk7

    With us getting a 2014 1st from both LA and HOU could work.

    Lakers:
    Lowry
    Kobe
    Gay
    Hill
    Kaman

    Raptors:
    Buycks
    DeRozan
    Novak
    Amir
    Valanciunas

    Rockets:
    Beverley
    Harden
    Parsons
    Pau
    Dwight

  24. #117
    Raptors Republic Starter jimmie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Ottawa
    Posts
    492
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    This is another option that I failed to mention.

    A 18M Rudy Gay coming off an inefficient season with an opt-out clause isn't much of a valuable asset. An efficient 20-7 Rudy Gay locked up for his prime for 13-15M a season on the other hand could be. Same idea for Lowry. Which is why it might be smarter to hang onto them unless a team makes a really enticing offer.
    But, a 27-year-old Rudy Gay whose contract is large and expiring next season might also be more valuable than a 28-year-old, re-signed Rudy Gay earning $45M over the next 3 years.

    Gay is currently most valuable to a contending team looking for a 3 who will fit their plans, or a rebuilding team who are content paying him for one more year in exchange for the cap space heading into 2015-16. Lowry is cheap, and also valuable to any team looking for a starting PG this year. Probably more attractive to teams looking for a placeholder starter (don't mind losing him to FA at the end of the season) than teams looking to contend, but still attractive at his price.
    Definition of Statistics: The science of producing unreliable facts from reliable figures.

  25. #118
    Raptors Republic All-Star Fully's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,067
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    This is another option that I failed to mention.

    A 18M Rudy Gay coming off an inefficient season with an opt-out clause isn't much of a valuable asset. An efficient 20-7 Rudy Gay locked up for his prime for 13-15M a season on the other hand could be. Same idea for Lowry. Which is why it might be smarter to hang onto them unless a team makes a really enticing offer.
    So what's the plan in the meantime? I'm sure the answer will be "make the playoffs" but what if that doesn't happen? All the season previews I've read have the Raptors on the outside looking in again. We've now spent the year waiting for trade offers that never came and cost the team a top pick in the loaded 2014 draft in the process. No playoffs. No top pick. Just tire spinning.

    And then what? Do you re-sign the two guys who couldn't take us to the playoffs next summer to "fair" contracts and cross your fingers that someone will give us a really good package for them in 2014-15? What if the perfect offers never come and you end up either a)stuck with them for 3-4 years, squarely in the middle of the treadmill mode or b) cave and take basically the same less than ideal offers that are on the table now after wasting close to two years. Do you just let them walk in free agency and receive absolutely 0 for them?

    I don't understand how people are so dead set against a season of "intentional losing" and yet they're satisfied with spending a season floating around in no man's land.
    Last edited by Fully; Thu Aug 8th, 2013 at 12:59 PM.

  26. Like Axel liked this post
  27. #119
    Raptors Republic Hall of Famer mcHAPPY's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    19,087
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Quote Xixak wrote: View Post
    This is the only problem, moreso for Gay than Lowry. His deal makes it difficult to trade him to any legitimate contenders because they don't have the necessary contracts to send back in exchange. In Lowry's case the issue is that not many teams need a PG, and the ones that do aren't trying to contend.

    This is the fundamental problem with the tanking plan. It looks like we all agree on not trading guys away for crap value... but where are we going to get good value from?
    I don't think you are looking at legit contenders. Legit contenders rarely have established rookie contract players - and if they do have rookie contract players they are looking to keep them because in all likelihood they have expensive star player as they are contenders.

    I think the teams you need to look at are the teams on the verge of making the playoffs. Cleveland, Detroit, Charlotte come immediately to mind.

    It will be interesting the NBA landscape come the beginning of December. It will be at this point teams decide to fold, hold, or go all in. I am praying Charlotte goes all in and Gay+Lowry are in their sights.
    "Championships are what we live for, now lets go win them."
    Tim Leiweke

    Basketball has clear winners every night --
    except at the draft, which is all homework, politics and chance.

  28. #120
    Raptors Republic All-Star Fully's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,067
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    Charlotte is the team I would target. There's been plenty of reports this summer that they're looking to get out of the basement and the Al Jeff signing backs that up. They have young assets that should interest Ujiri in return. They have potentially three first round picks this summer - Portland's, Detroit's and their own. They have a big expiring contract in Ben Gordon. Give them Lowry/Gay for something like MKG or Walker/Gordon/Detroit & Portland's first rounders. The friends Lowry and Gay get to stay together and the Raptors assume the Bobcats spot in the race to the bottom while picking up some nice assets in the process.
    Last edited by Fully; Thu Aug 8th, 2013 at 01:01 PM.

  29. Like CalgaryRapsFan, mcHAPPY liked this post

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •